kel_madics Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>Hows your photography business doing with all these other photographer charging super low price. Here in the DC area looking at craigslist i see some photogs charging $500 below for an entire wedding package offering prints and everything with unlimited time. I feel like I'm undervaluing my self if ill deep to such a low price.<br> And where else or how do you guys advertise or market your business? Much help appreciated!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>You need to get out of the low priced category as soon as possible so you aren't competing with low priced photographers. I'd suggest looking up previous threads about marketing. The best way is to go through referrals and to cultivate vendor contacts. If you are in a smaller community, also get out and get your name out there, doing non-profit or other events where you can cultivate referrals.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>Offer the same lower quality coverages --- If they would like your best shooting - then it will be at your price. It's up to them ---you can save them money > by shooting lower quality , if thats where their budget lies ....</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e._hughes Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>I don't think you can offer to shoot "lower quality" for anyone. If you have the ability to shoot someone's wedding and just not try at all, in the effort to give them a lower quality product with your name on it, then this isn't the right business for you...<br> Your best bet is to get out of the Craigslist market as quickly as possible. It sounds like you're probably charging slightly more ($1000?) than the craigslist people, and I totally get where you're coming from. No offense to Craigslist, but the people there looking for wedding photographers are looking for the cheapest of the cheap, ultimately they are looking for free because they don't <em>think</em> they care about the photography "that much." They are the ones that will end up like the woman who posted on here the other day saying her photos were horrible, all she has are discs of bad pictures, and doesn't know what to do! I've advertised on Craigslist before, but I make a point to put my starting price in the posting so I don't get anyone calling and wanting me to pay them to take their pictures...<br> Try some local bridal shows/fairs, vendor networking, volunteer for local charities that might NEED photos for something, and just bust your butt and you'll get there. Oh, and don't forget to continue improving your photography skills... :) <br> If you're still worried about how you're going to get out of the Craigslist market... Remember that brides are not always looking at the $$$ itself, they are looking for perceived value. Make yourself look valuable, and make the products, packages, or whatever you've got seem more valuable. The value of a $500 all-day cd student photographer seems high to a bride because they see that they get the WHOLE DAY, and ALL the photos on a disc. They don't realize that the photos are not edited, they get no album, or anything else, much less a professional nice person who will walk them through the process gently. Emphasize your best features, like this AMAZING album that tells the story of their wedding perfectly, or show them before and after photos with and without editing. Give your clients value and they will tell all their friends...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>a lower quality coverage -- for my standards --would jpegs & auto everything --no editing -- hand the card directly to the B&G</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e._hughes Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>I guess that would work (jpegs, and auto everything) but I don't think I would be comfortable handing everything over like that... those photos are like my babies! :) </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_t5 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>handling unedited pictures just so you can make a quick buck is just wrong if you ask me.</p> <p>shooting the images is 1/2 the job...post processing is the other half</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl_klitzke Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>$500? Shoot, I see kids advertising $100 for a wedding around here. The key to getting business in that climate to be able to charge more than $500 is to LOOK professional. Stop in at local studios, check out some bridal shows, websites, etc to see how "real" pros market themselves. An all-lowercase craigslist post with a link to a DeviantArt page does not count as "marketing," imo. Figure out what sets the 'pros' apart from the craigslist crowd. The pics may look the same, but a photo book or nice matted print in a frame will win out vs. a Wal*Mart print envelope any day.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p><em>"The key to getting business in that climate to be able to charge more than $500 is to LOOK professional"</em><br /><em></em><br />Actually, I think there's a ton of newbies and very-part-timers that are shooting for peanuts and even more that will shoot a 6-8 hour wedding, then "churn & burn" everything to a disk for less than $1000.........that do have a professional looking website and snappy business cards. Interesting read: <a href="http://www.sonopp.com/Perspectives/Devaluing/Devaluing.htm">http://www.sonopp.com/Perspectives/Devaluing/Devaluing.htm</a></p> <p>Nadine's advice above is good but there are some huge shifts in wedding photography over the past few years. After a couple of years, I gave up the full-time aspirations and returned to my first career and now shoot much less often.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel_madics Posted November 12, 2009 Author Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>I just don't get how I can offer $500 and below where my investment is much higher than that. I offer asuka books and all of my gadgets are pro caliber and i do strive to get the best photos and post processing of all the images i offer. ohh well, maybe i'll try what e. hughes said, go to bridal shows and market like crazy.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerjporter Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>I have a cheap 4 hour wedding deal, but truth be told, i am always bummed when brides ask for it (i've only sold it a couple times, both for really young couples just starting out). Sure, it's 4 times what i would make at my day job on a saturday, but when it comes down to it, i don't like to do it. I'm taking it off my price sheet for next season. I am thinking on upping my middle price package and raising prices across the board. i have been assisting weddings for 14 years, and shooting on my own for 9, it's time for me to grow up. I even found an assistant who i like and compliments my stuff (so i need to pay her too). In my film days, i shot, developed at a lab, and put the 4x6's in a big album for the couple, done deal, but post production on the computer is brutal. It's a lot more time consuming. I do have a day job too, so weddings are not my regular gig, but i still enjoy doing them (sorry all you full timers!- I'm not under 1000 dollars though so I am not in "that" category). I have a friend that does wedding photography primarily but has 2 other business ventures going also to make sure the mortgage gets paid. I think that's a good way to do it these days. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_t5 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 <p>while i did enjoy reading that article, i don't really agree with it to a certain extend..it sounded a bit bitter :)</p> <p>i still believe in the free market system.. if you offer something compelling, people will pay for it..</p> <p>if they are willing to go with the cheaper alternative instead of you, that just means that as far as the customer is concerned, your quality simply does not justify the price difference..whether it be the type of products or the type of shots you have..</p> <p>it is up to the photographer to show that they are worth the price that they are charging, and if you can't, then don't go crying about how the next door neighbor is stealing your business with a cheaper price tag.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>If they are not going to pay for the best you offer -- why give them all the editing , raw files, manual exp ..save that for the clients willing to pay . <br> But, weddings are getting slim pickens --so I'm not passing up the jobs these days ... give them what they can afford but, nothing more.<br> The B&G are trying to drag me back to prices I started with in 1978 :-) Have to be creative these days ..at least for us 30+ years > full-timer.</p> <p>So you can</p> <p ><strong><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5040595">E. Hughes</a> <br /> </strong></p> <p><strong>... those photos are like my babies! :)</strong> Guess I felt that way back in the 80/90's but, I loose that <em>parental care</em> when they inquire for about 1/4 of my price</p> <p ><strong><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=4838247">Mark T</a> , <br /> </strong></p> <p><strong>handling unedited pictures just so you can make a quick buck is just wrong if you ask me.</strong><br> <strong>shooting the images is 1/2 the job...post processing is the other</strong><br> <strong> </strong> so definitely<strong> </strong> charge them accordingly --if they can only afford 1/2 job > no post processing</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscape_shooter Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>WELL, according to the article, if you give a random guest a point and shoot they will produce the same level of work of someone like Neil Ambrose?<br> ---- "The first trend that has led to the devaluing of professional photography is wedding photojournalism."-----<br> -----"That part-time wedding photographer in your neighborhood no longer has to learn proper posing or lighting in order to be considered a professional wedding photographer. Just take a bunch of pictures and let them all be ‘natural’. <strong>I can give literally ANYONE a camera and get this type of wedding photography.</strong> How can we be respected as professional photographers if anybody can do the same thing that we are doing? I am sorry but wedding photojournalism looks like wedding photojournalism. You will get some great photos once in a while so long as you have a good camera and your finger glued to the shutter."-----<br> To make an all encompassing statement about photojournalism wedding photography is just rude . Also, the author might as well call every bride-to-be and tell them exactly what they want for their wedding photos and what price they are going to pay(even if they don't have it) since apparantly there's only 1 answer. Oh, and they will have to meet at his studio. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markonestudios Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 "I just don't get how I can offer $500 and below where my investment is much higher than that. " <p>So what's the problem here. Charge what makes business sense. If others are charging less, that's entirely up to them. You have a product. Find a niche; market in and to that niche accordingly. Sell yourself as a product in that higher niche and seek to differentiate yourself through smart marketing and a unique style. Then, learn to say no. If the job isn't going to pay its own bills, forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>Of course the article has a bitter sentiment to it, that's what happens with "devaluing"....professional level work. Often the average consumer can not identify quality photography unless they can see the images on a side by side basis. How often does a newcomer post a recent photo of their's and then become upset when it gets critiqued for blown-out highlights, poor exposure, and a lack of fill light? If the so-called advanced hobbyists and aspiring new wedding photographers can not detect the lack of quality in their own work, how can we expect the average b/g to be able to discern less than professional quality?</p> <p>Newcomers that "cherry pick" images for their website can misrepresent what the client can expect with a full wedding. How often do new shooters advertise their prices as an "affordable" alternative to the price of prints from a studio......and include hi-res files so that the consumers can avoid the "repugnant" prices of reprints? And what attitude do you think they have to-wards established studios and experienced photographers?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art_tatum Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>I raise my rates every time I see a discussion like this. I like to play where the money is.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>---- "The first trend that has led to the devaluing of professional photography is wedding photojournalism."----</p> <p>Still doing 70 % traditional coverage -- no real PJ in our package --<em>engaging candids</em> the remaining % ...we also generally only stay ~ 4 hours > not much time for full on PJ ...but, one way to stay within the budget .</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony_zipple Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>This is the same problem that lots of industries are having... just ask your local florist or recording studio or rock musician! The truth is that better tools make it possible for more people to enter the market and do an acceptable job. These photographers may not be the best, but not everyone wants the best at a 200-500% higher price. They will accept decent quality at bargain prices. That is why budget televisions still sell next to the new Sonys and why Rebel kit cameras still sell next to Canon 1D Mark IVs. There is room for both, but the entry of lots of reasonably good, low end shooters tend to shrink the customers for higher end shooters.<br> I am a serious amateur who does an occasional wedding on the cheap for friends. It is a lot of work so it do not do it often, but helps pay for my expensive hobby. I am glad that I am not trying to make a living at it and that I can afford to shoot on the cheap. And there are a lot of people like me me around! I am sure that pros would do a better job, and I tell my friends exactly that. But often they look at my work and say that it is quite good enough for them and I can save them a decent bit of cash.<br> I see only 2 strategies: compete at a lower price in a bigger, easier to find pool of customers or compete at a higher price with a progressively smaller pool of customers who want to (and can afford to) pay a high cost to get the best. Both can be viable strategies and you need to decide which is right for you.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnina Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>What makes the difference is that while a so called "photographer" will deliver whaever pictures and most probably will not get any referrals, a photographer that does deliver quality will keep himself on the market with a lot of refarrals.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_harrington1 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>I don't understand why the animosity over what others charge, or why its a concern to anyone. Of course I understand that when someone offers the same services and quality at a lower price it means that you'll have to work smarter at marketing and salesmanship. Most of the photographers on Craigs List or similar budget wedding deals fill a need for photos at the lower end of the economy. Think of them as the WalMart Photographers. The average person getting started in a very competiive market has to gain experience and develop a portfolio. Why not buy some market share by doing weddings at a lower price than the competition. Isn't this the strategy making China such an economic powerhouse? Sure the quality isn't always as good as a full time professional, but many times it is more that close enough, especially when a couple is pondering if they can really afford a photographer at all. While I agree moving into a high end market as soon as possible is likely the way to avoid competion, it isn't always the right move. Take for example a person who love photography, needs to defer the cost of the hobby so they shoot an occasional weekend wedding so they can afford the new lens, flash, body etc. After a while they get all the equipment they need, gain the experience they need and now have to compete against other high end photographers for the dwindling high priced weddings. That same person may shoot 3 or 4 weddings a year while the word of mouth market works making a gross revenue of say $10,000. On the other hand, he could shoot say 26 budget weddings and make a gross revenue of say $20-25,000. Not a bad price to suplement their day job. Bigger weddings come with bigger expectations and higher degrees of professionalism. Also, bigger risks if the couple doesn't think the pics are as good as their friend's who just got married. Not to mention someone who shoots weddings all the time will generally do a more efficient job and stress less than the guy who shoots 3-4 weddings a year. Lastly, from the numerous postings here about what lens should I buy, Will my d60/Rebel XTI be good enough for weddings etc the average "professional" photographer still in my honest opinion is learning their craft and until they have more mastery probably shouldn't be trying to shoot high end weddings.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscape_shooter Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>All I'm saying about the article is it is nothing more than whining really. Putting photojournalism style down is nothing more than a painter saying a potter can't use a brush. Or a singer saying a guitarist can't sing. People like the style and pay good money for it, what is wrong with that? "Photojournalism style is de-valuing our "professional photography"! And then we need to whine about the part-timers, Oh my! The brides can't tell a difference from their work and ours! It's just not fair! Let's blame the part-timers! They don't even have studios! Seriously, this person should re-educate the entire population. A "professional" photographer must have a studio(1), do posed traditional style only(2), and charge 5,000 and up(3). Unless you are happy with all 3 of these things including having $5,000, then don't bother to hire one! You may think you are happy, but your not!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serge_kakorin Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>Kel, unfortunately, we do not see your work here. Maybe you can give us a link to your portfolio for starters? Then you can get a better quality info about the second part of your question (marketing and advertising). I want to say two things for now. First, never compete on price, because you'll loose. There are only two options there. If you want to go low, go to the very bottom and offer a package for FREE. You'd know better how to present it, because you know your situation better; or you MUST get out of the place where you have to compete on price. I agree here with Nadine. You can not stay in the middle of the price range if you want to keep your business and see it making you money. Second thing I wanted to say is never listen to a bad advise like " offer the same lower quality coverages". It is tempting in a short run, but it will establish you as a low quality photographer, and will kill your business sooner or later. It will also poison your life as an artist. Imagine cranking out "lower quality coverages" for the rest of your life. Search your feelings and good luck. ;)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_taylor5 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p>Advertise "you get what you pay for" or "If you want cheap poor quality go with the other guy."<br> You better be able to backup your claim with quality photos and good service. Pick two of the three choices, cheap, fast, or right.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 <p><strong>Land Shooter </strong><br>A "professional" photographer must have a studio(1), do posed traditional style only(2), and charge 5,000 and up(3). Unless you are happy with all 3 of these things including having $5,000, then don't bother to hire one! You may think you are happy, but your not!</p><p>Hey is 1 out of 3 OK === #2 only</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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