MF for B&W landscapes. Must be light. Bronica SQ or TLR?

[terry_rory]

Hi. I want to do B&W rural (English) landscapes on MF 6x6 format. (A

little colour neg as well but not very often.)

 

Because I walk all of my landscapes , my normal kit is kept to 2 x

35mm SLRs and 3 prime lenses plus filters and a Manfrotto tripod

which all fits into a Billingham Hadley (except the tripod).

 

Any MF gear I substitute on a trip will be kept to one MF body and

one (normal focal length) prime and a couple of filters.

 

I have a little previous experience with a Rolleicord VA2 and a

Yashicamat 124G and wondered if anyone out there has moved up

(across?) to a Bronica SQA or B from a TLR?

 

Bearing in mind I will only ever have the one focal length of lens ,

am I better off getting another good condition Rollei TLR? (I

foolishly sold mine a while ago.)

 

The difference between an f3.5 and an f2.8 lens is not a concern. I

will shoot between f5.6 and f11 most of the time anyhow.

 

The Bronica SQA/B looks good to me but is it reliable / reasonably

robust or does it have to travel everywhere by car in a padded

Aluminium box?

 

I can do without kit that has to be featherbedded. It will not get

beat up/dropped but it will be going for very long walks in a camera

bag. (The Rolleicord was good at this.)

 

Any other suggestions for portable 6x6 MF lens / body that is compact

and light and at least as good as a Rollleicord VA2 but not

stratospheric in price would be great news. Thanks.

[audidudi]

I moved up from a Minolta Autocord to a Bronica SQ-Ai with an 80mm lens and was quite happy with the results. Although it was larger and heavier, I didn't find it particularly burdensome to carry and given what you can buy a new one for in the UK, I'd be inclined to go that route if I were you.

 

(FWIW, I later moved up from the Bronica to a Toyo 23G, a medium-format view camera, because I found that I needed movements to get the most out of my landscape work.)

[colmmccarthy]

I use a Mamiya C330, a couple of lenses, paramender and a tripod for my b&w landscape work. Also carry along a 35mm with a zoom for those incidents where a TLR just won't cut it. I can walk for miles quite happily with this setup. I leave the TLR mounted on the tripod and carry it over my shoulder. People complain about the weight of the Mamiya but they're just a bunch of wussies.

[rich815]

Jeffrey, can you elaborate on what was it that the Bronica gave you that you felt the Minolta lacked? I'm thinking along the same route here....

[kevin_ing]

Just wondering... What kind of filters are you planning on using?

 

For B&W landscape work, various colored filters, polarizer, or grad ND?

 

A polarizer or grad ND filter is somewhat troublesome with a TLR. Not impossible (I used to do it with my Mamiya C3), but not exactly easy and your results may not always be what you expect.

 

Otherwise, if you're not always using polarizers or grad ND filters and if you only plan on using the normal lens, a good TLR would probably serve you well. They can usually be had cheaply and are simple in design compared with SLRs (less to go wrong). Also, if you like to shoot with a red filter on, it's easier to focus the TLR since you're not losing three stops of light on the viewing lens.

 

But if you do want to go the SLR route, the Bronica SQ series is quite good. Mine have been reliable and have survived long camera bag trips without complaint. With the WLF (no prism) the SQ, filmback and normal lens is also fairly light.

 

It's a pretty big preference thing, I guess. Either way you should do fine.

[terry_rory]

On my 35mm B&W landscape work its Yellow or Red or R72 for Infra Red.

 

It would be the same on the MF whether TLR or not. Tri-x at 200 - 250 with a yellow filter (pulled 1 stop in ID-11)

 

Ilford HP5 and Kodak HIE (or Ilford SFX) And T400CN occasionally.

 

No polariser on MF. (Leave that for my 35mm SLR) No Graduated either. Dont like em.

 

Oh and thanks for all the ideas and opinions so far.

[bob_chong]

Expect an SQ body, standard lens, back, and WLF to run over 1.5 kg (or 3.3 lbs).

[mediumformat]

Sounds like you will use different filters quite regularly, in which case an SLR is certainly easier to deal with. However, TLRs like Mamiya use standard screw-on filters, which is more convenient than bayonet mounts (but you can buy bayonet step-up/step-down converters that allow you to use standard filters).

 

SLRs and TLRs have their own unique advantages and disadvantages, and your personal comfort and shooting style must be included in the plus/minus formula. My small camera bag always has both a Mamiya TLR and a Rolleiflex in it, and it's not too heavy for me. Frankly I like the versatility of the TLR and no worry about locking up the mirror and carrying extra lenses.

[jay_.]

If you are currently carrying 2 35mm SLRs and 3 lenses comfortably, you would be fine with a 6x6 SLR and 2 or even 3 lenses. A Hasselblad, A12 back, 50-80-150 lenses is not that heavy, it's just bulky. I see no point in buying the Bronica (about the same weight and size)unless you intend to use multiple lenses. I also see no point in the Mamiya TLR's other than price, as they are just as heavy as the SLR kit but less efficient. If a single lens is fine with you, then a Rollei (2.8 or 3.5 Planar or Xenotar)is a great choice. I have 2 of them and I love them. But for landscapes I prefer a choice of lenses. Recently I acquired a Fuji GA645Zi with a 55-90 zoomlens, and I am very happy with it. Light and convenient. Right now another good choice might be the Mamyia 645E, which is available with the standard lens for around $600.

[kevin_ing]

Trevor,

 

If you like to shoot IR sometimes, a TLR definitely has its advantages -- you can leave the IR filter on and still see what you're trying to shoot... well, hopefully the TLR has a focusing scale for IR.

 

And, Bob's right... a Bronica SQ series body with WLF, lens and film back does weigh over 1.5kg. But I guess to me that's "lightweight" since I usually carry a set that weighs a LOT more.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[terry_rory]

Thanks. So filters. (Kevin , RJ Fox , Jay) I have just discovered (to my unending joy!) the price of 67mm filters for the Bronica. Hah!

 

Well it looks like I would be buying only a UV and an Orange and that would be it. (I know I could get a Cokin system but they going too much against my ideal of a light , non-cumbersome / stripped down / one focal length , minimalist MF setup. (With all those gizmo's hanging off the end of a lens.)

 

As for Rolleiflex / Cord , well its looking increasingly tempting isnt it? (And I have used a 'cord VA2 with Schneider Xenar f3.5 before so I will have the familiarity I guess.) And Bay fit filters seem to be everywhere on the net so I could probably get what I need easy enough. (Except the R72 IR which would get my existing 55mm stuck on with Blu Tack maybe??!! hehe) Oh why did I sell that Rolleicord?

 

Hmmm Hasselblads? No there has to be a limit. I couldnt bring myself to sell my daughters just to get photography kit.

 

Weirdly enough , with my 35mm kit I consider my basic landscape set-up to be 25mm (or 28mm dependant on mood) 50mm and 135mm and yet in 6x6 the work (of others) that I have admired most came from the use of a 'normal' f/length. (Example 1... Bill Brandt in 'Literary Landscapes' before he went REALLY wide with his custom brownie in his human landscapes later in life. Example 2... E. Chambre Hardman)

 

Brandt , Chambre Hardman , both Rolleiflex users. I must think this out a lot more.

 

Thanks for bearing with me people. Appreciate it. I am leaning towards the Rollei TLRs for sure. And you have helped.

[emile_de_leon9]

I love my TLR's.... but for outdoors landscapes in B&W I always lean towards a 6x9 or bigger neg. The 6x6 neg seems to lack the grainless beauty of 6x9 where trees and rocks, etc., are concerned. A nice portable camera is the Brooks Veriwide with 47mm f8 SA. Slightly larger than a Leica and a 6x10 neg for grainless 30" prints. Your Yashica and Rolliecord are VERY HIGH resolution lenses from f8 to f11 or so.At f8 the Rolliecord IV-V is unbeatable.You probably will not not find a better lens anywhere, anytime than the Xenar at f8 for out and out resolution. Or go with a Mamiya 6 or 7.

[jay_.]

>>Hmmm Hasselblads? No there has to be a limit. I couldnt bring myself to sell my daughters just to get photography kit.<<

 

Hassy's aren't that expensive. The sale of just one daughter ought to cover a nice outfit, and then you wouldn't need to hire a photographer for the other ones' weddings ;>)

[godfrey]

Rollei TLRs make very good cameras for landscape, as do Hasselblads. I like

working with 6x6 format. Currently, I'm on the Isle of Man, shooting with a

Hasselblad 903SWC for landscape and such, shooting with a Sony digicam

for sports and other stuff. It's working out great, but I'm itching to see the hassy

films... Digicams spoil you with instant gratification.

 

Godfrey

[todd frederick]

This is totally my opinion based on experience.

 

1. If you do not need interchangable lenses or interchangable backs, and want one of the finest lenses ever made, light enough for carry over your shoulder without needing post-photo physical therapy, put it in your coat pocket, and get a total camera unit that cost much less than a Hassleblad film back, buy a...

 

Fuji GS645S with a stunning 60mm lens, often for less than $500 used.

 

Reairs?: Not to worry...Camera Wiz is a Fuji expert.

 

Check out eBay under Fuji GS645S. These are wonderful.

 

2. My next suggestion, which is what I bought last week, is the Mamiya 645e at the discounted price of $699 through B&H and others, with lens, insert, strap, and hood...absolutely wonderful! $799 with power winder and grip.

 

3. My third suggestion is to buy a vintage folder: Agfa Isolette, Zeiss Nettar, Voigtlander Perkeo, etc. I have a very nice 518/16 Zeiss Nettar for sale with case, orange filter, and rangefinder for $65 plus $6.50 shipping. This is a true coat pocket camera! I'm using my Perkeo and I really only need one!

[audidudi]

<P>Richard, my main motivation in buying an SQ-Ai to replace my Autocord was the assumption that its modern lenses (I ultimately owned three of them) would outperform the Autocord's '50s vintage lens. My secondary motivation was the assumption I would be able to make better photos if only I had more than one lens to choose from...</P>

 

<P>As it turned out, while I was indeed deliriously happy with the SQ-Ai's performance, it <I>didn't</I> outperform my Autocord enough for me to justify the nearly 30x cost differential and I decided to sell it, buy another Autocord as a spare and continue shooting with those instead. I truly believe I made the right decision (although there are times when I wish I still had my three-lens Bronica outfit around) and during this Autocord-only period, I did what I think is some of my best work to date.</P>

 

<P>This arrangement worked well enough for a while but I eventually realized that I really needed movements for the sort of photography I was trying to do and bought myself an inexpensive Galvin 2x3 view camera as an experiment. Although I still enjoy shooting with my Autocords (and very much covet their indefinable image quality), I've really come to appreciate the control that a view camera offers when it comes to tightly composing images and correcting perspective quirks and for now, with the subjects I'm shooting, I can't think of any other camera type that would meet my needs as well.</P>

 

<P>Of course, if I were still bucks up, as I was before I met Paula and her two kids, then I'd probably still own the Bronica even if I didn't have reason to use it very often. Unfortunately, I'll probably have to make do with my view camera and two lenses until they finish growing up and move out...</P>

[kaiblanke]

Hi Trevor,

 

I have a Rolleiflex Automat with an uncoated Tessar which just works wonderful for landscapes. Though Todd is right, there are many other choices like the small folders which also have great lenses or the Mamiya which is very tempting for the price. However, it is no 6*6.

Rolleicords or older Rolleiflexes are not that expensive as are those little folders, so why not just spend $100 and try it out ? You should get a user Rolleicord for this and of course one of the folders Todd mentions. There is only one thing I do not like about the folders: Though they are light, have good lenses etc, they just do not have that professional look. But who cares about that ?

[terry_rory]

OK after a day and night I have decided on a 6x6 TLR and I have located an EXC++ condition professionally overhauled Rolleicord VB with case for £150 here. (In a reputable online UK dealer that I trust.)

 

Thanks to everyone for their ideas and help. Todd you are everywhere! :-)

 

I may even go out on trips with 120 equipment only in my bag. Rolleicord + Zero 2000 6x6 pinhole that I have 'customised' for IR by attaching an Ilford SFX gel filter inside it using Ilford SFX 120. I will re-learn the joys of metering light again(!) with my trusty hand held meter. (Too humble a brand to mention here but it works.)

 

And will , once again discover (occasionally) the superiority of 120 Reala over the 35mm Reala and the pleasures of a 12" x 12" HP5 print. (Also a bit 'choked' at times on 35mm)

 

Another small benefit of the Rolleicord (any old TLR really) is people coming and saying.. "cool old camera , my grandad had one like that" and being able to take photos of people in the street without lifting a camera to the eye. just rest the camera on the beer gut and align body towards subject and use that silent shutter.

 

I am looking forward to it.

 

Thanks again for help.

[godfrey]

<i> cool old camera </i>

<br><br>

I got that when I put the SuperWide on a tripod taking pictures the other day.

Helped to get some photos ... use anything at hand, yes. ;-)

<br><br>

I'd forgotten about the Fuji 645s ... funny, I still own one! ... but they do well for

lots of stuff. I'm using the hassys and the 'flex more and more though, so i'll

likely put my GA645 up for sale soon. If anyone's interested, just let me know.

<br><br>

Godfrey <a href="mailto:ramarren@bayarea.net">ramarren@bayarea.net</a>

[mediumformat]

Trevor, I'd love to hear how you feel about the Zero 2000 pinhole, as I'm ready to buy one myself, fascinated by the pinhole images I've seen on the web (and on Zero 2000s own website). Do you have any pinhole images to post?

 

You can't go wrong with Rolleiflex/Cord. You may want to invest in a new viewing screen since it can dramatically enhance the ease of use and focusing (see Maxwell screens). Good luck and enjoy your Rollei.

[terry_rory]

I guess its' a little 'off topic' to talk about the Zero 2000 pinhole but yes its great fun. Very basic , elemental photography almost. The images are not world beaters but do have a certain 'something' , an other wordliness about them that I cannot get with a Softar filter on my Contax SLR lenses or deliberate use of out of focus. (I want to try the zone plate version next! Somewhere spooky like Avebury stone circle in Wiltshire hehe.)

 

I dont have the requisite kit for downloading images (scanners / photoshop etc.) I am all film based in my work. Maybe one day.

 

Digital has'nt tempted me because I am still catching up on everything I have'nt done with film yet. I have only been a keen photographer for some 5 years and funds have limits and time is not elastic.

 

There will be time enough for digital when it becomes illegal or impossible to do otherwise. Until then I am enjoying myself too much experimenting. I love all the different film 'flavours' and limitations and formats and suprises.

 

The Rolleicord will be a return to TLR (I had one a few years ago , as I mentioned earlier but sold it cos I was still on such a steep learning curve with photography in general that it got neglected. This time will be different. Thanks again for all your assistance.)

 

Also in the pipeline is Voigtlander RF (purchased already) and a pre-war Summar or Elmar lens (for a whole other project entirely.)

 

I even have a couple of P&S cameras (Old olympus trip 35 and a Yashica T5) and a Leica C11 APS (boo hiss!) so as you can see I am very catholic about trying out all sorts of cameras in all sorts of ways.

 

OK I have only been on topic here with the Zero 2000 6x6 and the Rolleicord so thanks for your tolerance with the rest. Have a good weekend everyone.