how to BREAK into the field?

[rebecca_james1]

<p>William and Neil, compelling reading, thank you so much for your incredible input!</p>

[douglas lee]

<blockquote>

<p>William and Neil, compelling reading, thank you so much for your incredible input!</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>And, I'll add Marc and give my thanks to all three. Thank you!</p>

[rebecca_james1]

<p>Re-reading, yes thank you Marc too!</p>

[neilambrose]

<blockquote>

<p>And, I'll add Marc and give my thanks to all three. Thank you!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's a good discussion and I have to say I'm learning a lot from it myself. William's personal networking strategy is something I will be adopting right away, and Marc's last post was immensely helpful - especially on mentoring and advertising. Although I have a different opinion on working for free.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"<strong>Free</strong> dom is just another word for nothing left to lose."... IMO, giving away a talent or hard earned skill smacks of desperation. There are a lot of other avenues to tread before resorting to "Free."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Free can mean all those things. It can also mean a lot of other things - gratitude, accelerated word of mouth, opportunity. I think it can be a valid and pragmatic approach if done the right way.</p>

<p>I did my first wedding for free, and not from any sense of desperation but as a considered business move. As a postgraduate I studied at two of the best photography schools in the UK, and had been fairly successful for several years before I ventured into weddings. I knew exactly what my time was worth and could justify a reasonable day rate - at least in fashion and lifestyle. But I had no experience to speak of in weddings, and didn't feel justified in charging for a service I didn't know I could deliver. I didn't even want to charge for my time, because if the results weren't good then my time would be worthless to the client, irrespective of what my time was worth to me.</p>

<p>My first wedding netted me zero money. But it led directly to eight paid weddings that year (including bridesmaids from that wedding), and powerful word of mouth. I increased my prices over the year in line with experience, and each further wedding led to more. Four years down the track I have never advertised, have bookings into 2012, and my prices are double the average rate for London - none of which would have happened without that first wedding.</p>

<p>Hence free can be an investment, which is why I don't hesitate to recommend it to people.</p>

<p>Although, if working for free, it needs to be on your terms - the right client, the right wedding. I don't advocate just taking pot luck from Craigslist. Interview prospects and work for someone you really like, and who likes you.</p>

[William Michael]

<p >I am not going to weigh in on any one side of the the "shoot it for free or not" conversation – I understand and respect both arguments.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I reckon I give away heaps more than the value of a few Weddings every year anyway.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I think the trick is to choose what to give and in what situation to give it - factoring the position of the client and the position of the vendor and the relationship between the two - these change - having any hard and fast rule and thinking that one rule fits all in this area of marketing and promotion / charity, is counterproductive, IMO. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I have mentioned above an overview of what I do now and what I did not do apropos Weddings, when I was getting the business going.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >But I will add this, as a suggestion: when I do shoot something for free, be it Pro Bono Charity type stuff (as Marc mentioned) or Free as a "sample" to garner more business (as Neil mentioned) - <strong ><em >I always supply the Client with an Invoice for full amount and mark it "with my Compliments - Balance Owing Nil" (or similar words)</em></strong>.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Like I wrote above - <em >there is always a short sincere message that will be pertinent to that particular: event; place; time or person – or, often - all four</em>. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Also, the fact that an Invoice is supplied and recorded on the ledger is important for accounting purposes, and I suggest you get a professional in this area to guide you with the appropriate methodology such that it reaps the best leverage for you.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

<p > </p>

 

[jamesmorophotography]

<p>hey guys,</p>

<p>thanks for all of the responses.<br>

here's an update:<br>

so I posted an ad on craigslist reading "wedding photography giveaway" (to the first 3 people that respond).<br>

on hindsight, I should've qualified it more by request photos and specifying photogenic couples.<br>

I got around 12 responses so far. I haven't committed to anything yet, but I did have been talking to this really handsome young couple about doing their engagement photos and possibly their wedding. They seem really creative & have a lot of potential for great images, so I"m going to work with them for sure.</p>

<p>I have also received several requests saying that if they weren't the top 3 people to get the free wedding photography giveaway, that they were still interested nonetheless and wanted to know my prices (I contacted them all and explained my novice status and provided them with the low end of the going rate for basic coverage in my area and offer longer coverage & a free engagement shoot). currently awaiting the responses.</p>

<p>I looked into the knot a few months ago after seeing their photographers listing, but couldn't get anyone to respond about how to get listed with them. I have heard that advertising with them is very expensive and sometimes hit or miss, and I really dont have extra capital to spend on paid advertisements at this point.</p>

<p>I'm definitely seeing a marketing value of doing a few select weddings (on my terms and meeting my criteria). It seems like a good way to penetrate the market, and I'm surprised at how many instantaneous responses I received, a few of which even inquired about how much I charge. I just need to find some attractive couples with weddings in the next few months so I dont have to wait till the fall to get my portfolio going...</p>

[William Michael]

<p >It seems that within a short time you have got some things happening and it seems that you are both surprised and also happy with the situation thus far. I encourage you to continue you active approach and I again mention that you should not limit yourself to one marketing method or promotional facet.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >One element this forum lacks, IMO is the ability to effectively garner feedback once advice has been given. It is only by the good nature of the Recipient that is done. What is very useful to other Novices, who will ask similar questions, is the experience and fresh feedback of "what I just did with this advice". <em >I for one would be interested in an update and your broader view of your experiences and the path this all takes, when you have three signed Wedding Contracts.</em> </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Good Luck with it and I await you response and views, when you have three Weddings in the bag.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

<p > </p>

 

[dougscroggins]

<p>I will be doing my first weddings this year and although not free, they will likely aid my client much more than my wallet. I just wanted to say that via this thread I have been elevated from "a fan" off William W's, to "a HUGE fan". Your in depth and comprehensive explanation of your approach is priceless sir, and I cannot thank you enough for being such a benefit for those of us trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. God bless!</p>

[jamesmorophotography]

<p>as of now, I've received 4 requests stating that they are willing to pay me for my services and/or asking me how much I charge. I posted the ad several days ago. So any potential brides responding at this point pretty much acknowledge that they missed the "first 3 to respond" wedding giveaway, and are now asking about my pricing, nonetheless. <br /> <br /> Interesting, I wish I wouldn't have listened to the advice of people on sites like these telling me to stay away from craigslist and not allow myself to get lumped in with the "craigslist photographers"... I'm going to tap this resource for all its worth.<br /> <br /> 5 weddings at $1000 is way better than $1000 for an expensive knot.com ad and months of waiting for one potential big spender bride.</p>

<p>Here's to me successfully landing my first paying wedding. Go Me! :D</p>

[jamesmorophotography]

<p>My advice to people in my situation desperately looking for second shooter positions and ways to build a wedding portfolio: suck it up. offer to shoot a few weddings for free on craigslist. Stop wasting time chasing "experienced pros". they only got that way through experienced, regardless of whether or not they were paid for the experience. sink or swim. do it.<br>

Assuming you've put some work into building up part of a wedding portfolio, the craigslist ad should generate enough responses to get some portfolio building weddings and even some people interesting in paying for your services. Just be sure to limit the offer to a few select clients so that anyone else responding becomes someone that you can turn into a paying client.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Different strokes for different folks.</p>

<p>Perhaps s simple "thank you" to all who responded ... with a "here's what seems to work for me" post would have sufficed?</p>

<p>People with different opinions are just trying to help, there is zero profit in doing that for them ... so publicly discounting their advice seems a little odd.</p>

<p>Here's wishing you every success.</p>

<p>Marc</p>

<p> </p>

[mitch_w1]

<p>Marc, you took the words right out of my mouth.</p>

[jamesmorophotography]

<p>Im not discounting the advice about where to advertise or how to use business cards and so forth.<br>

What I am saying is that first-hand experience (do it yourself) trumps second-hand experience (second shoot/assist)--less restrictions, more creative control over the shots you want to take, less chasing around and trying to flatter the pros into letting you assist them when you could be spending that time building your portfolio instead of wondering why people wont respond to your emails or phone calls.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Just two further observations:<br>

<br>

One of the values of working with (or even harvesting an harmonious network of) "experienced pros" is that when that very big first mistake happens, it happens on their time, their turf and it is their ultimate responsibility to clean up the mess - or to support you.<br>

<br>

In this regard, one of the elements of building a good business is to not break bridges; be polite; and to double check all the angles before you go to press, especially on the public forum and under your own business name.<br>

<br>

WW</p>

<p > </p>

 

[mitch_w1]

<p>James - I'm not sure that first hand experience trumps second-hand experience at all when you're first starting out. In my experience second shooting is essentially an intense, real world wedding workshop. Yes you're shooting, but you're also observing how the primary photographer works and learning the ebb and flow of the wedding. I haven't experienced any of the restrictions you mention but I have learned a tremendous amount second shooting. That's not to say you can't bypass second shooting and just jump right into being the primary photographer. I shot my first wedding without having ever second shot for anyone else - and did a passable job of it. But I will still take the opportunity to second shoot whenever possible because, for me, it is a wonderful learning and skill building opportunity. I say just keep an open mind</p>

[fotografz]

<p>I'd second what Mitch said.</p>

<p>Previously, I mentioned that I had never worked for someone else. However, I did make mistakes that could have been avoided had I learned the ropes a bit better. Some mistakes are just fine because you learn from them. However, if it's a big goof up, then the client pays for it more than you do ... and they do not benefit from any learning curve.</p>

<p>When I was an aggressive young art director, my mentor gave me the best piece of advice ever ... "90 % of this job is getting your @$$ (behind) out of a jam" ... his words came back to me in spades when I started shooting weddings.</p>

<p>Besides, all of this is speculative ... presumably, James hasn't shot job one yet. Talking about doing, and actually doing, are two different things entirely.</p>

<p>So, the best we can do is offer the best of luck, and wish for Murphy to be on holiday when you shoot.</p>

<p> </p>