Cheap New Starter Large Format; are these any good????

[karl_borowski]

I am an amateur with a great deal of interest in photography. I was

considering the purchase of a large format camera. There are two

cheap kits I have found that look pretty good. Am I being misled?

And if I were to buy one of the two kits below, what other things

would I need to actually take some 4x5 pictures? Here are the two

lits:

Kodak 4 x 5 Master View Camera Ser.#105835 Complete With 19 Inch

Monorail,

Tripod Block, Rise & Tilt Front Standard, Rotating Ground Glass

Spring Back

With Easy Release Lever, Lensboard With Graflex Optar 135mm F4.7 Lens

In Graphex "X" Sync Shutter & Gray Compartment Carrying Case(E++)

$199.

 

Graflex 4 X 5 Speed Graphic Ser.#833037 With 135mmf4.7 Coated Optar

Lens

(Ser.#518043) In X Sync Shutter, Spring Back, Ground Glass & Folding

Focusing Hood, Open Frame And Optical Viewfinders And Hugo Meyer Side

Mounted Rangefinder(E/E+ Cosmetics/Mint- Glass, Significant Wear On

Leatherette Covering And Corrosion On Edges Of Spring Back/Camera

Appears

To Be Working Correctly With Accurate Shutter Speeds) $149.

 

They are both being sold by Cameta Cameras. Has anyone bought from

them before? I would appreciate any help I may get. Thanx for your

time and insights.

[donald_brewster]

As to what you will need, look here:

http://largeformatphotography.info/matos-begin.html

 

As to Cameta Camera, look here:

http://www.photo.net/neighbor/one-subcategory?id=2

 

Either kit will get you started -- they are certainly inexpensive.

[kcrisp]

Karl: This will be a very general response since I don't know what you want to take pictures of. The monorail camera will be more versatile and give you a longer belows and more movements. Can you live with issues of portability on this camera? If so, I'd say get that one. The lens which comes with it has an image circle which just covers 4X5 so you will have a camera that will make lovely negatives but, as is, isn't capable of the movements which are a large part of the reason to use a view camera. If the idea of handheld 4X5 images is intriguing, then the Graflex camera has potential. However, the spring back is less desirable than one with a graflok back, since the graflok back opens the way to lots of accessories and roll film holders. Personally, unless you really want that focal plane shutter, I'd look for a Crown instead of a Speed Graphic since they are thinner and lighter. The Kalart side mounted rangefinder can be adjusted to handle a wide range of lenses, someone who knows the Hugo Myer better than I do can tell you if it can do that as well. I think there may be a problem here. The Graphic will give you front rise, and back tilt, but other movements are more difficult or unavailable. The lens which comes with it, again, is very limiting so movements will only be available if you get a lens with more coverage. I know nothing about Cameta Cameras, the prices don't seem out of line to me. A Crown with a Schneider 135 lens and Kalart rangefinder can be had in good shape for $220 to $280. Make sure both lenses work right at all speeds, fixing that will be $50 or so if they don't. Good luck, and follow through on your desire to be a LF photographer!

[steve_feldman]

Karl,

 

I completely agree with Kevin on the Crown Graphic 4x5. At 50+ years old mine is still a very rugged box and straight forward user friendly. Heck, last week the front door of mine stuck open. Two light taps with a small hammer on the door hinge pin and all was well again. Probably won't do that again in the next fifty years of it's life.

 

Yes, movements are limited, but they do work. For landscape scenics you won't need much. By sure it has the Graflok back as stated above. You will regret a spring back at some point.

 

As for lenses, a 135mm to 150mm are considered "normal". 65mm to 90mm are wide angles. 250mm and longer are good for portraits. Look for "Tele-" on the longer lenses as the Crown can't extend more than about 12" for a 300mm. (General rule of thumb - 3 times focal length of 35mm camera lenses equals the equivelant in LF lens). My personal favorite is a coated Kodak Ektar 203mm f7.7. I call it my "tweener" lens because it's in between a normal and tele length. A very sharp lens. The older 1950's vintage lenses won't cost you arms and legs as most of the modern glass will. That's for later on when you're completely crazy.

 

This camera also meets my personal requirements: It's just plain FUN!

 

Your first 4x5 neg will astound you. Have a great time with whatever you choose.

[ed_balko3]

The Speed Graphic might be the better choice over a Crown Graphic if Karl contemplates using the camera on a tripod at all, say for landscapes.

 

The rear focal plane shutter will allow him to use shutterless barrel mount lenses. Really useful lenses, such a Gerogons, APO Raptars, and Ronars, are available now quite cheaply. I can and do use an 300mm Gerogon for landscape work on a Speed Graphic, using the rear shutter; this focal length is the upper limit given the bellows ordinarily found on a Speed Graphic.

 

There is no question that the lighter Crown Graphic is more convenient for handheld shooting.

[david_brown1]

Either of these cameras will make a good introduction to large format photography. To decide which one is best for your purposes, you must ask yourself what kind of photos you want to take.

 

For portraits and landscapes with little or no movements, the Graphic will do just fine; it's simple, rugged, and transportable. Don't worry about the spring back; unless you really plan on using roll film, it's not worth spending extra for a graflok back, and there are roll holders that work with spring backs.

 

For architectural photography, still lifes, and situations requiring extensive movements, consider the monorail. Monorails are more versitile, are better for extreme close ups, allow for longer lenses, and are more portable than most people realize.

 

In addition to the camera and lens, you'll want some film holders (perhaps six or so to start), a sturdy tripod, a focusing cloth, and perhaps a focusing loupe. A hand held exposure meter of some sort is useful, but not by any means the only way of determining exposure. And beware of those who insist you need a spot meter - they're nice to have, but a combination incident/reflected meter is much more versitile, and I haven't yet found a spot meter to be useful for color work. Also, don't forget to read the larg format section of Photo.net, and maybe someone on the forum could suggest a good book on large format photography.

 

And don't forget the film!

[pete_andrews]

Personally, I'd have reservations about any camera that only had a spring back. Having a spring back means that the camera will only accept double darkslides, and not rollfim, Graphmatic or some Polaroid backs.<br>A type of back that's described variously as "international", "Graflok", or "universal" is more versatile, and allows the easy use of rollfilm and other adapters.<p>Just something to bear in mind.

[david_brown1]

Rest assured, with a spring back, you will be able to use Polaroid backs and graphmatics, but you won't be able to use the graflex style roll film holders. If you want to use roll film you will need a Calumet style roll film holder. If you are planning on using the ground glass (as opposed to a rangefinder) to focus, the Calumet holder is easier to use in any case.