My First Ever Leica! ....M6TTL- Arrived with Broken Rewind Crank?

[jack_grieve]

<p>I just purchased my first Leica. It arrived in great looking condition as described. It had a film inside. I shot the remaing frames and went to rewind. I flipped the rewind lever, folded out the crank and started rewinding.... Instant feedback problem- no tension?? I wound and wound- nothing. Open the camera and the film has not moved. Sprockets are unlocked- crank turns smoothly: nothing.<br>

unwound the film easily using a spoon end inserted into the bottom of the film cartridge:<br>

the problem is the rewind crank: the little fork inside looks perfect but spins freely as does the crank on top- they do not engage each other at all. No sign of damage and the screws in the crank part are present and seem tight. I though perhaps I am missing something- a switch that engages the two- but I seriously doubt it. I was tempted to yank the crank outwards but that's not the leica way is it?<br>

any one know what this could be? I have tried a few google searches but no dice. Any help much appreciated. I have just ordered an M9 and was expecting really solid quality from Leica.... now this. This camera shows minimal use and zero damage- I test thousands of vintage cameras in my job- and problems with the rewind crank are rare- beyond a loose screw-0 crank are generally simple. I notice this one is on an angle- which I guess indicates more complicated gears- which I guess have failed on me?</p>

<p> </p>

[ray .]

If you flipped the rewind lever and it locked down before rewinding, then there's something wrong with it. I'd return it or if

need be get it repaired. I've had no problems in many years with this issue, so I wouldn't extrapolate it to being more than it is. It got damaged or worn somewhere along the way. Happens to the best of 'em. It's also a little odd that it would be sent to you with film in it.

[jack_grieve]

<p>it was odd that their was film in there. I fired off a few frames, before opening the camera- and seeing the film- which upon my seeing it was presumably ruined... I don't think I would send it back as it came from the USA to Australia. I believe the seller was unaware of the issue in all liklihood.<br>

funnily enough I ran into a camera tech at a fleamarket a few months ago- and he gave me his card. I gave him a call- turns out he lives 10 minutes from me- and is leica (solms) factory trained (hasselblad as well).<br>

he says there is a small screw inside that engages the crank to the gear- that must be loose. Will have to take off the top cover to tighten it. Remove 20 screws to tighten one. He says it is a case of poor assembly (no drop of threadlock) at the factory in that era, and certainly the camera shows barely any signs of use- and no damage whatsoever. The only cosmetic issue is tiny 'dimples' in the black paint. Apparently that was due to bad paint and there is a chance Leica will repaint it? It's pretty minor by my tech said it will get worse... Anyhow I will probably drop the M9 off tomorrow. There is a video of taking of the top of an M9 on youtube- and if I had the clamps I think I could do it. However I won't risk my first Leica when I have a factory trained tech around the corner.</p>

 

[alastair_anderson]

<p>This is a little confusing. Why would you want to take the top off the M9? Which film Leica is it that has the rewind problem? And yes, if there is any repair to be done, let the competent person do the job.</p>

[john_lawrence4]

<p>Sorry to hear this.</p>

<p>If the M6 TTL is faulty then I would return it to the seller, or at least contact the seller and ask for the full cost (or at least a contribution) to the repair.<br>

<br />I've never had this problem with my M6 TTL.</p>

<p>Also, just out of interest, what job is it you have where you test "thousands of vintage cameras"? </p>

<p>John</p>

[jack_grieve]

<p>sorry Alistair- the way my post is written- is a little confusing- and at the end I referred to the M6 as an M9. we are talking an M6. I also ordered an M9- and if there was a problem with that: don't worry I wouldn't take the top off.</p>

<p>John,<br /> just bad luck I guess. A single screw has worked loose (hopefully that's all it is). I have emailed the seller and am waiting for a response. I believe it was a genuine error. I got the impression that my repairman is not going to charge much for the repair, and I would rather repair it than send it back. I will have him check the RF while he is in there- but the viewfinder looks beautiful.</p>

<p>concerning my job- it's actually not my full time caper any more- but I spent 6 years as a camera dealer- buying and selling photographic equiptment. I still go to a lot of estate auctions and pick up anything that catches my eye- but I used to buy every camera- now I am a little more discerning. Over time I handled thousands of cameras, testing them, and doing some basic repairs. Must say not much leica gear though- it is very rare that it shows up at an estate sale. I ammased a large collection of cameras- and I am currently selling a lot of it to fund this M9 craze I have got caught up in.</p>

[john_lawrence4]

<p>Jack,</p>

<p>Thanks - I was intrigued and wondered where to send my C.V. to!</p>

[alastair_anderson]

<p>My error. I forgot about the title of your post.</p>

[Gus Lazzari]

<blockquote>

<p>"he says there is a small screw inside that engages the crank to the gear- that must be loose." </p>

</blockquote>

<p>Jack please correct me if I'm wrong, but knowing the simple rewind mechanism of the M6 ttl; there's no screw that engages a gear. In fact there isn't any gear at all in that area. It's a slanted "direct" shaft with a slot cut in to the end of it. This slot engages a "dowel" connected to the fork that connects the film. (No gears here, dowel broken or bent)</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p> "He says it is a case of poor assembly (no drop of threadlock) at the factory in that era"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry Jack, but that's <strong>absolute rubbish !</strong></p>

[t_nu_tamm]

<p>Jack, the rewind of my m4 is exactly like Gus described it - no screws or gears are visible in there. Maybe your repairman mistook your M6TTL for an MP? Also if that dowel is culprit, as Gus diagnoses, your repairman <em>needs</em> to recalibrate the rangefinder, as it must be removed to get access to the dowel.</p>

 

[robert_hooper1]

<p>I don't have an M6 TTL but I do have an M6. There is a set screw very visible just under knurled knob on the crank handle when in the folded position. Unfold the crank an you can see that it probably attaches the crank wheel to the crank shaft. You can access this screw easily if your M6 TTL is the same as an M6 and that screw is the culprit.</p>

[35mmdelux]

<p>Looks like the orig seller dropped it like a hot potato. He couldnt rewind it either so he sold it to you with the film he/she couldnt extract.</p>

[jack_grieve]

<p>Ok- I will have to defer to the experts on this. It could be that I misrepresented what the tech told me- or misunderstood him. I would be surprised if there is a broken dowel- on a camera that shows virtually zero signs of use- why should it bend or break? The ony way I could imagine that happening is if the fil jammed and someone cranked the lever too hard- however there is no bending sisible on the crank arm...</p>

<p>I don't think the seller deliberately did this- they have a fine record- but they still havn't responded to my email- and if they don't by monday evening I will assume they did know about it- or hope I will go away- either of which is unacceptable... I am going to give the tech a call now and drop it off. I will post the results of the repair here in case anyone else has a similar experience.</p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>I would call or email <a href="http://www.sherrykrauter.com/">Sherry Krauter</a> to get a second opinion before handing it off to a stranger. Sherry will know what the problem is, guaranteed. Call her; she is easy to talk to.</p>

[jack_grieve]

<p><p>thanks for the tip, but, although the man is a stranger- he is called Charles Bridgwood. He lives only 1 km from me- and has offered to repair the camera - possibly for free. He really is Leica trained and has been called the Sherry Krauter or Don Goldberg of Australia. I spent over an hour on the phone with him yesterday and had a wonderful chat. He first visited the Leica factory with his father when he was 10 years old in 1950 something, and went again many times over the years finally getting fully trained there. He worked with the best here in Australia. He is also hasselblad factory trained and had some association with linhof. he really does know his stuff I think. It is an incredible coincidence that he is so close by- I can zip there on my 50cc scooter in 5 minutes.</p><br /> <p>anyhow he said I can watch him repair it and he is happy to show people how he works. Merely from speaking to him I am completely confident he is capable and has a good attitude towards these things.<br>

i will post the results here. </p></p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>Okay, Jack. Good luck and keep us informed. </p>

<p>Man, I wish Sherry Krauter lived down the street from me. ;-)</p>

[Gus Lazzari]

<blockquote>

<p>Jack stated: "they do not engage each other at all."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Robert H., the tiny set screw is there to lock in the knob from the possibility of somebody rewinding backwards and unscrewing from the shaft. Unless the <strong>threads are stripped</strong> (from the top of the shaft), it won't have the symptom described by Jack.</p>

[richard_francisco]

Jack, can you post the contact for Charles? I live in papua new guinea but travel to australia often so it might be better for me to send my Ms to him instead of to the US. I've got an M6TTL that needs a rangefinder adjustment and an M3 that needs a CLA. If Charles is indeed the DAG or Sherry of Australia, then my worries are solved!

[Gus Lazzari]

<blockquote>

<p>"Sorry Jack, but that's <strong>absolute rubbish !"</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong></strong>Richard, why are you ignoring my comment? This "whatever" of Australia, should add <strong>"story teller"</strong> to his nickname. <strong>No</strong><strong>thing he said was correct !</strong></p>

<p>See in the photo... just as I said. A dowel in the fork body and the slanted "direct" shaft with a slot cut in to the end of it. <strong>NO gears</strong>, no possible loose screws! In fact, the RW body screws were very tough to remove because of the LEBERAL use of Loctite !</p>

<p>Why would you want the contact info of an obvious liar? (No gears + Plenty of thread lock = LIAR)</p><div></div>

[richard_francisco]

Well, I can't say I know much about the parts in a Leica but I'll make note of your advice Gus and see how this all pans out. I always wondered though where all the Leica afficionados in Australia had their Ms fixed. I know Adeal is the distributor but Schimdt marketing in Singapore has always been more helpful for me.

[Gus Lazzari]

<p>Well just keep in mind that if you're <strong>SHARP</strong> and really <strong>KNOW</strong> the equipment, why the embelishment? It's not as though he's taking money out of his pocket by giving away a quick fix. This "story" of his <strong>reveals a lot</strong>...</p>

<p>Flat out, I'd ask this individual to provide paperwork/picture <strong>PROOF</strong> that he was <strong>trained at Leica & Hasselblad </strong>or he doesn't get my camera...</p>

[jack_grieve]

<blockquote>

<p>"Sorry Jack, but that's <strong>absolute rubbish !"</strong> <br /> Why would you want the contact info of an obvious liar? (No gears + Plenty of thread lock = LIAR)<br /> <strong></strong> Richard, why are you ignoring my comment? This "whatever" of Australia, should add <strong>"story teller"</strong> to his nickname. <strong>No</strong> <strong>thing he said was correct !</strong> <br /> See in the photo... just as I said. A dowel in the fork body and the slanted "direct" shaft with a slot cut in to the end of it. <strong>NO gears</strong> , no possible loose screws! In fact, the RW body screws were very tough to remove because of the LEBERAL use of Loctite !</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Gus- Settle down please... Please don't blame, or slander the man in question because of what I wrote. Read again what I wrote above in answer to you. I stated that I may have unintentionally misrepresented what he said. And what he did say was over the telephone without having seen the camera. Since then I have dropped it off to him. I actually mentioned that you had suggested there was no locking screw on the gear and he accepted that may be the case and said it was a long time since he worked on an m6- but had the schematics.<br /> I can assure you he is thoroughly trained and well regarded here in Australia. I had the pleasure of seeing his work area and equipment. Very impressive- his collection of screws alone is astounding.... If you are concerned about his credentials that is for you to research... but as I have stated he is known here by his work. That's all I will say on the matter.<br /> I will be getting the M6 back some time in the next week, and I will post the results of the failure here. For what it's worth I feel 100% confident that the repair will be perfect. I also feel pretty sure that the failure will be due to a defect at assembly- rather than missue or wear... we will see. looking at the picture you provided Gus- it seems that my issue will indeed be related to the little pin/dowel- is that threaded? If it was it would be a kind of screw.... think about that for a moment...<br>

I dropped of 3 hasselblad backs for repair and 2 olympus 35RD's for a shutter clean. I observed a Haseelblad back being rebuilt from the ground up to fix a frame spacing issue. The bck belonged to one of South Australia's best known landscape photogrpahers of many years standing...</p>

<p>and please- I really don't want a slanging match- I would rather the thread die until I post the results of the repair for posterity.</p>

[alexander_brunt]

Jack, I have the same problem as this and have been searching the

web for hours to find the solution to this!

 

Would love to hear your follow-up to find out what was actually

wrong!