Nikon 600mm VR AFS - Flare Issues

[senthil1]

<p>Shun - Not sure who to contact at Nikon to get an answer, and 'm not even sure that they wud accept there's a problem! I'll anyways contact them; do you think I shud call general tech support? Yeah, an option is to rent another 600mm and compare directly. Not sure how expensive that is.</p>

<p>Ivan - Front element dust is minimal. Basically, this lens is brand new, bought last month.</p>

<p>Shun and Arthur Y - I checked the TC's against a bright "point" light source at home. TC14E (which I used with the lens) does show a little bit more flaring than TC14EII on it own; I hope that's at least part of the problem. I tried pointing 600mm VR but the diaphragm is stopped down. I remember on older non-G lenses, without attaching the camera u can change the aperture using the ring, but on these G lenses 'm not sure how to open it up to check the lens elements. Any suggestions?</p>

<p>Front element coating should be pristine as this new. Haven't put anything on it. The black felt on the inside of hood is fine. Filter slot has the std NC filter.</p>

<p>Arthur R - Not sure where there can be light leak. I doubt that's the case.</p>

<p>Even analyzing the images, I haven't come to possible causes and solutions. Not sure whether I can talk with Nikon and see whether they can replace the lens (as it is new) and about 5 wks since I bought. has anyone tried it in the past?</p>

[arthuryeo]

<p>Just go to http://www.NikonUSA.com/ and go under the Service & Support.<br>

Create an account and submit the question. Ask them what to do. They will probably go thru some initial screening questions and answers. If they cannot figure it out, they will ask you to send it in. Since you're in Boston, you will have to send it to the Melville, NY Service Center.</p>

<p>Make sure to label your lens with your name and address stringed to the lens. They do misplace stuffs!</p>

 

[senthil1]

<p>Thanks Arthur. Just called Nikon tech support. They asked me to send sample pics showing the problem. I'm gonna send the ones that I posted here. They said, that I might have to send it in for service. So lets see what they think about those pics.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Sen, I am glad that you got in touch with Nikon tech support, and they want sample images from you. It looks like you are making good progress.</p>

<p>On most Nikon F mount lenses, there is a spring-loaded mechanical lever on the rear end of the lens for opening up the aperture diaphragm. On a G lens, the natural position is to close the aperture all the way down. Gentally press on that lever with a finger to open the lens aperture up.</p>

<p>If you need to send the lens back to Nikon for repair (or for that matter sending anything valuable in for repair), it is a good idea to attach a label with your name and phone number onto the barrel as Arthur points out. He learned that the hard way.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>I'm still hoping its something I can find out myself without sending the lens to Nikon service. Or hoping its just TC (wishing thinking). It is annoying that a new lens of this price might have to be sent for service right away. Planning on doing more testing this weekend, comparing 600mm vs. 200-400mm with and without TC14E and TC14EII.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot folks. Will keep you updated.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Hi folks,</p>

<p>I have sent the sample images to Nikon tech support; awaiting their reply. If in case they ask me to ship the lens to them, can I send it along with the replacement wimberley foot, or should I change it to the original foot? Just want to make sure so Nikon dont say that my warranty is void since I changed the foot!!! Any experiences?</p>

<p>Thanks,<br>

Senthil</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I would put the original foot back on before you ship it, and I would remove any other unnecessary attachments. I have no concern that Nikon USA would make any silly excuse to void your warranty.</p>

<p>It is very unlikely that this will happen, but just in case Nikon determines that your lens is defective and decides to replace it with another one, you may never see your current lens again. You sure don't want to attach anything onto it because you might never get it back.</p>

<p>I had a discussion with John Shaw last year. He told me that his wife's 200-400mm/f4 AF-S developed some problem during a trip to Kenya. (Yes, once again, it happend at Masai Mara; the environment there is certainly not friendly to long lenses.) They shipped it back to Nikon, and Nikon said they had never seen this particular problem before. They had to ship the lens back to Japan for further investigation and gave Mrs. Shaw a new replacement lens.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Thanks, a very good point, Shun. Makes a lot of sense; didn't think of it that way. If I've to send it in, will send it with original "accessories." and remove lenscoat.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>And I guess, Nikon is going to be nicer to John Shaw than to me :-) They might offer to replace the lens for him but may not do it for others! In any case, I really want them to fix this problem. Will update on the outcome.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Surprising to see sun out in Boston today. Did a few test shots comparing 200-400mm and 600mm VR +/- TC14E & TC14EII.<br>

<br /> Again, significant flare with 600mm. There was no difference when using the TC14E vs. TC14EII. Without TC there was more flare, as expected.<br>

<br /> The 200-400mm also showed flare, but less than that with 600mm, when set at equivalent angle of view. Interestingly, I didn't notice flare on this lens on my previous trip in Sep when I was shooting with D300 and TC-14EII, in very similar backlit conditions to that during this trip with 600mm.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Another question -</p>

<p>I've packed the lens to ship to Nikon service center. Should I send the booklet, 1-yr warranty and extended warranty cards along with the lens?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Sen, again, unless you would like to give Nikon a chance to lose some of your accessories, I would mail the absolute minimum amount of stuffs with your lens. That means all the original packaging to protect the lens, a copy of the receipt from B&H, the warranty card. Again, I would put a label sticker with your name and phone number onto the lens barrel.</p>

<p>Nikon repair does not need the instruction booklet to fix your lens, right?</p>

<p>BTW, could you let us know what Nikon USA reaction was after they had seen your sample images and what prompted you to ship the lens back to them for repair?</p>

<p>I would also appreciate it if you can let us know what the final diagnostic is and how the repair goes. I would like to think that the 600mm/f4 VR does not have any flare problems in general; something is wrong with your particular lens.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Hi Shun,</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for the reply. True, I want to send only the absolute minimum but in the event that Nikon might replace the lens, I thought that I would be obligated to send everything that came with the package. Yeah, will remove all the sundries!</p>

<p>BTW - as u and Arthur had suggested, I did put a label with my name, address, ph # and Nikon ref # onto the barrel of the lens with a rubber band.</p>

<p>Initially, when Nikon saw my pics from Mara showing flare, they told that all of these lenses flare when shot into the sun. When I told them that it was too excessive and that my friend didn't have the problem, Nikon asked me send new samples shot in controlled conditions; I shot a few using D700 + 600mm VR with and without TC14E and TC14EII. When they saw it, they asked me to send the lens. So I presume that they acknowledge the lens might have a problem. BTW - I also sent Nikon (which I'll post now) 2 pics from my friend shot in very similar conditions with TC14E + 600mm AFS-II (have his permission).</p>

<p>I will certainly post the outcome. Hopefully, they fix or replace the lens. Yeah, I haven't heard anyone on the web complain about flare on this lens. Its probably just this lens.</p>

<p>BTW - I can post the whole conversation that I had with Nikon on their service forum, but I'm not sure whether that's ok (as per Nikon's and photo.net's policy). Please lemme know.</p>

<p>Thanks a lot,<br /> Senthil</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Pic shot by my friend with<br /> D700 + TC14E + 600mm VR AFS-II<br>

Please compare it to Bat Ear Fox pic that I shot at the same time (posted earlier in this thread).</p><div></div>

[senthil1]

<p>Another pic shot by my friend with<br>

D700 + TC14E + 600mm VR AFS-II</p><div></div>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Thanks Sen. I think at this point you have given us sufficient information. Since Nikon USA repair service asked you to ship the lens to them for further checking, that means they too feel there is a *potential* problem that they need to have the lens in their pocession to check it out themselves.</p>

<p>Again, it would be great if you can keep us updated on the final outcome. E.g., Nikon USA may:</p>

<ul>

<li>Tell you that your lens is within specs and the flare is expected or the flare is due to the lens being used under extreme conditions</li>

<li>Repair your lens - in that case it would be nice to know what the problem is.</li>

<li>Replace your lens with a new one - possible but very unlikely</li>

</ul>

[senthil1]

<p>Thanks Shun. Yeah, I don't think they will replace it. I just hope that they acknowledge a problem with this lens and fix it, rather than come back and say that its expected/normal. Whatever Nikon decides to do, I'll keep you all posted.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>I have asked many questions already. Still another q. - hopefully the last one for now :-)<br>

I called fedex for get info about shipment insurance. They said that if its a camera/lens (or jewelery) they don't cover for above $5000. I'm not sure what to do about insurance and don't feel comfortable in sending it without insurance either.<br>

<br /> Does anyone have experience on this? Thanks a lot in advance.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>I'm sorry Fedex said they wont cover for more than $500 (not $5000) for camera/lens.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>B&H and Nikon ship expensive camera equipment all the time. E.g. once Nikon sent me a $8000 D3X to review. Why don't you check with them and perhaps UPS also?</p>

<p>How did B&H ship the lens to you in the first place?</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Thanks Shun. I checked with UPS. They said they will take anything as long its not hazardous and pay for insurance for the declared value. So just shipped it to Nikon via UPS.</p>

<p>BTW - I think B&H sent to me by UPS. Seems weird that Fedex said no. I remember sending 200-400mm in past via fedex, insured and they accepted it at that time. Not sure whether it is just this fedex store that gave me wrong info. The fedex store that I usually use is closed Sundays.</p>

[ivan_j._eberle1]

<p>Sen, I'm a Nikon tele guy these days myself, after shooting wildlife images professionally with a variety of gear for three decades. Now I certainly hope that if it does turn out that you've gotten hold of a defective lens that it gets swiftly and satisfactorily remedied. That said, I'm not so convinced you possess a flawed optic.<br>

At this remove-- judging solely from the pics you've posted-- I see similar atmospheric flare in your friend's shots with the AFS II version. (BTW, your cheetah shot is damn fine considering the tough lighting conditions on the first major trip out with a new lens).<br>

What it looks like to me is that there was abundant dust hanging in the air and it was subject to tele compression. The haze is just so thick here as to be nearly monochromatic with atmospherically induced flare, first and foremost, and that's an unfortunate turn of events for you given the limited time window of your trip. Perhaps, too, this compression is more than you're used to seeing, at this focal length. Consider that haze compression with the longer 600mm on FF does NOT equate to 400mm on the 200-400VR on a DX. It's an artifact of raw focal length, not effective focal length.<br>

Combine this with sun grazing your front element at an oblique angle (the internal lens element edges being visible on your buff shot confirm this. Perhaps the optical flat filter attached (I assume the 600VR has one, like my 200-400VR) had a little external dust landed upon it, as well, and maybe you also induced some reflectivity from that improvised hood extension on card stock.Your friends's lenses simply didn't have the sun grazing their front elements at an oblique angle, perhaps only by virtue of where they were seated inches or feet away-- yet you did. The angle of incidence that caused it to strike yours and not theirs obliquely, might have been very different by shifting position very slightly. Many times in the heat of the moment I have failed to note this myself. If you're going to have the sun in your shot, to not have flare you've got to do so pretty much straight on unless you've got an extremely simple lens design. To pull it off, your lens must also be scrupulously clean.<br>

As I see it, the aggregate of these flare sources could easily account for everything you've so far described and shown.<br>

I mention all this not to take you to school here on the forum, but because you're about to spend a great sum of money on shipping and insurance and be without your bodacious new lens for a period time--maybe only to hear something similarly unsatisfying from a Nikon rep, and this all may turn into a snipe hunt for you. Only UPS wins if that be the case.<br>

My suggestion? The lens has a 5 year warranty. You'll have plenty of time to resolve this. Shoot with it abundantly in clearer atmospheric conditions, adding back the variables like the hood extension one by one, to see if you can replicate the problem. If you can't, you're home free and the flare was likely a fluke of the conditions of your shoot.</p>

[senthil1]

<p>Hi Ivan,</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for the post. I certainly agree with your explanation of possible environmental dust as a cause of flare. However, on my return to Boston, I cleaned the front element of the little bit of dust specs with microfiber cloth and I did test shots. I saw flare even when the lens was pointed upto 30 deg off the sun. In fact, Nikon asked me send the lens to them mainly after they saw the test shots.</p>

<p>In any case, UPS did win. They charged me $183 to send from Bos to Melville! I'll post a few of the test pics taken with D700 + 600mm VR +/- TC14E and TC14EII. Please lemme know what you think. I sent it because I want to go back to Africa early next year.</p>

<p>Regards</p><div></div>

[senthil1]

<p>abcd</p><div></div>

[senthil1]

<p>Hi All,</p>

<p>Back again, with update on the outcome....</p>

<p>Nikon sent the lens back about 10 days ago. A note said that they couldn't replicate the problem, that they cleaned and checked, and everything is working perfectly.</p>

<p>I tested the lens under similar conditions from my apt.; tried to replicate same angles with respect to the sun. It seems like the flare is slightly better but still there. Not sure whether that is limit for this model. I guess, the only way to test is to rent another 600mm VR and test them side-by-side. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.</p>

<p>In any case, I'm going back to East Africa, this time TZ in 2 wks or so. Hope to test it on the field.</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>