Should the hours be consecutive?

[jessica_dixon]

<p>I offer a certain number of hours in each of my packages, ranging for 2 to 12 hrs. Should I allow clients to split the time or only offer consecutive hours?<br>

Keep in mind that in my area, weddings are like all day events that start between noon and 3, and last until around midnight. I've had a few people who think its pricey to go with a package that has more hours and they ask if they can split the time. And I have done it before, allowed the time being split, but I didn't like that it turned into an all-day event when all they paid for was like 5 hours.</p>

[e._hughes]

<p>Yes! The hours should be consecutive! What are you possible going to do in the time in between????</p>

[jessica_dixon]

<p>I usually just go back home if its nearby, or just go eat something. I don't like splitting the time but it seems thats all brides are looking for.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Traditionally, wedding photography coverage has been consecutive, including travel time between locations. What you do is up to you and your market, however. Just keep in mind that you really can't do anything else, most of the time, between paid sessions, so you are really losing out financially. You might want to consider a split fee--like the additional cost of an hour of coverage for each split.</p>

[William Michael]

<p >Consecutive. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I didn't usually work Weddings on a "time" basis, as I have mentioned to you before - but for any commercial gig the "time” is: "from home base to return to home base" </p>

<p > </p>

<p >So applying that logic to your Wedding Packages: if, for example a B&G wanted two hours in the morning and then four hours that same evening, beginning 3 hours later. I would look at it this way and offer something like this – </p>

<p > </p>

<p >"OK that's really two of my Packages. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >One, two hour package and one, Four Hour Package and to book me like that it would cost you $3000, i.e. $1,200 (Two Hour Package) and $1,800 (Four Hour Package), but my six hour package costs $2,500 but that is SIX HOURS consecutive. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >So what I would like to do for you is offer you is to <strong ><em >tailor make a special package</em></strong> just for you covering those NINE HOURS of MY TIME by supplying all the prints etc from my Four Hour Package and doing BOTH Photo Shoots and only charging you $2,800 . . .</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Also, you do have the option of talking my FULL DAY Package (10 Hours) for $5000” </p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p >It is very important when structuring Packages to think through how they might be broken-down into bits by the Client. There is an old thread on that - I can’t find it now. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

<p > </p>

 

[joshroot]

<p>When I was doing weddings, I split time on occasion. It really depended on the location of the wedding/reception, how close to home I was, how much I needed the work, and probably most importantly how much I liked the b&g. Not my favorite thing to do, but something I was willing to bargain about if I thought I wanted the job.</p>

[missy_kay]

<p>"I don't like splitting the time but it seems thats all brides are looking for."</p>

<p>From my experience, craigslist brides do this. I've been contacted several times about splitting the times and they're always from Craigslist. But I won't take it unless it's consecutive...</p>

[dave_wilson1]

<p>The only way I would consider something like this is if it was really close to my house and there was some very unusual logistical circumstance. I just can't imagine any properly planned wedding having all this down time. Sounds like a circus without a tent. That being said Jessica, if there is something in your particular market that warrants such a setup and it's worth your while $$$, go for it. On the other hand, the couple hiring your services, and then not taking advantage of your skills is their problem not yours, you still can't book another wedding for that day.</p>

[katrin_d.]

<p>I've only ever had one request for a split day and declined, consecutive hours only for me. Most likely, the couple is trying to save money - which is completely understandable - but financially not a viable option for me as I would have to set aside more time than I'm being paid for - like you said already, you're out of the house for 12 hours but you're only being paid for 5. William W's model makes the most sense, treat it as if it were two separate shoots and price it accordingly.</p>

[jessica_dixon]

<p>thanks!</p>

[joshroot]

<blockquote>

<p>I just can't imagine any properly planned wedding having all this down time. Sounds like a circus without a tent.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sometimes this is the case.</p>

<p>However, other times it is a couple trying to have a tiny intimate wedding in the morning and a large reception for friends and extended family later in the evening. Or one half of the family is one religion and one is another and they are working to celebrate in both churches. And so on.</p>

<p>In all likelihood many of the people asking for this are flakes or cheapskates and you should only take the job knowing that you may walk away wishing you hadn't. But there are legitimate reasons for having split wedding and reception times. And those are the couples for whom I considered dealing with the annoyance of it all.</p>

[dave_wilson1]

<p>Josh, excellent and valid points, but I'm not reading any special circumstances mentioned in the OP, just the idea of splitting up a normal full coverage which will no doubt leave Jessica open to getting burned somehow. I'm going by her example that she gave 5hrs split into what should have been much longer, not her short coverages.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Personally - I go for the consecutive approach - that way when they say you didn't shoot for the agreed upon # of hours, you can say "I started at X and ended at y. " </p>

<p>I like William W's approach - offer them 2 packages and a deal. </p>

<p>As for when this could / might happen - Many couples here (Mpls Mn) have to schedule their wedding well over a year in advance to get the "Hot" locations. Many of those locations do multiple ceremonies a day. So - they could be booked into a service location that they really want at say 10:00 am for the ceremony. They then have to be out of the ceremony location by 1:00pm so the next couple can get in. Then they have a reception location - separate from the church / service site but it's not booked until 6:00pm - that gives them 5 hours between the two - and they probably don't want 5 hours of photos in there...and they definitely don't want to pay for it.</p>

<p>As to whether or not this trend is exclusive property of CL brides - I don't think so... I see it more being from budget / value consious brides that don't want to pay for a service that they don't use or pay for more than they need. </p>

<p>I've had one couple with this situation - (the 5 hour gap) - I told them politely that my 5 hours was continous and that I would need to either a) charge for the down time at a lower rate or b) charge for a higher # of hours package - they discussed and decided to find another photographer. Instead I ended up shooting a straight 5 hour wedding package that day - so it worked out.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p> </p>

[Leonard-just-Leonard]

<p>one rate for the whole day. <br>

for E. Hughes...</p>

<p>It would seem to me that during any "down time" you could be on a laptop or other computer sifting through already shot images, doing whatever workflow processes are possible. this type of thing would have to be done regardless. </p>

<p>basically get a jump on the post-production while keeping yourself somewhat available.</p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>I would say yes in general. However, I am happy to split the booked hours up to make the day more managable for my clients.</p>

[joshroot]

<blockquote>

<p>Josh, excellent and valid points, but I'm not reading any special circumstances mentioned in the OP, just the idea of splitting up a normal full coverage which will no doubt leave Jessica open to getting burned somehow. I'm going by her example that she gave 5hrs split into what should have been much longer, not her short coverages.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Dave,</p>

<p>I agree. I just wanted to put the other, more legit, reasons out on the table for anyone who wasn't familiar with this sort of request. As we all know, there is a fine balance between flexibility in the name of good customer service and not being taken advantage of.</p>

<p>In general, I don't (didn't) deal with cheapskates on this sort of thing. But if I got the right vibe from the couple, or they had a compelling reason, I absolutely did consider working with them based on some of the things I listed in previous posts.</p>

[melinda_gaus]

<p>What about charging a small fee for splitting time? That way, they save money by booking less hours, but you get something for your inconvenience???</p>

<p>Just a thought. I'm not in this business though!</p>

[gregory_c]

<p>No, do not split your time, asking for problems,,,</p>

[shaun ring - lexington, ky]

<p>Hi Jessica! My two cents? Charge for consecutive hours. Even better solution? I've always been a big fan of having all of my packages include unlimited time on the wedding day. That way, no matter which wedding client you book for the day, you know that you're getting paid for all of your potential time. It does obligate you for a long day, but you'll be getting paid for it. Good luck! If you need any additional advice, I'm no expert, but I'd be happy to chat! Bye!<br>

-shaun</p>

[William Michael]

<p ><strong ><em >"I just wanted to put the other, more legit, reasons out on the table for anyone who wasn't familiar with this sort of request."</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >I was thinking over this - I think maybe twice or three times this has happened to me - all were because of different Religions and the B&G wanting TWO Services - and here, the large Churches / Ministry can be booked up Saturday Afternoons, especially in Spring and Summer - so something like one Service at 1100hrs then the "Wedding" at 1400 - simply because they ran out of Saturdays to get the Services closer together.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >But as I said, I didn't book Weddings on a “Package = Time” basis.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >What I did with these customers is booked the "Wedding" and charged for it as the Afternoon / Evening Event: and then I just added a (reduced) "Commercial" shooting Fee (i.e. just my time) for 1½ hours (or whatever) for the morning.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >In my answer I adapted this to suit your "Package" way of doing business. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The point is (as I mentioned) when setting up Packages, I think it is important to think through the <em >Elements of each Package</em> and how each differs from the one below (less expensive). If you don't, you will eventually come across an analyst (like me) who will spend time with you right up to the point of signing and then want to re-arrange the internal bits to suit themselves.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >These types of personalities are the ones who want to re-arrange menus - so it is important to either have a "fast food” protocol that states: “Mini, Mid or Jumbo and do you want Fries?” - Or if you want to be flexible have a clear mind of what each package actually is and how it differs and what latitude (profit margin – both % and actual) you have with it.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >You have mentioned earlier that you secure one day for each Wedding - and I believe that you make that a Marketing ploy – that is a two edges sword as obviously the Customer will argue that you have secured the whole day anyway so we are not cutting across any other Wedding you might have booked.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >This is the type of detail I mean when I mention the Elements of the Packages.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I think it can be a strength to market oneself as setting aside the whole day for One Wedding Only – no matter how small or large and for whatever time - as I mentioned on your previous thread I did that but in doing so we must be cognisant of equally opposing forces – to that Marketing Strength there is also a Marketing Weakness, and one must be ready to counter it should it happen . . . it seems that is the reason for your question – it has happened to you or (better) you are preparing just in case it does. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

<p > </p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>I've been doing coverage like yours since the mid 90's. I have 2, 4, 6, 8 and up-to-12 hour coverages. Each coverage includes an album with a minimum number of photos and that minimum is larger with each longer coverage. I need to know that if we're photographing for a longer time slot, I'm guaranteed a larger sale. Photographers don't make real money from overtime and session fees. I also CHARGE a split fee as sometimes there can be a very long break. In addition, my price list also indicates an overtime fee by the HALF hour. I did this years ago because it can be difficult to charge for a hour when you stay an additonal 35-40 minutes. It also states <em>if available</em> on the price list so no one expects that we're available on the day of the wedding....-Aimee</p>

[jessica_dixon]

<p>You all have given me a lot to think about :D Thanks for all the advice and help. I've only been shooting weddings for almost 3 years and I still feel like I just started!<br>

I'm really leaning towards keeping the time consecutive. I once tried offering all packages with unlimited time to deal with this issue and kept getting brides who say "well I only need you for like 5 hours" and right away they would want a discount. Or, there were also the brides who wanted me for like 12-14 hrs. So I quickly ended that. Well, I guess I just might have to toughen up and say "consecutive only" lol, thanks everyone!<br>

P.S. If you do only unlimited time, how do you go about deciding the prices? Do you start the pricing based on like 12 hours or by whats included in the package? I think my prices would be too high if I offered only unlimited, like starting at around $2500.</p>

[shaun ring - lexington, ky]

<p><em>"If you do only unlimited time, how do you go about deciding the prices? Do you start the pricing based on like 12 hours or by whats included in the package? I think my prices would be too high if I offered only unlimited, like starting at around $2500."</em><br>

In pricing for unlimited time, I try to keep in mind how much potential revenue I might lose by booking a specific wedding and turning down other possible weddings. If you book a 5 hour wedding, you're not going to be able to take a 12 hour wedding if they call you the next week, you know? If this scenario is possible, then your cost for the day IS valuable (opportunity cost). $2500 for the day? Totally depends on your market. Start wherever you like and work your way up as you keep getting booked again and again.<br>

Good luck! :)</p>

[jessica_dixon]

<p>Shaun R: Yea, $2000 is the starting point in my area for unlimited time. But I get alot of budget brides these days, so I don't think I'll get enough business if I start at $2500. But it makes sense, I get what your saying. Maybe once I get more established and more business then I might be able to go down that route.<br>

thanks!</p>