Help. K10D Started Acting UP

[jemal.yarbrough]

<p>Ok, I was at a fashion shoot, and was shooting Raw+Jpeg in a relatively dark environment. Took approximately 200-250 actual photos. The camera was doing fine snapping away. But when we got to the actual fashion show part, I switched lenses to a Vivitar 28mm F2.0 M lens. I set it for hyperfocal distance (to make sure I could just get the fast moving models), popped on camera flash, and started to shoot. That's when it went to hell. It took a photo, but then would not take another one for a few seconds. Then it would take another photo and the cycle would repeat. Now before you ask, I thought, hmm is it writing to the card? But no, I could see the light go off. (And earlier it was shooting way faster with no writing problems). This is actually the second time this has happened, maybe even third.<br>

So my question, what the heck is going on? Is it that my card is filling up (I still had some large number of shots left)? Is the camera overheating? Anyone else seen this odd behavior?</p>

[tim_bradshaw1]

<p>How long does the flash take to charge?</p>

[orly_andico]

<p>If you are using an M lens, the flash (assuming it's a Pentax P-TTL flash) will only fire at <strong>full power</strong> . If you set the flash to "A" mode then it will use reflected light, but with a wide lens and relatively dark background you would still be firing at full power a lot if using low ISO.</p>

<p>At full power the AF360FGZ takes several seconds (3-5) to recharge from a full power discharge.</p>

<p>Maybe you should use higher ISO (ISO 400 is noiseless "enough" if you overexpose a teeny little bit), put the flash on "M" mode (not A -- which is easily fooled) then adjust the power until your subject is well-lighted. Should only take 2-3 tries (on the histogram, which is divided into 4 segments, each segment is approximately one full stop; so if you are underexposed and your maximum is at 50% then you need to increase flash power by 2 stops).</p>

[brad_n]

<p>I've seen several odd things happen with my K20D that all cleared-up once I cleaned the lens and body contacts with a pink pearl eraser. That has become my first action whenever something goes wrong. That's probably not it, but its worth a try, especially since the problem occurred following a lens change.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Orlando has it. It's an M lens issue I'll almost guarantee. There's no linkage to the camera with the lens so the camera has no idea what to do to set exposure and thus only works in full power. Same goes for M42 lenses.</p>

<p>As to Brads comments, cleaning the contacts with an M lens will have no effect. There are no contacts on the lens side. That is assuming it's an M lens.</p>

<p>If I can post a not of caution. Never ever clean lens contacts with an eraser or any other abrasive material. Use proper electrical contact cleaner. Why? because every eraser has some abrasives and the contacts have a few thin microns of gold only on the surface because it does not oxidize. You will quickly wear that gold off after a few cleanings and then you'll have corroding body or lens contacts.</p>

<p>Use electrical contact cleaner.</p>

[orly_andico]

<p>Funny thing is.. I'm not sure the K10/K20 will lock the shutter while the flash is charging up. I seem to recall it will take the shot even if the flash can't fire (ending up with a very dark image). Or maybe that's just with dumb flashes or wireless triggers, which I admit to use a good bit.</p>

[mugundhan_varadanarayanan]

<p>As Orlando surmised, the flash is taking several seconds to recharge as it acted at full power. There is a custom mode where you can set the camera not to fire until the flash is recharged. If you dont enable it, then K10D fires even if the flash is not ready and this creates a dark image. Check your camera settings whether you had the camera not to fire until flash is recharged...</p>

[mcmanamey]

<p>I have a stupid question: was your focus switch on the camera set to Auto focus or Manual?</p>

[orly_andico]

<p>Good point, Maria.. it could be that simple.</p>

[kfrog]

<p>It's broken. Dang K10D are getting too old. Time to get a K7.<br>

Just practicing for when/if something like that happens to my K10D so I know what to tell my wife. :)<br>

Sorry I have no idea what the problem is you're having but a tend to side with Orlando's recommendation.</p>

<p> </p>

[jemal.yarbrough]

<p>Ok, I think my poor phrasing of the facts may have thrown people off. By the time this occurred the 540 flash gun batteries had died. So I literally popped up the on camera flash. I suppose that it may not have fired while the on camera flash recharged, but that is unlikely because I was shooting with a spare fresh battery in the grip, AND, it stopped the next day and I hadn't recharged the battery. I will check to see if it was set not to fire unless the flash went off too. <br>

as for the M lens, it was set to about f16 or f11 (the two lowest f-stops on the lens) and about 125 or 180 shutter speed, and set for manual focus (cause I was using the hyperfocal distance). Changing lenses that night did not help, because my cousin noticed it when we traded cameras after his batteries died in his k2000.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Getting all the details to assess this is tough. So the Vivitar is an M lens (no electrical contacts) correct? OK if so then that's the first part of the problem. It doesn't matter which flash. If it's PTTL, then you're going to have problems with <strong>ANY</strong> M or M42 lens. <em>It will not work</em> . I own several including the same Vivitar lens (It comes in several versions, so I wasn't sure which you had) and can confirm that PTTL flash which needs lens data to function, can't work correctly with a lens that does not communicate to the body.</p>

<p>You said it stopped the next day? Stopped what? Stopped having a problem? Stopped working? I don't know what this means. The F stop will have nothing to do with the flash firing or not, just the exposure. As long as you were under 1/180th shutter speed, you were OK there.</p>

<p>Second you changed lenses to what? Please be specific, we're guessing here to try and help you. If it was another lens without contacts, you're going to see the same problems. Charge your camera batteries fully and the AF540 batteries. Put an A, F, FA, DFA DA etc lens on the camera and test it to see if there's really a problem or this is just using the wrong lenses with a PTTL flash.</p>

[snik75]

<p>There is a setting that will allow or not allow the camera to fire before the flash is fully charged, when the flash is popped up. That may be something to look at.</p>

[jemal.yarbrough]

<p>Ok here are more details:<br>

1. When the night started I was shooting an FA 28-105 lens with the 540. Camera worked fine.<br>

2. I switched to the 40mm limited with the 540. Camera worked fine.<br>

3. I shot the Vivitar 28mm M lens with the 540. Camera worked fine.<br>

4. I did the bulk of the problem free shooting with the FA 28-105. <br>

5. The batteries in the 540 died, so I took it off the camera and used the pop up flash. This worked fine, albiet a bit slow to focus. <br>

6. Again, I used the FA 28-105. <br>

7. We started to go downstairs and I switched the lens back to the Vivitar 28mm M. Because I'm not shooting moving targets in low light, I slip the camera into manual focus, pop up the on board flash (which is set to full matrix metering), put the cameral in M mode, dial in 125 or 180 shutter speed, and go to f/11 or f/16.<br>

8. As I start to shoot now I am getting long delays between firing. (I just checked the camera. Release when charging is set to Off - This may be the problem).<br>

9. The camera continued to have long delays before letting me take pictures when we went back upstairs. Up there, my cousin took my camera and attached a F 28-90mm Pentax onto my body and the camera was put back into autofocus and Aperture priority modes.<br>

10. I did not notice the problem the next day.<br>

11. I have the fa 28-105 on the camera now. Just popped the on board flash up, and took 3 photos with flash. Camera worked fine and the photos were taken quickly. The batteries have not yet been recharged. So the internal setting not to trip the shutter should not have kicked in, but when reading the description of what that setting does, it felt like that was what was occurring at the time.<br>

12. The 540 was not really involved at all in the issue. The issue occurred while using the camera's built in pop up flash. </p>

[orly_andico]

<p>I have just duplicated your observation.</p>

<p>K20D with Chinon 28mm f/2.8 "M" lens, pop-up flash. Set to Manual Focus mode.</p>

<p><strong>The default setting is to suppress the shutter firing if the flash isn't fully charged</strong> .</p>

<p>Now with any "M" lens the internal P-TTL flash only fires at full power (the matrix settings etc. are totally irrelevant). So, since it takes 3-5 seconds for the flash to recharge between firings, you cannot trip the shutter during that time.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>Jemal, that's a great description of the situation.<br>

I just did the same with mine and the exact same Vivitar lens. My findings are identical to Orlando's</p>

<p>So as he suggested, there's nothing wrong with the camera and it's working exactly as it should. It can't communicate with an M or M42 lens and has no idea what the proper exposure settings should be. As far as the camera is concerned (electronically), there's no data to work with for metering and adjusting the flash. It will only fire at full power when fully charged in that mode. </p>

<p>I would suspect you had the power stepped back a little on the 540 and as a result the flash could recycle to full power faster (1/2 or -1.0 is almost instant) and thus you didn't notice there was an issue with the Vivitar. Since flash exposures are controlled by the aperture you choose, if you 'chimped' a few shots and got the exposures you wanted, even though the PTTL system isn't working, you got decent exposures.</p>

<p>So it was completely the lens. Nothing more.</p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>The good exposures you got with the "M" lens were a happy accident. With such a lens, your flash does indeed fire always at full power, and takes longer (delay) to recharge for the next shot. Your smaller apertures, f/11-16 in this case, cut effective flash distance considerably, so the full flash power became weakened in its effect at the distance you were aming for, thus preventing the overexposure that the full-power, unregulated flash would normally produce.</p>

<p>Full-power flash can be used with your camera, but that does entail longer recycle times, as well as requiring careful calulation of ISO setting, aperture, and distance to get a good exposure. It also entails more battery power, which will run out of juice sooner rather than later.</p>

[jemal.yarbrough]

<p>This is why I love you guys. Pentax users rock! I never thought about having to recycle/recharge the onboard flash because it always feels nearly instantenous. I knew that I was firing at full power, which is why I quickly swung the apertures to the high end. (I was close, so I wasn't that concerned about the flash distance). And I admit, that I chimped a bit. (Got a little noise in the photos for my troubles..I'll upload one or two when I'm done processing).<br>

That only leaves the question of why it failed to fire with my cousin's FA 28-90mm. I assume, that it is the same setting about not firing before flash recharges and the fact that he was trying to throw light across a darkened room, causing the camera to completely deplete the charge.<br>

Thanks again everyone.</p>

[personalphotos]

<p>I can think of one thing. Possibly that he wasn't getting a focus lock on the moving models. You're working in low light and moving subjects. So if the camera/lens doesn't lock focus on the subject, nothing will fire.</p>

[jemal.yarbrough]

<p>Only problem again is my description. When my cousin slipped the FA 28-90 on the camera to shoot, the people were sitting down and posing, not movement at all. But in looking at his photos, I noticed that there is no flash firing either in several of them, and he too complained that the camera wouldn't fire. I am going to assume that the flash also overheated a little bit causing it to slow down between flashes/recharges. </p>