D90 Image's plastic look?

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>I've found that some of the D90 pictures that I took look kind of plastic and in no way can be called sharp.. Attached are samples.. I've noticed its mostly in low light.. I shot with ExtraHigh D-Lighting</p><div></div>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>and here's another one</p><div></div>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I would avoid using direct, straight-on flash. Instead, try to bounce it off a reflection card. The problem is not in the camera.</p>

[richard_driscoll]

<p>Unless I am mistaken you are using ISO 3200 and flash at the same time which is perhaps a little unusual. It is possible that the noise reduction at 3200 is contributing to a lack of sharpness. Were you using program mode and balancing natural light and flash?</p>

<p> </p>

[eric friedemann]

<p>You are shooting at ISO 3200. While the D90 has excellent high ISO performance compared to, say, high-ISO 35mm film, shooting direct flash at ISO 3200 won't lead to optimal images.</p>

<p>Also, you have the sharpening set at "Hard." My guess is that the camera is struggling to optimize noise reduction, while being asked to sharpen the hell out of the image- not a good combination of settings.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Goog point Richard. I didn't check the ISO setting; it is indeed 3200. You lose dynamic range and if JPEG noise reduction is on, it'll also reduce sharpness.</p>

<p>When you are using a flash as the main light source, I would bring the ISO down to the base ISO 200 as much as possible. If that is not sufficient, use no more than 400 to 800.</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>Guys, you're all right.. I also put NR on ExtraHigh and yeah my sharpness was set on about 6. I liked the way Eric put it:

the camera is struggling to optimize noise reduction, while being asked to sharpen the hell out of the image- not a good combination of settings.

<br>

What settings do you prefer using when shooting during such a low light condition? How do you get the sharpest image? Should I turn off NR completely and so D-Lightning? Or there's some optizmied settings for this?</p>

 

 

<p > </p>

 

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Active D-Lightning underexposes by a little, which will always come at the cost of some extra noise. At ISO3200 (where the D90/D300 are already seriously noisy) you don't want extra noise for sure. So, yeah, for low-light/ High ISO I would certainly turn ADL off.<br>

In addition, I found that with ADL enabled, my flash also underexposed along, so it left me with some serious underexposure. But this is on a D300 and it might be the D90 is a bit better in this respect.</p>

<p>For NR, I've got mine set to [Low], and for most shots that is fairly nice balance between noise and detail. But I shoot RAW always, so for me this setting is more the "starting point" in Capture NX2... But in 99% of the cases, I am satisfied with this setting.<br>

I think the key to shots like these, under difficult light circumstances, is really shooting RAW. It offers more room to manouvre. I avoid ISO3200 on my D300, since it's essentially to noisy, unless there is no other way to make the picture. So, as Shun said, when using flash, no need to go beyond ISO800.<br>

In general, avoid the excessive settings ("extra high", "ultra sharp", "double whammy" and the like) on the camera. If such optimisations are necessary, they're better done afterwards.</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>I'll experiment with NR on Low and D-Light on Low too and ISO around 400 when using Flash.. During day time though, I found out that when shooting people stadning in the shadows area Extra High ADL gives the best detail and is really precise..</p>

[cc_chang2]

<blockquote>

<p>What settings do you prefer using when shooting during such a low light condition?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What kind of flash did you use? What were the settings for the flash?</p>

<p>The use of Active-D lighting will slightly degrade IQ so use it when it is absolutely necessary, but not as a default. If your subject is standing in the shadow, you should use "fill-in" flash to brighten up the subject to balance it with the much bright background. If you do it right, no D-light is needed.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<ul>

<li>Avoid direct, straight on harsh lighting, be it the mid-day sun or direct flash (that is why I only use the pop-up flash for CLS control and also avoid the SB-400). If necessary, bounce your flash off a reflector when there is no ceiling to bounce.</li>

<li>Use the lowest ISO you can get away with.</li>

<li>Turn off those aggressive noise reduction and sharpening. I also rarely use Active D Lighting.</li>

<li>If you want to get further, shoot raw and learn to post process.</li>

<li>You can also experiment with adding a little fill flash on people outdoors during day time.</li>

</ul>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>On-camera flash gives rather flat lighting. The diffusion dome can make lighting look more natural and eliminate objectionable shadows. You also need to consider the location of your subjects and the correct plane to focus on. Groups with one person showing their back to the camera would not be something I'd show to a client (or relative). All else being equal, the camera will try to focus on the nearest subject, in this case leaving the other subjects OOF.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>Direct flash is okay, but when you get close to people as in these shots, you might want to dial the power of the flash down a little bit. Look up Flash Compensation in your user manual.</p>

<p>What optimization mode did you use? What white balance did you use?</p>

<p>Use the lowest ISO that you can. 800 should be fine for a shot like this if you're shooting at f/5.6 or f/8.</p>

<p>Avoid noise reduction unless you're sure that it's absolutely necessary. Avoid tricks like Active D Lighting unless you have done a lot of testing and know how they behave.</p>

<p>It's a good idead to start with the camera set to default values for just about everything - no NR, Auto White Balance, no noise reduction, low to medium ISO, "Standard" optimization mode, no tricks - and then adjust only the parameters that you MUST change in order to get the shot.</p>

[mark liddell]

<p>The pictures you have posted have extremely heavy noise reduction applied. If you want to shoot at high iso turn in camera noise reduction off and handle it in post with software since it does a much better job, ideally shoot raw too.</p>

<p>Given the conditions there isn't much else you could have done, you could probably have shot a slower shutter speed than 1/60 and a lower iso since the flash would freeze any motion of the people. If you were OK with a darker background you could also have used more flash power to get a lower iso.</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>I appreciate your suggestions! Back to Dan's questions:<br />"What optimization mode did you use? What white balance did you use? "<br />It was on Standard, WB was on Auto. NR was on Extra High, ADL was on ExtraHigh as well. I think I pushed it to the limit and its what I got..</p>

<p>CC Chang, I was using SB600.<br />I do have LumiQuest Softbox 3 which is the biggest you can get, but since it was just a friend's birthday I didn't want to put it on :) <br />Shun, Edward and Mark, thanks so much for the suggestions.. COnditions, were truly horrible like some people noticed.. My lens was a slow 18-105 one, I gave it a try with natural light but just was too dark.. Now I know that settings messed it all up..<br />Are there some situations when you guys use those ExtraHigh settings for any type of situation?</p>

[eric friedemann]

<p>1. To cut down on the harshness of direct flash I use a Nikon SB-800 flash pointed straight up with a Gary Fong LightSphere II and a Chrome Dome: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/495450-REG/Gary_Fong_LS2_PRO_1_Lightsphere_II_Inverted_Dome.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/495450-REG/Gary_Fong_LS2_PRO_1_Lightsphere_II_Inverted_Dome.html</a></p>

<p>2. For shooting at higher ISOs, I like to shoot RAW + JPEG and work from RAW files. Before opening the image in Photoshop, I zero out the sharpening and noise reduction. As I alluded to above, you don't want to sharpen noise.</p>

<p>I first run the opened image through Neat Image to reduce noise:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.neatimage.com/">http://www.neatimage.com/</a></p>

<p>Then I do a light capture sharpening in PhotoKit Sharpener. After making my corrections in Pshop, I then do output sharpening tailored to the image's final size and the media it will be printed on:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.pixelgenius.com/sharpener/">http://www.pixelgenius.com/sharpener/</a></p>

<p><a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/software/pk-sharpener.shtml">http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/software/pk-sharpener.shtml</a></p>

[eric friedemann]

<p>And, as has been said above, I'm not a fan of Active D Lighting. Instead, while making corrections in Pshop, I use the Shadow slider of Highlight/Shadow tool sparingly to pull out shadow detail without making the image look obviously digitally-enhanced:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.tutorialsroom.com/tutorials/graphics/fixing_backlight_photos.html">http://www.tutorialsroom.com/tutorials/graphics/fixing_backlight_photos.html</a></p>

<p>I've toyed with ADL on my D700 and find that, even on lower settings, it can look a bit theatrical.</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>Eric, that helps a lot. I appreciate your workflow process! I just done simple experiment. Image number 3 is No ADL and NO NR with sharpness on 9 on SD :)<br>

Image number 4 is on ExtraHigh ADL and ExtraHigh NR sharpness also on 9 and put on SD</p><div></div>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>And</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>Another #4</p><div></div>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>To comment on Eric's workflow: I found the Adobe RAW conversion for high ISO files of my D300 (and the D90 is essentially the same) very much below par. Adobe introduces far more noise, esp. colour noise, and has mediocre sharpening. For comparison sake, also install and try ViewNX (which is free and can do basic RAW tasks) or CaptureNX 2 (60 day trail). There is a good chance you will find the results are nicer. Once I saw the results coming from Nikon's own tools, I switched to Capture NX and frankly never looked back, even though I had my catalog in Photoshop Elements all configured, tagged and indexed.<br /> While Eric's workflow will certainly work, in my experience avoiding Adobe RAW conversion eliminates the need for a dedicated noise tool like NeatImage (or NoiseNinja). And the less tools needed, the happier I get. But your view might be different there.</p>

<p>Also, I'm interested to know, what do you feel yourself that these last 2 pictures show? To me, the result of #4 could easily have been done with highlight/shadow recovery. So, it does not show (to me at least) that the most aggressive ADL setting is a necessity here?<br /> And why the extreme in-camera sharpening?</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>Wouter on the 4-th NR is set on extra high, it smothes out the image to get rid of the noise right in the camera, I believe it added to the plastic (smooth look) on the picture posted of those 3 people above. in those shots( of 3 ) theres not much noise but theres a plastic look.. I want it sharper. If you look at the table the oil bottle stand on you can see that on the 4-th it's smoother and looks more plastic, also the part of the oven does, than on image 3... All I am trying to find out is what settings mess up the sharpness...<br>

I set sharpness on 9 to get the most out of the in the camera sharpenning and see what it gives me with different settings</p>

[brooks_lester]

<p>I'd reduce your NR setting somewhat to get rid of that plastic-y look.<br>

I shoot my D700's pop-up flash with ISO at 1600 and 3200 on many occasions - it's not counterintuitive at all - it allows much more of the ambient light to appear in the image, which lessens the obviousness of the flash. If you combine this technique with gelling (color correcting) your flash to match the dominant ambient source, you'll get subtle but effective fill flash instead of snap shot-looking bright faces and dark backgrounds. In fact, the high ISO ability of modern DSLR's makes this technique easy and even current APS-C sensor cameras can pull this trick off at ISO 800-1600.</p>

[alesandro_shavit]

<p>yeah less NR will help :)</p>