Candid's help. My First time.

[george_harris3]

<p >Hi All,</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I’m not sure where to start with this question so Ill give you a bit of background information.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >My friend has asked me to take ‘candid’ shots at her wedding next month. She has a professional photographer contracted for the wedding but asked me to take these shots in addition to the professional. I told her I would do it. I understand ‘candids’ to mean, for example if the professional is getting a picture of the kiss, I would be getting a shot of the brides mother’s reaction to the kiss for example?</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Now I am an amateur photographer (very amateur, well I may not even be that) and my passion is outdoor stuff. I normally make a point not to take people pictures because it is not my interest and I have never given any time or applied myself to learning this area. So in the next 4 weeks I need to learn and absorb as much as I can and I was hoping you could all give some advice. I would like to get some OK shots so as to not look foolish with my several thousands of dollars equipment.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I will be taking with me my 5D and 70-200mm 2.8 IS lens. This is the only lens in my kit that I would imagine to be suitable. I have a 50mm 1.8 I can throw in but id imagine it will be too short to stay out of the action. I have a 17-40mm 4 that possibly could come in handy with some wide shots. I don’t own a flash and don’t intend buying one. I will bed the camera once the light is gone.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >So my few questions are:</p>

<p > </p>

<p >- Will the Professional be understanding or annoyed at my presence? How will I make sure I don’t get in his/her way/shots or tread on his/her toes?</p>

<p >- Basics of exposure. I have read Caucasians look best at +1 stop?</p>

<p >- Aperture priority?</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I think Ill be able to bumble my way through the technical part I guess I'm really concerned about getting in the pro’s way or, heaven forbid, ruin a shot.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Any thoughts, words of wisdom or advice is very very welcome.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Cheers.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >George</p>

[mirko_herzner]

<p>Hej George,</p>

<ol>

<li>I only shot two weddings for friends so far. They were interested in the very same model you mention here. A pro-photographer was present for 1 hour and 2 hours respectively... So it was up to me to cover the rest. We have a similar background with me not doing much people work and being mostly interested in nature/landscapes.</li>

</ol>

<p>So what did I do? First I did the same you are doing now: researching. I read everything I could and even bought some new equipment (e. g. flash).<br>

My approach on the actual wedding day was quite a bit different from what you are thinking about. Simply said I was responsible for EVERYTHING that the professional photog did not cover:</p>

<ol>

<li>preparations of bride and groom</li>

<li>arrival at the church</li>

<li>outdoor activities</li>

<li>reception and indoor activities</li>

</ol>

<p>I did not mess with the pro. Their most important task was the posed shots with the couple and the ceremony in one of the two weddings. Everything else was my territory.<br>

If you are unsure about what the couple expects please confirm with them. And stay out of the pros' way...<br>

Just my experiences...<br>

Best luck with this opportunity<br>

Mirko</p>

[neilambrose]

<p>George, the right lens for you will be conditioned by your shooting style and normal working space.</p>

<p>But, from experience, I'd suggest a 70-200 is probably too long to be much use. Many of the shots you're talking about are better done from very close - say 28mm to 35mm focal range. If you're at the end of a long zoom, the range will force you to be always outside the groups that you're interested in, and you'll struggle to get decent compositions. People who start this way typically bring back lots of shots of backs of heads, single faces hovering in the frame (the passport shot), and people clustered from afar. They don't really work as photos, capturing neither emotion nor context. Remember that groups of people tend to gather in circles, so unless you're in the circle you'll never see a face.</p>

<p>Since you're a guest, you've got one primary advantage over the hired photographer. You can hang with the guests - introduce yourself to people, engage them in conversation, be with them when the moments happen. Shots taken this way can be intimate and powerful, capturing one person's emotion from up close, and the reactions of those people around them.</p>

<p>The only time a long lens is likely to be useful is during the ceremony and speeches. But, if you're seated as a guest you won't be able to move around, therefore severely limiting its usefulness. All you'll end up doing is bashing people next to you in the face with it as you hunt for the best shot.</p>

<p>In your shoes I'd leave the 70-200 at home and take the 50mm, and make my legs do the zooming. And if you've got a 35mm, even better.</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em>"Will the Professional be understanding or annoyed at my presence? How will I make sure I don’t get in his/her way/shots or tread on his/her toes?"</em><br>

<em></em><br>

Just use some common sense and don't become an annoyance and keep clear of the pro. Neil's lens suggestion and advice is solid. Relax, have fun and take lots of "happy snaps", less risky to use "P" priority and avoid "A" altogether. Good luck.</p>

[markonestudios]

You'd better clear with the pro first. He/she may have a clause in their contract that forbids any other photographers. Your response to such a request should, in future, be a lot more measured (basically, don't simply say yes), friend or no friend. If nothing else, out of professional courtesy for the main shooter. As far as equipment, you're probably on the right track. Long lens, stay away from the main shooter. Minimal or no flash, if possible. But again, you MUST clear this with the main photographer first, well in advance of the wedding day.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em>"But again, you MUST clear this with the main photographer first, well in advance of the wedding day." -MAK</em><br>

<em></em><br>

As long as he is simply taking "happy snaps" as a guest and not acting like he's some "official" and/or "pro" photographer, I don't see any need to clear anything. Just keep a low profile and steer clear of the pro.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>I'd say that if the Bride asked you to shoot, then the bride should inform her pro so he/she knows that it's a direct request from her, not just shutter bug with a nice camera. If there is any conflicting clause in the contract, it can be reacted to then ... you aren't privy to what has been discussed and agreed to between your friend and the Pro.</p>

<p>Watch where the pro is shooting and try to stay out of his/her shots as much as possible ... like during the dance shots ... try to stay on the same side of the dance floor as the pro. </p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p> </p>

[c._f.]

<p>My 2 cents... George,<br>

- Will the Professional be understanding or annoyed at my presence? How will I make sure I don’t get in his/her way/shots or tread on his/her toes?<br>

<strong>Your friends have to contact the hired pro and tell him about YOU. He might ask that you call him so you two can discuss things. One my colleagues does precisely that when clients tell him about another photographer or videographer. </strong><br>

- Basics of exposure.<br>

I have read Caucasians look best at +1 stop?<br>

<strong>You're shooting digital, see what you get. I'd love to tell you on EV compensation but I'm shooting manual.</strong><br>

- Aperture priority?<br>

<strong>Same as above</strong> .<br>

<em><strong>Few additional points.</strong> </em> .. You are there as a guest thus enjoy your self. I'd recommend using flash, at least see if you can borrow one. Shooting wide open doesn't take a lot of <em>brain power</em> but doing it right takes skill and practice - be careful at your focus points.<br>

Last I remember, 5D does a pretty decent job at ISO 1600, it has been a while since I used one, when it gets a bit darker, jump to 1600 black/white and see what you get - you might like the results.</p>

<p>Good Luck and Enjoy the Wedding.</p>

<p>Adam</p>

[travvel]

I found this very useful:

http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00UrFo

 

With a 5D Im sure you will have no problem shooting w/o flash and using the ambient light may produce some nice result. You are in the position to experiment a bit..and and people will not notice you so much if you have less on your camera like a flash..hence the ability to take candid shots.

 

I'm passing information from my post.Hope this helps

 

rgds. Giuseppe

[davebell]

<p>Good comments above, but if you want to stand out like a sore thumb then toting a 5D and that big lens attached will get you there. I would recommend a fast prime, 50mm F1.8, or a 35mm as Neil metioned above.</p>

[davebell]

<p>In fact the 5D is even okay at 3200, possibly with a gentle touch (very slight) of Noiseware if desired, or as is and converted to BW.</p>

[savagesax]

Make your life easier. Rent or buy a flash, the results will be worth it. Without a flash unit, if the reception room is somewhat dark you will have issues with simple things such as the the camera not wanting to focus.

 

Ask the pro if he/she has any rules or suggestions about where you should or shouldn't be.

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>See if the pro will let you use his/her flash! JK. Use P mode and ride the ISO enough to keep your shutter speed above 50-60. Your lens selection will work great. Remember your not under pressure to deliver like the pro is. So take a few pictures, chimp and adjust. Have fun. v/r Buffdr</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em>"My friend has asked me to take ‘candid’ shots at her wedding next month. She has a professional photographer contracted for the wedding but asked me to take these shots in addition to the professional. I told her I would do it. I understand ‘candids’ to mean, for example if the professional is getting a picture of the kiss, I would be getting a shot of the brides mother’s reaction to the kiss for example?"</em><br>

<em></em><br>

After re-reading your question I began having a really uneasy feeling about what your assumptions were/are. I assumed that the bride asked you to take some candids in the capacity of you being a GWAC (guest with a camera). However, after reading your thoughts about capturing the MOB's expression to their first kiss, I realized that your assumption may be completely different than mine. In fact, to get this shot in a church wedding, you would have to position yourself at the front of the church near the wedding party and as a working pro, I would be very annoyed with this behavior from a GWAC. There's a significant difference between getting some nice candids (happy snaps) as a guest and "strutting" around as an official, semi-official, quasi-official wedding photographer.</p>

<p>I would suggest that you clarify exactly what your role is meant to be with both the B/G and the pro photographer well before the wedding day to ensure that you are all on the same page with your expectations and assumptions.</p>

[zlatko]

<p><em>Will the Professional be understanding or annoyed at my presence? How will I make sure I don’t get in his/her way/shots or tread on his/her toes?</em> This depends on the individual. Don't block their view and try not to be in their shot.<br /> <br /> <em>Basics of exposure. I have read Caucasians look best at +1 stop?</em> No, that would apply only for a close-up facial portrait of a light-skinned person. You should base exposure on the overall scene and what parts you want to emphasize. Zero should be your default exposure compensation setting, then go plus or minus depending on how you want the overall scene to appear. Exposure is too big a topic for this brief reply. Practice!<br /> <br /> <em>Aperture priority?</em> Yes, as you're not using flash, aperture priority is generally a good approach. Just watch that it's not giving you too-slow shutter speeds. Set the ISO higher if needed.<br /> <br /> Candids are simply unposed photos. They can be lovely and meaningful, or boring and empty. You have to decide what is important to photograph, and what you can practically achieve.<br /> <br /> The 70-200 zoom is very useful if you really want to stand back and have the room to do so. The image stabilization is wonderful. However, if in a smaller space, it may be too big and attract too much attention. In that case, you may do better with your 50mm or (if you had it) an 85 or 100mm lens. The suggestion of a 35mm lens is excellent if you're comfortable getting close and like to include more of the setting.<br /> <br /> The above suggestion to ask to borrow the pro's flash is a bad idea, IMO. That would likely annoy the pro, and you would be using a flash you've never used before (and using up their batteries). On the other hand, having a flash may be a good idea, depending on the lighting at the location. But using flash properly is a lengthy topic and it would take some practice to learn it well.</p>

[neilambrose]

<blockquote>

<p>See if the pro will let you use his/her flash</p>

</blockquote>

<p>They won't.</p>

<p>If someone is a pro their equipment is insured and they're working under a public liability schedule. Both conditions would be broken if they lent their equipment to a third party. Also, any gear taken to a wedding has a purpose - especially a flash, since that's the one piece of equipment most liable to sudden failure, even if it's simply overheating or running out of power. There's no such thing as 'spare' - everything is on hot standby.</p>

[wpahnelas]

<p>"See if the pro will let you use his/her flash! JK. "<br>

i took "JK" to mean, Just Kidding!</p>

[neilambrose]

<p>Ah - that would make more sense :-)</p>

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>Yes, JK is just kidding. It seemed funny at the time.</p>

[george_harris3]

<p>Gee thanks all for the insightful advice.<br>

I guess I hadn’t given too much thought to the whole situation. The conversation went like….<br>

“You take nice photos”<br>

Thanks<br>

“Do you want to take candids at the wedding”<br>

Sure.<br>

Needless to say I really do need to clarify with the bride. I am just a guy that has a good camera and will probably get some better shots with than the P+S brigade (IQ I mean)<br>

Id rather not be skulking around the front of the church so I think Ill just clarify with her that yes Ill have the camera “that takes good shots” as I have been told so many times and Ill gladly share any photos I do take with her but please not to expect anything because people photos are not my thing.<br>

I had imagined that the big white zoom to be perfect so I was a bit surprised to be steered away from it but I do see the point that it is perhaps a bit too long.<br>

Thanks again all. </p>