D90 with i-TTL or just get some manual flashes

[zack_mccrory]

<p>I've been reading a lot on strobist lately, and really want to get a pair of hotshoe flashes.</p>

<p>So far my only experience with off camera flash has been my Alienbee and fill reflector. I get results that im happy with, by "eyeing" it and adjusting settings accordingly.</p>

<p>My first thought was to get a pair of SB600's so i would have a complete Nikon "system". I was content that was the path i should go down... untill i found out about the LumoPro LP120's. I can get a pair of them for basicly the same price as a single SB600.</p>

<p>SO my question is... if i went with a manual flash such as the LP120 or Vivtar 285's, and im selling myself short? My D90 is obviously capable of the whole i-TTL system, and it halfway feels like a waste not to take advantage of it. </p>

<p>Is i-TTL simply a technology for casual photographers to play with, and not used by serious photographers? I wouldn't consider myself a pro by any means, but i quickly grasped the process of using a monolight... so im wondering if the "auto" i-TTL would be a step backwards?</p>

<p>I plan to use the pair of SB600s as background/hair lights in addition to my Alienbee while indoors, and plan to use them by themselves with some light duty stands when i go outside.</p>

 

[chauncey_huffman]

<p>I use my D90 with my SB800 off camera all the time, and I love it. I'm going to buy a SB600 to use much like you're talking about. I use my SB800 right now for portraits indoors and outdoors. I want to add the sb600 for a hair light or just as a nice fill to complement the sb800. I personally would go the route of the Nikon's b/c the metering system is spot on and you won't have to worry about the exposure, especially outside. That's just my two cents. Good luck with your decision!</p>

[anthony_bez]

<p>One problem using a pair of SB600's off camera is you will have to use your pop up flash as the commander. You need an SB800 or SB900 as the commander to fire a SB600 off camera.</p>

<p>I use a SB600 occasionally mounted on my camera for i-TTL. But for "strobist" off camera set up I have three Metz 45's that I use in manual mode.</p>

[zack_mccrory]

<p>How does the i-TTL work with multiple flashes? Most of the stuff im reading about involves just a single flash.</p>

<p>Perhaps im looking at this all wrong, but my only concern with i-TTL is that its the flash equivilent to seeing your camera on "auto".</p>

<p>For example... say i wanted one flash to be 1 stop higher than the other to give a nice contrast across the subject. Will i-TTL allow me to do that or will it simply make the exposure even/correct?</p>

<p>So it takes a SB800 on-camera to fire the flashes off camera, even with a D90? I was under the assumption that a D90 could fire them (one of the thing i thought i read as being an advantage of my old D40). Whats the downside of using the pop-up flash to trigger the off-camera flash? Cant i simply turn the power down to where it doesn't effect exposure?</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Say you're using two CLS slaves (like a pair of SB-600's, as you're thinking about doing). When you put each unit into slave mode, assign them to different groups (say, "A" and "B"). Then, in the commander menu on your camera (or whatever you're using as a commander ... like an SB-800, or an SU-800, or an SB-900, if not the camera's pop-up flash), you can assign different behavior to the slaves in each command group.<br /><br />You can use iTTL if you want, and still tell the system to have the group "A" slaves back off by a stop, or a quarter of a stop, or three stops ... or to go a stop hot, etc. Group "B" might be doing something else. The camera's metering system will still to the iTTL thing, and try to get all of the exposure to make sense, but it will do so while honoring your request to have the slaves in different groups operate at different power levels relative to each other.<br /><br />OR, you can use the CLS command feature to tell the remote slaves when to fire, but to IGNORE the iTTL behavior. In the commander menu, you can also just set the power level in each group manually. No iTTL brains, just "Group A at full power, Group B at quarter power" - or whatever you like.</p>

[anthony_bez]

<p>Yes you can balance your flashes in i-TTL and the real benefit is you can adjust them from your camera.</p>

<p>Yes you can turn the power of your pop up flash down but it will still affect your image.</p>

<p>For "strobist" off camera use I would want at least one SB800/SB900 or a SU800 to use i-TTL. But I do not feel the need to buy one, I'm happy shooting manual with my Metz's. I do use monolights so balancing the light without i-TTL is normal for me.</p>

[Two23]

<p>You give us no idea of what you are trying to do with the flash, and where. That makes a big difference. CLS is fast and fairly accurate, but it can run into trouble when used outdoors, and it has less range than radio triggers such as CyberSyncs. What exactly do you want to light, and in what conditions? CLS just doesn't cut it for me since I like to light up really big stuff. If you are talking about simple portraits indoors, that's another story. What are lighting?</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<blockquote>

<p>Is i-TTL simply a technology for casual photographers to play with, and not used by serious photographers?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Short answer: No.</p>

<p>My use of on-camera flash dates back to manual calculation of guide numbers with completely manual flash. A step up from there was the pseudo-automation of some early 1970s cameras that would adjust the aperture along with the focus ring to suit the guide number of the manual flash. The next step was auto-thyristor flash and using a flash meter for other calculations.</p>

<p>No way in hell I'd want to go back to that for most on-camera flash use. Nikon's TTL flash is far superior to those methods for most expedient uses. After more than 30 years in photography it's revolutionized my use of on-camera flash.</p>

<p>Strobist has some good info, but it's too often misinterpreted by inexperienced readers who come away believing that Strobist is advising them that TTL flash is strictly for duffers and soccer moms. Too bad, because it tends to put them just a couple of notches above Rockwell on the credibility scale. Pay attention to what the site is actually saying - each technique is for a specific situation and purpose to augment automation, not to completely replace it. (And a few blog entries there should be avoided - like the "neck break" stunt for the SB-800.)</p>

[Two23]

<p>Strobist is all about using a flash off camera. We don't care how you do it. Keep in mind that many on Strobist are studio portrait photographers. They generally don't need TTL in a controlled studio environment. That's why I ask, what are you trying to do with flash?</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[Kent Shafer]

<p>I recently went through the same analysis. I decided to go with one SB-900 for on-camera magic as Lex describes plus some Vivitar 285HV's for strobist-style setups. I went that way because:</p>

<ul>

<li>Besides digital, I often shoot film with older Nikons and medium format, and the SB-600's automation wouldn't work with them. </li>

<li>For me, it's easier to think through the process by manually setting the power level on each flash, using trial-and-error for digital and a flash meter for film. If shooting digital only, one could do the same thing from the controller, as Matt says.</li>

<li>The Vivitars are half the price of SB-600's.</li>

</ul>

 

[zack_mccrory]

<p>So other than being limited to 2 groups instead of 3, is there any benefit of getting an SB800/900 to run on-camera?  I dont really like the look of on-camera lighting.<br>

<br><br>

Most of the shots i do will be in a semi-controlled environment (with the exception of a wedding i have comming up that im doing as a favor to the groom). <br>

<br><br>

The direction im working towards is glamour, and doing senior pictures, etc.  So far i've avoided shooting outdoors because of my monolight (even if i had a mobile power solution i wouldn't want to lug a 4' octobox around), so i want to get more mobile with the SB600's.  The SB600s will also be used on indoor shoots where i need a 2nd or 3rd light in addition to my monolight.<br>

<br><br>

So basicly i dont NEED the iTTL (my shooting environments allow me the time necessary to get set up), but if it works well it would definitely be a welcome convenience.  I was just worried that it would limit the ability to get creative with the lighting and not be consistent (like when a camera is on auto mode... and a set of 10 consecutive shots all look a bit different)<br>

 <br>

 </p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Nope, that's the beauty of CLS. Let's not get iTTL and CLS confused. The CLS allows you to control slaved flashes... and in doing so, can either command them in iTTL mode <strong><em>or</em></strong> in manual power mode. You get the best of both worlds, in that sense. <br /><br />When I happen to have a Nikon speedlight off-camera, I actually tend to use it in manual power mode, more often than in iTTL.</p>

[zack_mccrory]

<p>Matt- Thanks for pointing that out. I was assuming that CLS was what Nikon marketed iTTL as... and that they were one in the same.</p>

<p>Time to do some more research i guess. Im still on the fence. I cant decide if its worth it to stick with the 2-4x the cost Nikon flashes, or just buy a pair of LP120's and start having fun. All these auto features sure sound nice though...</p>

 

[brad_richardson1]

<p>G'day Zack, you may already be aware of this but in case you aren't, there is an excellent DVD available from Nikon where Joe McNally demos the Nikon CLS, its not expensive and if you haven't watched it I recommend you get a copy. I just wanted to mention this to you, I don't have Nikon gear, and I am considering what to get, but my analysis so far seems to indicate that the Nikon CLS is in a league of its own as far as off flash camera goes. McNally also has a couple of helpful books. I have not yet found a chart or whatever, indicating which flash / camera can control what groups. For instance I know that you have to go up to a D90 body before you get wireless flash capability in the Nikon camera bodies - but beyond that - how may groups - and which flashes - will each body control. Also the question of backwards compatibility - eg the D300 was released before the SB900 (i think) however I haven't seen confirmation that the d300 is completely compitible with the SB900 (it is usually mentioned with the SB800) - cheers </p>