Should I upgrade to 5D Mk II or expand lens collection

[alex_millender]

<p>I have the ability to buy a legit US version 5D Mk II new as a kit from a reputable dealer.<br /> <br /> The kit includes the Camera, a 24-70 2.8 L, 70-200 2.8 L, BG-E6 Battery Grip, extra battery, 580EX II, SanDisk 4GB Extreme 3 CF card (ALL NEW).<br /> <br /> The kit cost is $4230. I would have to sell ALL my gear to add to the pot for the purchase as I haven't planned (aka saved) to purchase this equipment.<br /> I'm about to start a photography business with a partner who is already an established photog (doing weddings, portraits, advertisement, fashion, probably some sports, maybe a few other things but probably not a lot of landscape---takes too much time away from the other areas of focus to get the quality shots that are worth selling....IMHO).<br /> <br /> My question is should I lay down the money for this kit or get some more lenses for my XSi? My current set up is a XSi, EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM, 70-300 f/4-5.6 IS USM, 580EX II, extra XSi battery (I still have the XSi Kit lens, practically unused). My next purchase for the XSi was going to be a Canon 50mm 1.4 but I'll likely have to hold off on this until revenue starts coming in more steadily from the photography if I buy the above stated kit. <br /> <br /> I know the capabilities and quality of the two cameras and the lenses in question are not even in the same universe as each other. I also know some of the best photographers I've ever met or heard from will tell you it is more about the shot taken and the skill of the photographer than the camera used.<br /> <br /> Money is NOT unlimited for me but my current day job will allow me to purchase this kit in December if I decide to go with it. Is this as much a no-brainer as it seems? Or should I build my lens collection with the XSi (I have become VERY proficient with this camera).</p>

<p>Going off B&H prices and applying Canon's Fall discounts this setup would cost $6543 if purchased through them. So it is a savings of $2313.79 or 35%! I'm going to list my current equipment on ebay for probably $2000 (since all in all total value new- body, lenses, flash, filters, bag, memory cards, extra battery- is almost $3000). The remaining $2200 is just a LOT of money to lay down not having planned for it! Opinions/Suggestions PLEASE!</p>

<p>Thanks,<br>

Alex</p>

[tdigi]

<p>$4230 for a 5D2 - 24-70, 70-200 2.8..... etc sounds to good to be true and usually its just that.</p>

[mike_stemberg]

Ditto!

[anders_carlsson]

<p>Probably a scam. Why would a reputable dealer sell all that gear for 35% less than the current street price?</p>

[alan_bryant1]

<p>I would pass. Nobody discounts gear that much. That has to be way below dealer's cost, probably below Canon's cost.</p>

[images_in_light_north_west]

<p>At that price if your sure its legit, snap it up, especialy if the 70-200 has IS, but as Tommy said........................</p>

[alex_millender]

<p>It is a government employee deal. Working in sales myself (and SELLING canon large format printers as a matter of fact) I can tell you the electronics industry has us all by the nuts letting us believe they are making low margin on ANYTHING (except maybe gaming systems right after they are released).</p>

<p>I know for a fact it is a legit deal because of the dealer selling it. It is a special "government employee deal" that I cannot go into further detail about beyond it is a "GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE DEAL"</p>

[alex_millender]

<p>Also, there is a REASON I am comparing it to B&H's <em>NORMAL</em> prices instead of BestBuy or Wolf Camera (if you catch the drift here)</p>

[mark_schafer1]

<p>Going pro i would go for it (and keep updating to the most current model). There are just too many improvement going on these days and getting a new pro body every 2 years is well justified (considering no more film at $20-25 a roll, dev+contact). The lens collection in your deal are the workhorse of nearly every pro out there and will serve you for some time. Plus if you partner up with someone you can exchange gear. The EF-S lenses are not FF compatible and the 70-200 will be head above your current tele zoom, but you might miss the long reach, depending what you shoot. Maybe a 1.4 extender would be helpful. But i personally think the battery grip is a bit much, i like my 5D small and agile, for vertical studio work i tend to use the 1Ds series...</p>

[authoritee]

<p>If it's completely legit, go for it; if you have a doubt, as miniscule it could be, do not bite the bait.</p>

[alex_millender]

<p>I WILL miss the tele end (its an extra 280mm I'm losing when taking into account the 1.6x AND the actual 100mm loss)... That I can live with because of the higher res- I can crop if ABSOLUTELY necessary to end up with the same (or at least similar) framing with MUCH higher IQ. I can't STAND rolling my hand 90 degrees when a situation calls for mostly Portrait orientation. I'd rather have the PO controls that the grip adds when I need them than have a smaller lighter body (only reason I want it, could care less about extra capacity or using disposable batteries). As far as the 1Ds is concerned... YEAH RIGHT! I'm no photojournalist, not getting $25K+ for one job, not being sent by a mag to new zealand or Barbados to shoot super models at dusk... In other words, the 5D Mk II MORE than meets my needs- don't need the added price nor ISO of the 1Ds Mk-anything. I'm wary of spending this much money on the kit not knowing how quickly the new biz will bring in revenue.</p>

<p>OH Decisions... I think based on all the "too good to be true" and "stuff of professionals everywhere" comments it's obvious what all your non-biased, and educated suggestions are:<br>

GET IT</p>

<p>One last question- if I'm being budget conscious and just refuse to lay down the dough... and would rather have a more versatile selection of lenses with my current body what suggestions would you all make- My first thought is a 50mm 1.4, then a 28 1.8 and/or a 35 2.0. I REALLY like the look of fast lenses (bokeh and shallow DOF). Or should I go with an EF-S 17-55 2.8 (I WILL eventually go FF even if I don't do the "Kit" above so the EF-S is a less inviting choice)</p>

<p>Thanks for all the suggestions and responses so far!</p>

[tdigi]

<p>Why would you be budget conscious? If you can really get that gear at those prices go for it. If you don't like it you can sell it and probably make money. </p>

[alex_millender]

<p>I know I'll LOVE the Gear... I'm just worried because if I buy this set up it will be because I sold EVERYTHING<br>

<br /> SO: No bag, no filters (polarizer, ND, UV/Protective, etc that I have now- granted current are for smaller sized rings- 67 & 58), No new tri-pod (I kinda need a new one as mine's broke- easier to get a new one than fix the prob I've got), no FAST Prime lens because I SURE won't have $ for that. This is REALLY pushing my budget. It would be months before I could add to it even the everyday normal accessories- that is unless the photography biz starts making money right off the bat, but lets be honest... this isn't exactly the best time to be starting any business especially one that costs people money (haha- is there a business that doesn't cost people money)- no matter what the service provided.</p>

<p>PLUS a lens for FF to replace the 300mm on the 1.6 crop would be a 500mm (300x1.6= 480) or at least 400mm with cropped photos. I have NO need for a rig like that as I do NOT do large-field outdoor sports or bird photog.</p>

<p> </p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>Alex at those prices (if they are true) you can just sell one of the lenses (e.g. 24-70) and buy a prime such as the 50 F1.4 or 85 f1.8 and still have money left for a tripod and filters. Are you sure the deal is genuine? I have seen a lot of deals over the years (and beyond hotel rates) I cannot think of a single one which was 35% below the best retail price.</p>

[felix_mizioznikov]

<p>I just got my second 5d2. just body new for $2450 shipped from a reputable ebay seller. One thing with canon is your not really saving much by buying packages and if the package seems to good to be true, it's a scam. Try asking the seller if you could pick up the package and see what they say. it is an incredible camera with same features as some of canons 7000 dollar bodies</p>

[alex_millender]

<p>I was EXTREMELY skeptical myself when I was first introduced to the deal but lets just say the company in question (B_ _) is VERY "nice" to military personnel and my new photography business partner is said military personnel. He wants to go this route himself but he's having a hard time convincing himself to sell all his Nikon equipment to do it. He's running a much nicer and already professional level setup with a D700 but its not quite on par with this 5D "kit".</p>

<p>As far as selling the 24-70. I've never shot exclusively with a prime so I'd have a difficult time adjusting to the change (yes I know I'm one of THOSE lazy photographers) and seeing as we are trying to get our company name out there I need to focus more on the work than relearning how to compose a shot with a fix FL lens. I just wanted to ADD a prime for special low light situations where not even the fastest zooms have enough speed. I wasn't looking and would honestly be uncomfortable with using a prime as my main walk-around lens.</p>

<p>NOW I WILL admit I make these statements haven taken less than 200 shots with prime of any type. BUT, I do take some family photos in small rooms where a 50mm prime just wouldn't be NEARLY wide enough. My little 17mm 1.6 crop (aka 27mm) struggles sometimes to get photos of my wife's whole family at social gatherings (there are anywhere from 23-27 of them depending on holiday). Since this will be my personal camera used for business as well, I need it to be VERSATILE.</p>

<p>Maybe I'll get more sales in this month than expected and/or sell my current gear on ebay for more than $2k and I'll just have an extra $500-$1000 so it isn't a problem!<br>

On that: Is $2K too much to ask for a less-than-one-year-old XSi with about 8-10K shots (in good shape), said lenses (all purchased Feb 09 or later), 580EX II, 18-55 IS kit lens, extra XSi Battery, 2 8GB Memory cards (1 sandisk C4, 1 Kingston C6), 58mm Quantaray Pro series Cir-Pol, 58mm QP UV/Clear protect., 67mm Hoya HT HMC Cir-Pol, 67mm Tiffen HT 4stop ND, 67mm Quantaray Digital 2 stop ND, 67mm Tiffen HT UV/Protective, Canon backpack bag? (ALL INCLUDED FOR $2k) All in all this setup retails NOW for about $2900 through bestbuy/wolf which is where I bought everything but the camera itself. Through B&H its more like $2600.</p>

 

[alex_millender]

<p>The only reason I don't just come out and say the name of the dealer is that it isn't a deal available to the general public, I'm sure they don't want people buying this way then turning around and selling for a profit, I'm not sure I'm even supposed to know about it technically, and MOST IMPORTANTLY- I do not want to get my new business partner in trouble with the MPs or Gov't.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>It's your money, but usually a price that beats B&H by a large percentage is a bait and switch tactic. It's also not a great idea to spend every dime you have, even if you are "about to start a photography business." Why can't you use some of your partner's gear until you become more established.</p>

<p>Bottom line: If you were a friend or a relative, I would discourage you from making this deal. </p>

[alex_millender]

<p>OK- it IS a B&H package from a section of their website that can only be accessed with military ID smart code. I can't even access it on my own. (THIS is how I know it is legit)<br>

I DO tend to agree with you though Dan. I don't want to get this kit then have no way to carry it around because I can't afford a decent bag... or scratch a (or both) lens front element because I don't have a filter on it... or need something else unforeseen and not be able to get it...I can EASILY add a 50 1.4 so I'll have a fast lens with my current setup... the only problem is noise at ISO above 400 is unacceptable IMHO on my current rig (of course I AM a pixel peeper, so I bet once we start printing large format ISO 800 will still be acceptable from normal viewing distance)<br>

I think I will wait. If it is still available when I can afford it without "breaking the bank" I'm going to get it because it is OBVIOUSLY such a good deal everyone here thinks it is a bait and switch or phoney... by the way I almost got caught by one of those when I first bought my XSi so I know what to look for.</p>

<p>Thanks for the advice!<br>

A</p>

[15sunrises]

<p>I'm guessing that the deal doesn't apply to the 7D? Might be your best play in the end if it does.</p>

[greg_kowalczewski]

<p> </p>

<p >

<p>

<p >Alex, as a general rule my advice would be to purchase a system of bodies and lenses that best matches your photographic needs and ability. If a less expensive body/lens system can deliver exactly what you need then there is absolutely no need to look further.</p>

<p >The comment “it is more about the shot taken and the skill of the photographer than the camera used” is very true – but those making those comments will also acknowledge that you need certain lenses to achieve certain results – that’s why they are photographers.</p>

<p >Your comment “I WILL eventually go FF even if I don't do the "Kit" above so the EF-S is a less inviting choice” effectively answers the question you raised.</p>

<p >Now to the question of should I or shouldn’t I?</p>

<p >Assuming that the equipment is as you describe and comes with full warranty and local service then the deal on offer is worth considering; provided that</p>

<p >(1) You are a skilled photographer (or a quick and keen learner).</p>

<p >(2) You are capable of making a quick transition into the proposed business venture</p>

<p >(3) You are very passionate about photography and </p>

<p >(4) The system on offer is exactly what you want to use in terms of format (full frame vs 1.6x crop) and lenses. </p>

<p >Then go for it! As <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=3896539"><strong>Tommy DiGiovanni</strong></a><strong> </strong><a href="http://www.photo.net/member-status-icons"><strong></strong><strong></strong></a><strong>, Nov 09, 2009; 10:27 p.m. </strong>pointed out “If you don't like it (the purchase) you can sell it and probably make money”. Unlike your current equipment which will depreciate more rapidly due to the more frequent release of Canon equipment in that market category.</p>

<p >Good lenses expand your photographic choices – and they do tend to hold their prices. </p>

<p > </p>

</p>

</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p> </p>

<p > </p>

[JamieK]

<p>What the 5DII does unimaginably better is low light. I find this really helpful with portraits, so that I can balance more toward natural light and away from flash. Have a look at the "Portraits - Scientists" folder in my other account (kraft jamie) if you're curious. I'm quite pleased with the results, and they were taken rapidly with a minimum of gear.<br /> <br /> The other thing the 5DII does is give you a sensor 250% the size of the other camera. That will also help with portraits.<br /> <br /> It is much better, but you'll be ok with the old one if you can't manage it.</p>

[authoritee]

<p>If your main problem is the noise in ISOs above 400, you can just buy the 7D body for $1700 and voila! No visible noise up to 1600, and 3200 is still very acceptable. Get a 50mm f/1.4 (or perhaps the 50mm f/1.8, which is cheaper and, IMO, just as good), and don't ever buy an EF-S lens. That's what I've been doing. Both my cameras, an XSi and a 7D are 1.6x, but none of my lenses are EF-S; I do not like the idea of not being able to use them in any other camera, like a lent 5D Mark II or a 1D Mark III.</p>

<p>The 7D is an outstanding body, you should go to a store where you can actually try it out for yourself; it might be just what you're looking for.</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<blockquote>

<p>OK- it IS a B&H package from a section of their website that can only be accessed with military ID smart code. I can't even access it on my own. (THIS is how I know it is legit)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>B&H? That settles it. Grab it.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[wpahnelas]

<p>if you buy all this great gear and the photographic venture bombs out, it'll still be a hell of a ride. everybody ought to try at least one outrageous thing in this life...</p>