ken_cope Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Shelley,<br> You have clearly been let down by any standards, and the pro photographers here are obviously very sympathetic, as well as disgusted by the discredit brought upon their profession by this sort of behaviour.<br> I think that I would, now, try to take the pragmatic approach suggested by Jack Aldridge, a few posts up^^^^. You say yourself that the day went without a hitch, so it would be wrong to keep "beating yourself up" that you could have done any more to prevent this hitch with the photos.<br> The one good thing is that everything can still be largely put right by another photo-session with a competent professional who is willing to make the effort to understand what you need, and the time and skill to put this into effect. And you'll then have a perfect and enviable set of photos to keep and pass on to your friends and family.<br> Oh, and not forgetting congratulations and good luck for the future.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_wisniewski Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Thomas</p> <blockquote> <p>Jim Morrison was an incredible observer of the human spirit. The above verse from the song The Soft Parade. has always been a mystery.</p> </blockquote> <p>Permit me to solve your mystery. That line is actually something he picked up from Dostoevsky. Jim Morrison was incredibly well read. You'll find paraphrases of Nietzsche, Baudelaire, Huxley, and quite a few others in his works. There's a list of his favorite books in a bio I have on him. <em>Crime and Punishment</em> is in the top ten. Here's the horse episode from <em>Crime and Punishment</em> . Section 1, chapter 5, translated by Constance Garnett.</p> <blockquote> <p>He ran beside the mare, ran in front of her, saw her being whipped across the eyes, right in the eyes! He was crying, he felt choking, his tears were streaming. One of the men gave him a cut with the whip across the face, he did not feel it. Wringing his hands and screaming, he rushed up to the grey-headed old man with the grey beard, who was shaking his head in disapproval. One woman seized him by the hand and would have taken him away, but he tore himself from her and ran back to the mare. She was almost at the last gasp, but began kicking once more.</p> </blockquote> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_lemko Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>First, I'd like to commend you on your measured, friendly, tactful, fair, and even-keeled presentation of what must, of course, be a huge bother for you, still. You didn't swear, you kept your composure, and kept your dignity, which is more than what mister and misses vendor have apparently done so far.<br> I agree with Jack a few posts above. In fact something I've seen done if you really have your heart in it-- ( and this is along the lines of trashing the photos)-- get ready--<br> Send the whole shebang back to her-- seriously- the book, all the photos, the plastic, so on, and tell her in a dry put polite fasion--<br> Since she decided to rip you off, and there's no going back to redo it, you thought that instead of ripping you off 80%, why not do it fully, and rip you off 100%-- so here's the book back and everything you sent me.<br> And Jack goes on to say- redo the pictures, take a trip, do the whole think again-- but you have to do this in a Zen kind of way-- totally clean yourself from the photos, and redo it in a way that you'll want to cherish. Do it willingly, not out of anger or spite, not out of regret. Do it like a second honeymoon or wedding (the restaging, reshoot). If you can't do it exactly this way, then don't take this approach. Get a kid from a Niagara area university to shoot you. Or see below.<br> Here, you can optionally tell her that you're forced to reshoot and restage, and that expect her for refund the 250$ plus a reasonable expense for your forced travel. She can either send you 350-450 bucks or so, or expect to see you in court. You can optionally sue for replacement photo and opportunity cost to get your reshoot by someone else paid for.<br> I think the 350-450 will be a steal for her. </p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherijohnson Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>The fortunate side of things is that not everyone out there is anything like these people. As a vendor we have never allowed others to book us on behalf of their client since we prefer to have contact with the clients directly. It just seems to work out better that way. I am certain you will have some great photos once you do your session with someone else.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_asprey2 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Two things: The wedding day can never be simulated later. I would go with seeing what other guests have and try to get ten good images from everything available.<br> Suing people can be risky and expensive. Most people in business have professional indemnity insurance, so you would end up suing a large insurance company. They tend not to lose. It can also be a hollow victory as what you want are good wedding photos, right?</p> <p>I'm so pleased to tell everyone that "wedding planners" are not the done thing here. Usually the couple, the couple's parents and the management of the reception venue do all that stuff, and the latter also know who the good photographers are as they are probably doing one wedding a week.</p> <p>But all the best. These things can sour what should have been your biggest day. At mine, my parents refused to come because there was a disagreement over the guest list. I was quite young and an only child. It stained the whole thing. I was numb for weeks after and didn't speak to them for months. I'm sure it contributed to our breakup later on. Don't let something like that happen.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtk Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Long ago friends, one a very successful painter and the other a teaching graduate of RIT under Minor White, had one photo to show from their wedding. It was more than enough: A simply framed 5X7 B&W of the couple with Suzuki Roshi, the priest who married them.<br> Different strokes.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melissapapajphotography Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Wow! What an awful experience. I am so sorry...the only thing I can say is that I cannot believe the way she treated you. Good luck!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bloch2 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Yes, you got screwed. I think the best option is to mail a letter asking for a refund of whatever amount you feel is fair and explain that you want the refund because the photographer the planner provided was unacceptable. Explain you will take legal action if you do not receive the refund by a specific date (give them about two weeks). If you do not get it, go ahead and file a smalls claims action. You may be able to do this by phone or by mail. You may get the refund when they receive the notice from the court, just to avoid a trip to court. If not, you will either have to go to court or forfeit your filing fee and forgot it if it is too far. If you go I think a judge would certainly see that you were treated unfairly and might give you your judgment.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claytontullos Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>In addition to contacting the BBB, I would leave them a negative review on every online listing of their company.</p> <p>google, etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesnjohnson Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Major "Conflict of Interest" here.<br> Wedding planner should have mention to you the photographer was her husband. Not telling what her relationship was with the other vendors she used.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 <p>Shelly,</p> <p>firstly I am so sorry you have had this happen. I just reshot a coulpe who had a similar experience to yours. Not the photog. husband being married to the planner, but to the brides sister.</p> <p>Anyhow, I would suggest getting (ASAP) setup to reshoot some of the two of you. Try to get a time at the venue that will be similar lighting/timing (even on a weekday).</p> <p>As for the current state of affairs; If you contract is fulfilled, you have little to no recourse legally (I am not an attorney) IMO. What you can do is complain to the BBB and other willing listeners about their deceptive treatment and subsequent lack of help/service. That will help prevent something similar happening for another couple. It will also affect their ability to do business. Next, contact all your other vendors and let them know how you are being treated, and what your experience is. This will help reputable vendors aviod dealing with them. Alas, I don't believe it will benefit you to take legal action against the photog. but you may have a case with the planner as she deceived you into hiring her husband.</p> <p>Who are these people?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nishnishant Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Sorry to hear about this. But it would be nice to hear the other side of the story too. Just for perspective.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_lemko Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>"Two things: The wedding day can never be simulated later. "<br> Never? May be the case for you-- isn't it their call if a second photoshoot and visit will make them happy?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregbokan Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Sorry to hear about your dilemma, sounds to me like a prime example of someone who thinks just because they own a high end camera it makes them a photographer. I worked at a camera shop for 5 years, and processed many "wedding photographers" work, most of them a disaster. I found it hard to believe that anyone actually paid money for most of them. I think the lowest amount of shots that we ever gave to a customer is 750. If you ever make it to the Cleveland Ohio area, we would be happy to comp. you some shots. I know they wont contain the memories of your Big day, But at least you will have some quality shots! hope this is helpful to you!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_clark8 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>I really hope it all works out for you and you get the photos you are happy with in the end.<br> As a photographer and one who covers Weddings I fully appreciate and understand the importance of getting the images, the memories you want and receiving a 'professional' service throughout the process. The photographic business and especially Weddings is a difficult business and quite clearly there are some out there who are just not cut out for it. Alas in this day and age some see it as a route to a quick buck.<br> If anyone is reading and you thinks that maybe you fit the bill then do the industry and the public a favour and pop down the job centre.<br> I know things work differently in some countries regarding legal issues etc but I would urge you to ensure that if you can review any service providers shoddy service provision then you do so, so others in the future can make a fairer assessment of what they might be getting themselves into.<br> Good Luck.<br> <strong>NB. Only bad photographers take bad photos.</strong></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_hitchen Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>I don't know about US, but in UK a contract that absolves them of anything going wrong would be in severe risk of being declared an unfair contract and then it would be open season (does their contract have a 'force majeure' clause - if not then more fool them!). And as a paid professional planner, any advice she gave would be expected to have an influence on decisions you make.<br> Does the contract say that she will attend the wedding? If it does then she is in breach of it herself - and if you mention she will realise she is immeidately liable to legal action. The comment from her colleague that she only attends big events shows some willingness to attend.</p> <p>Recreating the atmosphere and the 'feel' of the wedding can be difficult so is there anything else you can do? You prefer the informal shots, so one solution would be have a first anniversary celecbration? Invite as many people as possible from the wedding itself (if you explain why you are doing it more may turn up that otherwise would have done) and get a 'proper' photographer to take pictures. B&G wearing original wedding clothes may not be out of place.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warren_sheng Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Hi Shelley,<br> You have my fullest sympathy. In years to come, you might remember the bad experience but it gets less painful in time. After all, you are starting on the long journey of marriage and what happened in the first 6 hours is less important than the next 3 months/ years/ decades.<br> I do wedding photography on occasions. The lowest I ever charged was 23 pounds (about $35) and that included a double set of large prints. I did a good job; I was paid 2 months later! My own wedding was poorly photographed. The best photographer I had gave me the shots one YEAR after the wedding, only because I asked her a few times. But, that was over 22 years ago. Marriage is much more than 100 perfect images.<br> Enjoy your marriage. Enjoy your husband. It's a long, painful--and joyful journey together.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomwatt Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Shelley, my sympathies also. And consider making certain to make a note of this performance with the local Better Business Bureau, as well as any other outlets that might consider using this wedding coordinator. Your story is a reminder why I don't shoot weddings, and decided not to get into the wedding coordinator business full-time after pursuing it part time for a while.<br> If it's any consolation, my uncle shot my wedding for me, using his Mamiya Twin Lens Reflex. When the film came back, he discovered that the lens cap remained in place throughout, so no pictures.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukerossknecht Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Given that you're already $250 in, you might want to contact your state bar association and get an attorney referral. In some states such a referral will get you a half hour or hour consult for $25-$50 and you could at least get an idea of what kind of case you have even if you end up pursuing it in small claims without a lawyer.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrivyscriv Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Just a little musing on my part, but..</p> <p>My first wedding - very, very, first - I did as a favor to a friend. Gave them over 300 images on CD, some prints, a small album, and only spent $200.</p> <p>AND shot all in 35mm film. AND processed & scanned professionally.<br> Obviously your photographer isn't going to cut you a cost-plus-small-percentage rate, but that should give you an idea of what $250 CAN provide, when pressed with gaining a bad name, or losing more business, or having to refund a lot of money, by any reputable and good photographer, traditional posing or not.</p> <p>to echo others' sentiments, I'm very sorry you and your new husband got sucked into this mess. Niagra Falls - what a romantic place to get married :)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bass3 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Shelly:<br />First off, sorry to hear of your troubles, but I agree with many others here to move forward, and make the lemonade...<br> <br />Use the existing pictures as a "joke" album, and maybe decorate it with stickers and handwritten notes as if making a scrapbook, trying to make fun of the situation for the future. I don't want to make light of the $250, but you will get more aggravation trying to recover this amount than it is probably worth.<br />You will have much more fun, and get some really memorable results having a real pro take a "trash the dress" type of shoot as an after effect.<br> <br />We (Justin Bass Photography) just did this (as a goodwill freebee) for a recent bride who also was unhappy with her original photographer. We met this unhappy bride while she was a guest at another wedding we were shooting. The "trash the dress" shoot was so much fun for all, and now they have terriffic memories!<br> <br />Here is a link to the blog showing some of the images, and then the full slideshow link is at the bottom of the post:<br /><a href="http://justinbassphotography.blogspot.com/search/label/Trash%20Your%20Dress">http://justinbassphotography.blogspot.com/search/label/Trash%20Your%20Dress</a><br> Good Luck, and let us know what happens!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley_gunn Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 <p>Wow ... again, I just have to say that I'm overwhelmed by the responses here and truly appreciate everyone taking the time to give their opinions. We have a lot to think about for sure and there are a lot of options out there that I hadn't thought of. :)<br> To the posters who wanted to see some of the pics, here are some:<br> This is one that I actually do like and more along the lines of what I expected - us looking natural and (gasp) like we just got married!<br> <a href="http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/ShelleyandMartin-31.jpg">http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/ShelleyandMartin-31.jpg</a><br> This is one that he took of all the guests cheering while we were told to just stand and smile.<br> <a href="http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/Other/ShelleyandMartin-21.jpg">http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/Other/ShelleyandMartin-21.jpg</a><br> Looking awkward in a pose.<br> <a href="http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/The%20Day/ShelleyandMartin-6.jpg">http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/The%20Day/ShelleyandMartin-6.jpg</a><br> And this is apparently the best pic of our first kiss ... note that I'm squishing my hubby's nose sideways ...<br> <a href="http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/Other/ShelleyandMartin-17.jpg">http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv119/shelley_1974/Other/ShelleyandMartin-17.jpg</a><br> Thanks again to everyone - comments and suggestions are certainly welcome and I can post more of the 37 pics if anyone asks. As to the "other side of the story", I would like to hear it as well ... I don't know what their issues were, truly, I'd only be speculating if I said anything at all other than what the planner told my husband what she thought of us.<br> Keep the comments coming - I'm reading each and every one and taking everything you're all saying into careful consideration. In short, I am so glad that I posted here if only because I'm feeling closer to have closure on this whole thing - and giving me inspiration for ways to have a 2nd session to get some real pics (and to have an excuse to wear my dress again!!). :D</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 <p>Shelly,</p> <p>Please do not post directly (or hotlink to) images on photo.net that you did not take yourself. This community has a lot of respect for copyright law. Not to mention the fact that it can create a legal issue for the site itself.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsay_dobson Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 <p>Shelley, in summary, your photographer cost about $250 and was contracted to give you 30 images (you got 37), for a very limited amount of coverage. Having now seen some of the shots, I must ask what your expectations were, because I was expecting much worse than this. I can appreciate your dislike of a plastic album (you should have asked to see an example when you made your booking) but the photographs themselves seem decent. I'm pleased you at least like the first one of you and your new husband, it's a lovely shot of you both, and I think the group photograph reflects a happy moment. Asking guests to cheer is common practice amongst wedding photographers.</p> <p>I think when we're planning something uniquely personal, like a wedding, we are bound to admire all the beautiful boutique-style photographs we see in wedding magazines, and set an expectation based on work produced by some of the finest photographers on the globe. The reality is that most wedding photography is quite 'standardized' and is more a record of your event, and unless you employ a reportage expert, will include a number of posed and staged shots. It may be time to take a deep breath and re-evaluate your complaint, at least in terms of further publicising it on other sites.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_myers Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 <blockquote> <p>Please do not post directly (or hotlink to) images on photo.net that you did not take yourself.</p> </blockquote> <p>Josh - OT, but, in another thread you (I think) advised another poster not to post an image that he hadn't taken, but that he <strong>should </strong>hotlink to somewhere it could be seen. Why is your advice to Shelley <strong>not </strong>to hotlink, now?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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