lekha_h Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>I am hoping to make a profession out of photography. So far I have rented cameras to take pictures to see if I am cut out for it.Now I am ready to make the purchase. I would like to focus on -children, families, portraits, fashion shoots and occasional events, city sky scrapers and moving cars and interesting subjects on the road from a distance.<br>Now what would should I buy?<br>canon XSI / T1i- I know that this for amateurs and though I do belong in this category , I feel like I should just invest in the next best since the idea is to not remain an amateur. But I wonder how different getting a 50D would be in terms of quality . I read that what matters are the lenses more than the body. What lenses will work with XSI ?<br>Canon 50D -I read that this is an inbetween for an amateur and a pro. What lenses should I buy with this for the kind of shots I am looking to take ?<br>Any advice will be much appreciated.<br>thanks</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kel_madics Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>get a used Canon 5d classic and buy 24-70mm or a 50mm 1.4</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_ferris Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Second that.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>You cannot generalize equipment choices to "amateur" or "professional." I urge you to not "invest" in a supposedly professional camera quite yet - wait until your personal knowledge of photography in general and your own needs in particular lead you to specific equipment that will meet your needs.</p> <p>Making purchase choices because the equipment is "professional" is generally a very bad idea.</p> <p>My strong advice is to use a relatively inexpensive camera to get started. Move slowly - start with minimum gear rather than investing in everything at once. Shoot a lot. Look at the work of others. Try different things. Consider how your gear does or does not support the specific kinds of shooting you'll do. Eventually you'll acquire a base of knowledge and experience that will let you make smart decisions about your purchases.</p> <p>In the meantime be extremely leery about advice to "buy camera X because it is right for professional" photography.</p> <p>Dan</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_ferris Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Er, I second that too.....</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal_b Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>I cringe when I hear the words "amateur" and "professional" being used to clash one camera against another. Some cameras will be more durable than others because they are built on a stiffer metal frame instead of plastic, and some have rubber seals in the seams and under the buttons to keep out the rain. Aside from that, you can't expect a "professional" camera to give "professional" results where an "amateur" camera would have failed. Your results will depend only on you as the artist.</p> <p>That said, I also believe the recently out-moded Canon 5D classic is the best buy in used cameras right now. You can't go wrong with this one. However, if it's still too expensive and keeps you from buying a decent lens, settle for a cheaper camera and get the one lens you really want.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authoritee Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>All that has been said is very valid. Cameras do not make the "professional" look, it's the eye behind the viewfinder. Also, it is correct when you read that lenses are more important than camera bodies cause they provide better Image Quality and do not devaluate as much as the bodies.</p> <p>I'd recommend, just like Dan and Hal said, to get the used 5D together with a Canon 50 f/1.4 and start from there. If that's too expensive for you right now, you should go for the XSi and a Sigma 30 f/1.4.</p> <p>Erwin Marlin.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekha_h Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Thanks for your advice-Kel, Scott, Dan, Hal<br> Sorry that I had to distinguish the cameras as amateur and pro- thats what I read from the Canon description of each camera<br> Dan- I have been shooting with the XSI and got some really good feedback and then when I went to do a serious fashion photoshoot- I was stumped when I had to enlarge the picts and they looked pixelated or also the camera didn't seem to work well in low light conditions. (the gig was unpaid luckily ) <br /> I am confident of my artistic abilty at this point but very insecure of my technical ones so thats why I am wondering if I should get the better camera and learn the ropes from that.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekha_h Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>thanks Erwin</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdigi Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>"I was stumped when I had to enlarge the picts and they looked pixelated "</p> <p>How are your digital processing skills? How large did you blow them up?</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richsimmons Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>You don't mention what cameras you've rented so far besides the Xsi. But, if you do decide to get a used camera, make sure you get one from a reputable dealer like keh.com, because you don't know where the camera has been, the abuse it has taken and the shutter actuations it may have left. On the other hand, even though the 50D is not a full frame camera, it is a very good piece of equipment nonetheless. And with good lenses, it will be a fine camera to use. The 40D was a staple at many a wedding and still being used by many. The Xsi/T1i, for me, is way too small for my hands. You can get around some low light situation with better lenses and lighting/flash, but the smaller entry level cameras aren't known for low light quality. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwtphoto Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>a photographer makes the camera, the camera does not make the photographer. get what you can afford and keep it simple, let your experiences dictate what equipment you get in the future.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>If the prints from the XSi were pixelated, there are only a few possible explanations - since this camera should be capable of producing some relative large prints without that being an issue:</p> <ol> <li>You made <em>very</em> large prints - perhaps 20" x 30" or larger. (In the past I have made prints up to 16" x 24" from a well shot 8 MP cropped sensor image.) </li> <li>You did something during the post-processing workflow to lower the resolution of the images - perhaps you actually down-sampled them to smaller pixel dimensions?</li> <li>The problem isn't actually "pixelation," but perhaps something related to noise? This could be an issue if you shot at a very high ISO or if you underexposed and attempted to compensate in post.f</li> </ol> <p>I want to use this as an illustration of why "buying a 'professional' camera and lenses" may not be the best approach at this point. It seems to me that you noticed some issue with your photographs... but that you aren't really at all sure what the source of the problem is. Given what you have written, I think that this problem is almost certainly <em>not the result of using the XSi</em> , but more likely a technique (shooting, post-processing, or printing) issue.</p> <p>If you got the most expensive 'professional' body you could get - let's say a 1Ds3 or a 1D3 - and a bag of L lenses and did everything else the same way... the results would likely be the same as what you got with the existing gear.</p> <p>There are fine reasons to get any of a wide variety of cameras and lenses, some of which are labeled "professional" by the manufacturer - but at this point I am pretty certain that it makes more sense to continue to learn using the gear you have first.</p> <p>Dan</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekha_h Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Tommy- I use photoshop and am good with it since I am graphic designer by profession.I had it blown to 24 /36.<br> Rich- I did find some good deals at keh.com. Have you purchased used cameras from them before ?<br> Dan- You are right on the ISO- maybe it was the noise that made it look blurry. thanks for your advice.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_wagner1 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>I don't agree with the "don't get good gear until you know how to use it" approach. Get good gear and learn how to use. And I would not get a 50D under any circumstances, it's noisy and soft. I'd take a used 5d or even a 40d over the 50d any day. For lenses I'd get a used 70-200 f4 non-IS at some point early on in the process - cheap, high quality, and very useful.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal_b Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p> <blockquote>I was stumped when I had to enlarge the picts and they looked pixelated or also the camera didn't seem to work well in low light conditions.</blockquote> </p> <p>I really have to wonder, is it not okay to allow a little bit of ISO-noise or something to be visible when blowing up this large (2ft x 3ft)? Really, you must consider that a print this large does not require to be viewed any closer than about 2-3 ft at the closest. I would be surprised if this noise is problematic at this viewing distance.</p> <p>Any chance you can upload one of the pictures for an example of what is causing all the trouble?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Brett wrote: "I don't agree with the "don't get good gear until you know how to use it" approach."</p> <p>The problem is that you don't know what "good gear" is for you until you have a baseline of general photographic experience and of personal photographic experience. If you rely on advice from forums like this one you might decide - I've seen it happen - that some particular camera/lens is "good gear," only to find that for your shooting it is quite wrong.</p> <p>Though looked at another way, your "get good gear" advice is fine - as long as by "good gear" we don't necessarily mean "something expensive," "something some other photographer has," or "professional gear." If we mean "the best camera for someone just starting out with a DSLR for the first time," I'm with you.</p> <p>For most such people a camera like the XSi or the t1i with the IS kit lens is a great starting point. The experience gained using that lens is worth far more than the very small cost of the lens, and will give the user a good baseline for making much, much better choices when (and if!) it comes time to get more expensive equipment.</p> <p>Dan</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Hal:</p> <p>A bit of noise visible with close inspection in a 24" x 26" print from a crop sensor camera would be no issue at all. Though I'd generally not recommend going that big from a cropped sensor original with most subjects. You'd certainly see a bit of detail loss (in the form of a "plastic" appearance) at such a large size, and unless all aspects of the shot were handled very carefully (tripod, focus, aperture, etc.) there is a very good chance that you would not be hapy with the resolution/sharpness.</p> <p>You'd also be pushing beyond a native resolution of 180 - in other words your resolution would be lower than that, which isn't generally a great idea for photo quality images. You could uprez, though again there are issues to resolve.</p> <p>Getting such a big print from such a small original is no easy thing.</p> <p>Dan</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_asprey2 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Yep...get a used 5D for sure and stay Full Frame from the start. The is a lot of disappointment with the 50D out there. If the 5D was out of your range, then get a good used 40D. Thats a really good camera.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didymus Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>I am just starting out as well. I have the XSi with the 17-55 kit lens as well as some older EF lens (f/3.5 and f/4). I have shot around 3000 pictures with this camera and my images are progressively getting better. Both in sharpness and composition. This camera is more than capable of producing very fine images, just look around this site and check out the pictures taken with the XSi. It is technique (and a good lens), that produce the great images. There are some very good images taken with kit lenses, but obviously the better lenses are just that... better! There are some great images around taken with Point-and-Shoot cameras.<br> As for enlarging images: What resolution were you at? I generally work at 240 or 300 ppi. For enlarging, I tried Genuine Fractals which did a very good job, even up to 400%. That program is definitely on my wish list... after some Canon L lenses of course!<br> Save some money and get the XSi or T1i, and put the money saved towards better glass.<br> My two cents!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c jensen Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>In spite of all the great advice I've gotten on this forum, I still ventured down the path of trying to buy my way into being a better photographer. When I scan through photos on this and other websites, I see many, many photos taken with XT's, XTi's, etc; with relatively inexensive lenses; which are much better than any photo I've taken with a 5D mark ii and L lenses. Unfortunately my career doesn't lend much time to my hobby, but it doesn't stop me from tyring!<br> Start with something lower end and as you progress you'll figure out what you really want. And the used market is quite good for your stuff when you want to trade up.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_peters Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <p>Photography is NOT a profession, it is a trade.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g dan mitchell Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 <blockquote> <p><em>Photography is NOT a profession, it is a trade.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Explain?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pto189 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 <p><a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/pro-not.htm">http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/pro-not.htm</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdigi Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 <p>G Dan always makes great points so I would seriously consider what he advised.<br> <br /> Chris I feel the same way. A better camera will not give you better composition, better post processing skills, better understanding of lighting etc.. Its not like you spend $1500 on a 24-70 and your instantly a great photographer, however I do remember when I moved up from a really bad Tamron version of the kit lens and purchased a Tamron 28-75 2.8 I was amazed at how much better everything looked. The gear does help but ultimately not as much as one would think. I do get that shrinking feeling when I see so many great shots with such lesser gear then I have. I have to keep reminding myself I enjoy this and try to just learn from what I see.<br> <br /> Back to the OP. You got some great advice here. I guess a lot depends on your $$ situation. If you have money to spend go for something on the higher end, a 5d with a 24-XX lens or 40D with a 17-55 2.8 is a great pro set up thats pretty standard ( wide to short tele ). But a T1i with the kit lens and maybe a 35 2.0 or Tamron 17-50 2.8 would work just about as well. Maybe consider a flash too.</p> <p>As G Dan points out starting a little cheaper is probably good since you really do not know what suits you until you really get into it but a standard zoom is a pretty good place to start for most people. However, you really don't know until you start shooting more. You may like ultra wide, or you may like primes, you may hate lugging larger lenses and bodies, you may prefer the feel of 1 body over the other, etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now