Getting first set up for studio.

[frankie_withers]

<p>Hello everyone<br /> <br /> <br /> This is my first time posting on this forum. My name is Frankie Withers, I have been shooting for about six years. I am graduating college this year with a dual-degree in Photography and classical piano. My ambitions are to start my own studio and teach photography at a university simultaneously.<br /> <br /> That being said, I am trying to acquire my first lighting set up by this summer so I can begin shooting at a higher rate and building a client base. Up to now I have been using my school's studio, outfitted with speedotron power boxes, Calumet power boxes, an assortment of heads, snoots, modifiers, etc. A very basic, clunky, old studio. All of the material on my flickr that is in the studio set has been shot on this equipment (www.flickr.com/frankiewithers).<br /> <br /> The previous summer I had the privelege of interning with Roy Cox at his studio in baltimore (www.4-optic.com). I became familiar with his equipment, a set up consisting of avenger stands, elinchrom style400bx heads (2 for kickers, one overhead on a boom with softbox), all elinchrom modifiers, gels, etc- this man is GOOD. I learned a lot from him.<br /> <br /> I have fallen in love with Avenger. Their stands seem absolutely indestructible, and exude a feeling of supreme quality and confidence. I have chosen to stick with this brand for my heads. I was originally looking at the Elinchrom Style500BXri heads to use in a similar fashion (2 kickers and 1 overhead keylight) to start, but began looking elsewhere and doing some research.<br /> <br /> I have thus come up with this list of equipment which fits my bill almost perfectly.Mind you, this is the bare minimum and I am very likely to add many things to this rig, such as studio fan, reflectors, and additional modifiers, but this is what I want at the very least to start.<br /> <br /> 1.) 1.) Alienbee BX1600 640ws Studio Light<br /> Price: $359.95 x3 = $1079.85 without shipping ($370.24 for one head with shipping included)<br /> www.alienbees.com/b1600.html<br>

<img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hoDU3dyI5M4/SgHJ4_QQ8YI/AAAAAAAAANU/txL0EOkW5Z4/s400/b1600b.gif" alt="" width="200" height="200" /> <br /> <br /> 2.) Alienbee LG4X remote control<br /> Price: $99.95 without shipping<br /> www.alienbees.com/wired.html<br /> <br /> <img src="http://www.alienbees.com/images/lg4x.jpg" alt="" width="230" height="370" /> <br /> <br /> 3.) Savage Pole-vault Background Stand<br /> Adorama price: $98.95 (plus shipping)<br /> www.adorama.com/BMSSPV.html<br /> BHphoto price: $98.95 (plus shipping)<br /> www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/45654-REG/Savage_60115_Polevault_Background_Support.html<br>

<img src="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/45654.jpg" alt="" width="345" height="345" /><br>

4.) Avenger 16.40’ Steel Boom Stand 50 with 4 sections, 3 Risers & 1 Leveling Leg, Chrome Steel<br /> Adorama price: $294.90 (plus shipping)<br /> www.adorama.com/AEA4050CS.html?searchinfo=avenger+boom<br /> BHphotoEDU price: $227.11 (plus $26.90 shipping)<br /> www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/204456-STUD/Avenger_A4050CS_A4050CS_Junior_Boom_Stand.html/mode/edu<br>

<img src="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/204456.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /><br>

<br /> 5.) Avenger 10.76’ C-Stand 33 Kit with Sliding Leg, 40” Extension Arm & 2.5” Grip Head, 3 sections, 2 Risers, Chrome<br /> Adorama price: $164.90 x2 = $329.80 (plus shipping)<br /> www.adorama.com/AEA2033LK.html?searchinfo=5.)Avenger+10.76%E2%80%99+C-Stand+33+Kit+with+Sliding+Leg%2c+40%E2%80%9D+Extension+Arm<br /> BHphotoEDU price: $164.24 x2 = $328.84 (plus $18.75 shipping for one)<br /> www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/243966-STUD/Avenger_A2030DKIT_A2030D_Turtle_Base_Century.html/mode/edu<br>

<br /> <br /> <img src="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/243966.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="500" /><br>

6.) Alienbee grid kit<br /> Price: $39.95 x2 = $79.90 without shipping<br /> www.alienbees.com/hg4x.html<br>

<img src="http://www.alienbees.com/images/beegrids.gif" alt="" width="200" height="200" /> <br /> <br /> 7.) Alienbee Foldable Large softbox 32” x 40”<br /> Price: $129.95 without shipping<br /> www.alienbees.com/foldable_detail.html<br>

Lowest possible total using all suppliers: $2098.95<br /> <br /> Let me know what you guys think.<br /> <br /> Thanks</p>

 

[john_a5]

<p>You might reconsider the chrome stands. I know that many use them, but they can throw back light (or reflect in shiny surfaces) whereas the black ones seem to be a better choice. All of mine are black except the large boom stand--boom itself is black.</p>

<p>Your background stands might be a bit lightweight, depending on what you want to put on them. I have a set very similar to those which I used for short rolls of paper or fabric with still life, but they are marginal for longer rolls and people--would really want to sandbag them very well so that they don't fall on your model! They do offer a great deal of flexibility, however, I sometimes just used C-stands, which I had in tall and short, depending on the need. A better choice for people and wider longer, heavier backgrounds, although I always sandbag anyway, are these http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/BG3910/, much more heavy duty, but you also will want the feet and then need various other accessories to hold the background paper or whatever else, but a good long term investment (you need a lot of accessories with these and may be something to look at down the road, depending on your finances!).</p>

<p>You can never have enough grids, but you might get one set to start with and then check out the Speedo grids to see if they fit your heads. The White Lightning grids are fine except that I found the 10 degree to be much tighter than the Speedotron's. Sometimes that came in handy, but many times it was just too tight. It's nice to have a variety of different ones. You just have to test them because some Speedo's wouldn't fit my WL's.</p>

[frankie_withers]

<p>I am fairly sure the avenger stands come in black. I will look into this. Thanks for the heads up on the reflective properties of the stands, it didn't occur to me. I couldn't find a better boom stand for the price- one that is built as well, with so many optional accessories which I plan on getting (casters, foot-step, etc), crank- if you know of one please let me know. Otherwise I will look into having the stand painted.<br>

I will most definitely be getting sandbags for all stands, hopefully this will be enough for the savage system. The system you suggested does look very nice, the only thing holding me back as of now is my budget.<br>

As for the 10 degree grid being very tight, I was actually picking the grid set for this reason- I am trying, for the time being, to eliminate the need to purchase snoots- the 10 degree grid seems tight enough to eradicate my need for one as of now. I read a review online that showed pics of each grid on a backdrop, I think they will work nicely.<br>

Another thing I wanted to know was whether or not it would make more sense to buy a softbox, or one of these parabolic reflectors: <a href="http://www.alienbees.com/plm.html">www.alienbees.com/plm.html</a><br>

<img src="http://www.alienbees.com/images/plm-test/plm5.png" alt="" width="450" height="400" /></p>

<p>Since you didn't mention them, I will assume that you like the rest of my choices?<br>

Thanks for the reply</p>

 

[john_a5]

<p>For the boom, I like the Super Boom by Manfrotto. http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/BG8391/ Again, more expensive, but has the ability to use the remote cranks to reposition the lights. Manfrotto also has some manual booms, in sections, that are much cheaper and work fine (I have a manual 3 section one as well). I think you can save some money over your choice here, with a Manfrotto, and you may not use a boom as much as you think. The Manfrotto booms are black and should attach to your Avenger stands--you can buy an extra stand this way! (If you get the avenger, don't paint it, at least not right away. If you only shoot people, it might not cause you any problems anyway and doing table top, it might be hidden behind a soft box (you can always cover it with black gaff tape when or if it is an issue.)</p>

<p>As to light modifiers, softbox or umbrellas, I think eventually you will want both. These were my first purchases with my lights 25 years ago. But, what do you use in the studio the most? For myself, I know my softboxes get more of a workout than my umbrellas. At times, I use neither, but at others, either could be invaluable. So, you will just have to see what you need.</p>

<p>One issue for many getting set up is just over buying things not needed and missing a lot of things that will be! Snoots are a good example. Some use them I am sure, but for me, I had two and after a few times, never used them again. If I wanted a snoot effect, I could get a better result with grids and/or blackwrap--and gaff tape, various size clamps (home depot) and clothes pins are indispensable. You will find that foamcore can be your best friend and eventually, an assortment of flags, silks and scrims. So, unless you are opening a production studio right away, buy the essentials and then add to it as you go along, maybe renting various things to try out along the way. Softboxes and umbrellas are very cheap to rent and weekly rentals are always a good deal--plenty of time to test things. But you will also find ways to improvise if you don't have everything you could possibly need right away and that will serve you in the long run!</p>

[chad_hoelzel1]

<p>I wouldn't go for the Alien Bees but for their new Einstein <br>

http://www.paulcbuff.com/einstein/preorder.html<br>

It's not much more and their new wireless system is basically setting a high bar standard for where the photography industry is going. This setup including the Cyber Commander which doubles as a transmitter and a light meter would give you all the control you need. You also saving money because the wireless receivers are only like $30 per light.</p>

<p>Look into this. Better color consistency and 9 STOPS of adjustment.</p>

<p>Chad</p>

[john_a5]

<p>By the way, you can get great and inexpensive sand bags at most theater/film supply houses. I bought some photo ones and they cost me about $100 bucks by the time I had the bag and the lead shot. On the other hand, I got some nice "fillable" ones from a Grip house very inexpensively and just filled them with sand I bought at Home Depot! The nice thing is that these latter ones travel light and can be filled on location if you ever need to fly somewhere you can't rent your grip supplies.</p>

[frankie_withers]

<p>I actually almost constantly use the boom. When I shoot, I almost always have a softbox mounted on it to cover the subject from above, and reflect it back on their face from the bottom (for now using car-windshield-reflectors which work fine, just not very directional). I will see if I can expand my budget to allow some nicer stands.<br>

I guess I'll get the softbox first, I've used umbrellas at school but we didn't have enough strip-boxes and whatnot for me to really get a feel for what I like better.<br>

Clamps are great, I have a few that I use to attach gels to the front of the lights. Gel-holders would be nice but until I have money for luxury little things like that, clamps will do fine.<br>

Foamcore? What is this good for?<br>

I definitely need flags, silks, and scrims. I feel like I will be continuously acquiring these throughout my career. Bear in mind my list above is the bare minimum, I don't really know EXACTLY what I want considering accessories so for now I've left them out.<br>

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I feel pretty comfortable with I have picked out but I will look into Manfrotto's line of lighting stands.</p>

[frankie_withers]

<p>I was looking into the Einsteins but they add a bit too much to my costs, and for my needs as an amateur- I think are a little advanced. I plan on expanding my lighting further in the future, and was going to go with Einsteins and use the B1600s in harmony with them.<br>

Thanks for the tip off on sandbags, I definitely wasn't going to buy "photography sand bags," that even just SOUNDS idiotic. Another thing I am on the look out for is a cheap alternative to the $900 modeling fans... shop fan will probably do fine, with a funnel or something taped onto it.<br>

Thank you all for your helpful advice. Please keep it coming!</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Even if you don't go with the Einsteins right away, consider the newer wireless remote goodies from Buff. They'll work with the Bees, and save you some cable-related annoyances... while also integrating nicely down the road with the smarty-pants new lights.<br /><br />Good on you, bu the way, for avoiding the trap of cheap stands and grip gear early on. That's such a common mistake.</p>

[chad_hoelzel1]

<p>If the einsteins are to expensive consider buying some things like light stands on ebay and use the savings for some better lights. Things like light stands are pretty much indestructible if you buy a good brand and this can save you a lot of money. You just have to decide where it matters to cut corners on cost and where not.</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>Hi Frankie!<br>

First off, I would definitely get an Avenger boom stand, even if that's the only Avenger stand you splurge on right now. Boom stands need to be super sturdy since they're holding your equipment at an angle where it needs to be good and secure. I just got a black Avenger baby boom (about 7 ft. tall, 11 lb. rating fully extended), and I do not regret it!! I agree about the black vs. silver, by the way. For upright stands you could buy other brands to save some money for now and put that toward your lights. I've heard that Buff's stands aren't that great, but there are others you can get that would be fine.<br>

As for the Einsteins, I wouldn't hold my breath on those personally. They've been moving the release date back over and over again since last summer. I think you'd be fine starting with the Bees, as long as you're not hard on your gear. Are you shooting mainly portraits?<br>

Also, I would highly recommend getting the Cybersyncs instead of the wired remote. If you skip the fancy CyberCommander for now and just get the Cybersync trigger and receivers, you'll be much happier without those wires!<br>

If you're doing portraits, softboxes are the best way to go in my opinion, although if you're on a tight budget there's nothing wrong with starting with umbrellas until you can afford the softboxes. I recently got a Buff folding softbox and it's very nice and super easy to put together. Photoflex also makes some nice ones, and I got their 16x22 for my food photography because Buff doesn't make anything that small. Their speedring for Bees/White Lightnings was only about $39.<br>

Let us know what you end up getting, and happy shooting!</p>

[frankie_withers]

<p>My reason for not going for the cybersync is that I cannot adjust the power remotely. One of the main reasons for me getting the LG4X was to adjust the power from where I'm standing. Which means the only way to do this wirelessly would be to use the cybercommander with cybersyncs, all which add a lot more to the LG4X 99.95 price tag. For now I can deal with wires, as a DJ I'm pretty used to wire management.<br>

In the future, once I have money for more extravagant gear, I will definitely be getting a cybercommander, and probably a couple einsteins, but for now I am just trying to start out.<br>

I've decided to go with a softbox for now, although I am beginning to consider an octagonal as opposed to rectangular. Still not sure.<br>

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone. Hopefully I'll be buying my first head at the end of this month.</p>

[frolickingbits]

<p>Very good choice on the Avenger stands-they really do make some of the most durable, reasonably priced stands and grip equipment out there. To be honest, I think you are going to be disappointed going from your school's Speedotron gear to White Lightning or Alien Bees. I own both a couple Speedo packs and 202 heads, and a few White Lightnings, and I spend far more time cursing the White Lightnings-the accessory attachment system is less than confidence inspiring, I have trouble getting the angle locked in to place, especially with a large softbox, and the power level and color balance are not very consistent, especially at low power. If you do get the 'Bees, go with Photoflex softboxes-they are about the same price as the Paul Buff, and better.<br>

Also speaking from experience-the Savage background stand is junk. I own that kit, and the stands are already falling apart, plus the collapsing pole has become stuck together and I can't extend it anymore. If you are someplace you can screw things in to the wall, I think you would have pretty decent luck with some metal conduit mounted on a couple wall brackets, and that would cost all of $20 at Home Depot.</p>

 

[frankie_withers]

<p>The main reason I didn't like the speedotrons was the powerpack configuration. This was a brownline 300w/s powerpack, nothing fancy. It was incredibly annoying to me to have flash power regulated by switches, and not continuously. Recycle times were slow. I can't speak for color consistency because I haven't been shooting long enough to really see beyond what I've shot, but it seemed fine to me. Judging by the work I've seen done with Alienbees, I think I will be alright.<br>

If it's the attachment system that's annoying, that will be something I am willing to deal with for the price. Although as of now, with the way I shoot the only accessories that really get a lot of changing are on the kickers in the back- and I don't forsee any difficulty in changing out grids and snoots. I plan on keeping a softbox on one head (on the avenger boom) installed almost 90% of the time, so hopefully I wont' get too annoyed when I need to change it. We'll see I guess. How does it compare to elinchrom's mounting system? I don't like Calumet either. I mean it was alright... I don't know, overall I guess it's not too big of a deal for me!<br>

Thanks for the tip off on the stand. I'm looking up some manfrotto models right now. Screwing stuff into the wall is unfortunately not an option. I am renting the place, and overall I don't really trust these plastery walls to hold up a backdrop.<br>

I'll repost when I find something I feel is a suitable replacement.</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<p>I am an Alien Bee Avenger user myself. I wouldn't buy all avenger stands only the boom stands. I use the much more portable light weight stands from Calumet. Much easier to pack and take on the road. The Alien Bee background stands are also fine. I also did not like the wired remote, it is unreliable and the sliders start to not work correctly and also causes misfires. I would reduce money spent on stands and spring for the Cyber commander and cybersync wireless triggers. This will give you much more flexabiliy and actually affect the outcome of your work. The Cyber commander is an incredible asset as it allows you to wireless control your light from like 400 ft away. I put light outside windows and around doorways or out in the water at the beach all the time. I would also go with Ab800 over the AB1600 I would rather have 2 - 800's than 1 - 1600 you will be able to spread and shape your light better having more. I use White Lighting 1600 because when I need that much power I need a brighter modeling light and a stronger mount for my 5 and 7 foot Octogon softboxes.</p>

[frankie_withers]

<p>Thank you all for your responses. I have reconsidered my list of gear and have compiled a new list to try and save some money and add capability where it counts:<br>

1.) Alienbees B800 (3)<br>

2.) Alienbees 32x40 foldable large softbox<br>

3.) Avenger baby combi-boom stand (to use as boom)</p>

<p><img src="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/200109.jpg" alt="" width="345" height="345" /><br>

4.) Matthews Hollywood Century C stand grip head kit (x2)<br>

<img src="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images345x345/227746.jpg" alt="" width="345" height="345" /><br>

5.) Alienbees Cybercommander<br>

6.) Alienbees CSR+ receiver (just one, will let the others fire off slaves- will get more if necessary)<br>

7.) Alienbees grid kit (x2)<br>

8.) Savage Background port-a-stand system (this got much better reviews than the others in this price range)<br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=395974&is=REG&mode=edu">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=395974&is=REG&mode=edu</a></p>

<p>This leaves me a lot more money in my projected budget for reflectors, scrims, umbrellas, possibly another head. If I need more than 320w/s, then I think I will make this decision right around when the einsteins come out, which are 640w/s if I'm not mistaken.<br>

What do you think? Thanks!</p>

[daniel_capan]

<p>My comment is off subject as I don't know much about equipment. I am actually an amateur / hobbiest photographer and that is why I'm going to phrase this as a question and not a critique. I was looking at your flickr studio photography album and noticed that most of the photos have the subject's shadow on the background. Is that the correct way to do it ? When taking shots of my little daughter in my studio basement I try not to have any shadows on the background; I personally find them distracting.</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<p>Hello Daniel<br>

The use of shadows to many is deemed artistic. I would not agree that most of frankies flickr photos had the subjects shadow on the background. Again, not to crituque work when not asked, but I think Frankie shows excellent controll of lighting and is able to capture a wide range of different looks Good Work.<br>

Frankie I think you are smart to research before making a large purchase like this. I also believe you will now have tht tools to realy take your talents to the next level. </p>

[frankie_withers]

<p>Yeah I think most of my work doesn't really have much with shadows on the backdrop. What you are looking at is my gaining of experience through time- some of those photos are when I first played with lights, without any knowledge or experience using them. Some are taken using hotlights, not even flashes. My most recent work demonstrates that I now have a much better idea how to control my light (thank you, M.P.) and thus, any shadows from henceforth are due to my own artistic placement, and not a lack of skill.<br>

Back on point though, how's my current gear list? I just ordered one B800, the softbox, and a grid set. Next month is stands, month after is the rest. It's just how my budget works out if you are curious about the order of purchases.</p>

 

[frankie_withers]

<p>Yeah I think most of my work doesn't really have much with shadows on the backdrop. What you are looking at is my gaining of experience through time- some of those photos are when I first played with lights, without any knowledge or experience using them. Some are taken using hotlights, not even flashes. My most recent work demonstrates that I now have a much better idea how to control my light (thank you, M.P.) and thus, any shadows from henceforth are due to my own artistic placement, and not a lack of skill.<br>

Back on point though, how's my current gear list? I just ordered one B800, the softbox, and a grid set. Next month is stands, month after is the rest. It's just how my budget works out if you are curious about the order of purchases.</p>