Refund for Photography?

[shelley_gunn]

<p>Wow - I'm completely overwhelmed with the responses to my post. Thank you to each and every one of you who have offered your opinions. They are exactly what I was looking for - both sides of the coin! :)<br>

<br />A special thank you to the people who have offered to do re-shoots for us ... I did not post here to try to get "sympathy wedding pics" ... (smile)!! :) :)<br>

<br />I can accept the "you get what you pay for" stance. I was willing to go above and beyond for the wedding photography. I knew before my wedding that the photography was one of the most important aspects of the day and I had emailed the wedding planner to tell her that I was going to find my own photographer. At many points along the planning (including the photography), she convinced me (or tried to convince me) to go with a less expensive option. A couple of things she did not succeed but the photography, she unfortunately did. I knew going into it that I was only going to get 30 pictures - I was just hoping that I would either get to pick which 30 I would get or that he would primarily give us the ones that only he was there to take.<br>

<br />Anyway, I'm reading each of these posts thoroughly and reading them to my hubby as well so that we can decide together what we'd like to do. Again, thank you so much to everyone - you are all so wonderful, helpful and knowledgeable! :D</p>

[BrianS1664879711]

<p>I'm with <a href="../photodb/user?user_id=399323">Eric Merrill</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Frequent poster" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Sep 15, 2009; 06:29 p.m. and <a href="../photodb/user?user_id=215867">Thomas Sullivan</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Frequent poster" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/3rolls.gif" alt="" /></a>, Sep 15, 2009; 10:05 p.m. on this one. Sorry for your troubles but it sounds like the photographer delivered what you agreed to buy. Too bad the coordination was so bad and your expectations weren't understood, but maybe it would be best to just move on. If you want photos you might want to pay someone to re-enact, but getting your money back seems like a real long shot. Have a happy life!</p>

[francie_baltazar]

<p>Shelly - Congratulations on you wedding - I am so sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with a planner and photographer. I think that you should seek a lawyer because there is an ethical issue here IMHO - and that is - as a "professional" he should deliever professional quality photos to you in a professional manner. The challenging thing is that in the day of digital photography anyone can be a photographer with no training and get paid to do it. We have seen brides on this forum before disappointed in their photograhs because of her lack of knowledge in how to hire a professional. I would highly recommend that when you take your first vacation together - have a pro, that you hire, take your photos - or you could get someone to do that for you now. </p>

[savagesax]

I never have had luck with wedding planners. Most of them don't have a clue to whats going on. Their experience is often based on there own wedding; so after one wedding they are now pro's.

 

There are good planners out there that do amazing jobs. One lady at the Beverly Hills Hotel has been there for years and is the best I've ever worked with. Also, because of Vegas having so many weddings,

are worth their weight in coordinators in gold.

 

Photographers with experience should also advertise themselves as planners, because we always know the best DJ's, video people, florists, cake people, the works.

 

How to solve this? If it were me I'd file with the BBB, file a lawsuit against the plannermand the photographer, settle for a lump sum consisting of having your photos retaken by a photographer of your choice. The planner and the photographer will have to argue their case with the courts or the BBB and solve your dilemma. The results won't bring back lost images, but you will get quality treasured photo's from cring professional photographer.

[walter_strong5]

<p>The appropriate phrase is ALWAYS "buyer beware".</p>

[bjcarlton]

<p>Here's a thought: you paid for a package, and your contract was with the planner, not the photographer. You've estimated that the photography portion was $250, but I think you might have an argument that the abysmal (and underhanded) performance of the planner on the photography portion substantially eliminated the value of <em>all</em> the services she performed, entitling you to a full, or substantially full refund. Alternatively, you could argue that the photography was certainly worth more to <em>you</em> than $250, and that's why you were willing to pay whatever the whole package cost (there's no reason you should be bound by the arbitrary value <em>she</em> put on the photography in arriving at her package rate). You made plain to her that photography was an important part of the deal, and went so far as to try to hire your own photographer, only to have her talk you out of it. Consider as an analogy if she had failed to provide an officiant, or if she had provided one who could not legally perform the marriage. Then it wouldn't matter how good the flowers, cake, photos, and so forth were; her services were worse than worthless. You probably couldn't push the bad-photographer argument that far, but I see no reason why the lousy photographic services (by her alter-ego <em>husband</em>) shouldn't be considered as having an impact well in excess of their nominal cost -- and thus give you a bit of leverage in extracting a settlement. (Of course, you still have a bit of weakness in your position: her counter argument would be that the photography could not have really been all that important to you if you agreed to a 30-picture arrangement. (Your counter to <em>that, </em>though would be that you thought you were going to get 30 <em>good</em> pictures; the best of the best, rather than a few hundred mostly so-so ones.) <br>

Good luck.</p>

[stephen_asprey2]

<p>37 is a fine number. I used to give 20.</p>

<p>But I am now reminded why I got out of doing weddings. Not because of clients, but because of unprofessional photographers giving us all a bad name.</p>

[bjscharp]

<p>I'm not a lawyer, but the parts were she actively dissuaded you from getting another photographer, and the part where she failed to mention her photographer <i>was her own husband</i> sounds like a serious conflict of interests. I have no doubt any jury will see this as well.</p>

 

<p>As said before: make sure you know what your ultimate goal is: Do you want better pictures, and leave this all behind you, or do you want your money back and the guilty parties crucified? In the first case, go with any of the offers from real photographers here, in the second case, contact a lawyer and investigate your options.</p>

 

<p>And always remember: The marriage is more important than the wedding. You still have each other.</p>

[don_harper_the_edge]

<p>I think you will find that going to small claims court isn't worth the time and trouble since they are not local to you.<br>

You can post a review of the planner and photographer on The Knot and Wedding Wire. I would encourage you to do the reviews to help save other brides the grief you've experienced.<br>

Also there is a professional association for wedding planners, but I suspect she isn't a member based on her performance.<br>

At best this is a cautionary tale for brides that you should be provided a contract that spells out in detail the services and products being delivered by the planner and vendors.<br>

Regarding the style of photographs (others may disagree) but with only 30 photos in the package it's going to be traditional (not necessarily cheesy) posed pictures as even a PJ photographer needs a base to work from as many people will insist they want PJ and come back and ask where "so and so image is". It's insurance for a photographer to keep family members happy. PJ style and a small fixed number of photos are sort of mutually exclusive.<br>

Regarding the album, with the allocation of a budget of $250.00 that doesn't even cover the cost of a professional album let alone photography. I would suggest scanning your photos and perhaps creating your own album from someone like "My Book" etc.<br>

I would also not store the pictures in the "Walmart" style album as I'm sure it's not archival quality and will damage your pictures over time.<br>

Just treasure the neurochromes that you have, maybe the two of you can write a story about your wedding day to help you remember what's important to the two of you.</p>

[dawn_kelly]

<p>Shelley,<br>

I'm very sorry to hear this. What you really should of done was find a different wedding planner when it became apparent that you two had different opinions. But that was then and this is now. I hate to say it, but I think that your natural desire to get justice for the wrong done to you may be getting the best of you. I would feel the same way.<br>

You need to start weighing your options. Do you pursue this matter in small claims court and spend the money and time to possibly get only $250 back? You could end up spending close $250 to do that between the associated fees and time required. You also risk the possibility of not succeeding; the judge saying that though you don't like the photos, they fullfill the contract and that it could be consider partially your fault for not insisting on seeing sample photos from the photographer before and being able to claim that your delivered items are not representative of the level of work advertised.<br>

Yes, your wedding day has passed and can not be directly recaptured. Instead, do you spend the money you would of spent on court and spend it on getting some pictures that you like?<br>

You have to weigh the options and decide. </p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>could you post some of the images that are available to you? One thing I have learned in life, there are always two sides to every story</p>

[marilynb]

Shelley,

 

So sorry to hear about your situation. I'm a wedding photographer located north of Toronto. If you're interested in somewhat recreating your day with some quality photography, I'd be happy to help.

 

Marilyn Berrys

[gregory_c]

<p>Wow, sorry to hear this, the wedding planner was scalping off everything, including the photographer. So it was her husband, probably not even a experienced photographer, 37 photos ? My understanding is the contract was for 30 photos ? Unfortunately he fufilled his part of the contract. Sadly, you got took by someone who makes the rest of us look bad,,,</p>

[surfidaho]

<p>Howdy!</p>

<p>What do you mean by "non-traditional"?</p>

<p>Everybody knows what "traditional" means. But it's hard to define the negative of that. Unless you presented the photographer with images that show what your preferences were, then he had to read your mind, and it must have been really difficult for him.</p>

<p>Another big problem here is that you paid for a traditional portrait session, so you got a traditional portrait photographer. What you probably really wanted was a photojournalist, who could capture spontaneous moments throughout the wedding. But that service does not come cheap.</p>

<p>Now I have worked with couples who had ZERO chemistry during the posed portraits and formals, but who SHINED during the rest of the reception. Even though the formals were a bust, the couple walked away happy because of all the pictures caught in the moment.</p>

<p>If you ever decide to renew your vows (I have, and I think everyone should) then I would advise you to do your own shopping for a photographer, and get one that will cover the whole event in a photojournalism style.</p>

<p>Later,</p>

<p>Paulsky</p>

[weddingbelles]

<blockquote>

<p>the part where she failed to mention her photographer <em>was her own husband</em> sounds like a serious conflict of interests<br>

Unfortunately, nepotism occurs in most businesses around the world, and even though it stinks, she was under no legal obligation to tell you he was her husband. I don't in any way think what she did was right, and it sounds like they were really unprofessional, but on the flip side, when you were paying $250 for photography, when even amateurs are charging $500 - $1000, I'm not surprised that all they delivered was 30 images (well 37 actually). <br>

Again, I'm not saying what they did, or how they did it was right, but it's pretty much you get what you pay for, and the consumer needs to be prudent and ask the right questions.</p>

<p>Shelley, I'm sorry that you didn't get what you wanted, but you do have something, and it sounds like you have video, so that should help at least a little :) I would take Marilyn up on her offer, or find someone local who can do some nice bridal and couple pictures for you guys.<br>

Good luck in your marriage, but I wouldn't pursue this, the most you will get back is $250 and it's unlikely you would even get that, sorry :(</p>

 

</blockquote>

[mgk1966]

<p>Sure, there's things you could have done as a consumer to make a better selection, but as all professionals, they have a professional responsibility, and no contract can get them out of that. Don't think that since you signed something absolving them of responsibility that they don't have any. </p>

<p>Part of my day job is to write contracts for engineering work. I could put in a contract something that says "if I screw up and this bridge falls down, you can't sue me, because you signed this form". It could be witnessed and notorized, but if that bridge falls down, guess who's responsible. The same theory applies to wedding photography.</p>

<p>At a minimum, even if you don't expect to recoup much from them, going after them legally may at least prevent them from preying on some other unsuspecting couple.</p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>This distressing situation very much underlines the fact that we can't always take what we're told at face value. It's vital that anybody hiring a vendor, any vendor, has access to examples of their work and their products upon which to make an informed decision. For example, I would not hire caterers if I had not seen their food, no matter how small my party. A stranger's recommendation is not good enough, especially when they are selling something.</p>

<p>It would be helpful if the OP could post some examples of the pictures.</p>

[jackaldridge]

<p>Shelley,<br />A few thoughts come to mind...<br />One is that every time you look at these photos you're going to be reminded of what happened on what should have been one of your happiest days. With that in mind I would make the following humble suggestions:<br />1- Trash the photos...don't give the creep the chance to hurt you any more by looking at his cheesy work.<br />2- Forget the scummers...the world will always have folks like these...but I believe people do eventually get what they deserve. Making retribution your goal will just prolong the memories and agony.<br />3- You have had at least one offer to take new photos...restage or even replan your photo scenario and make memories you want to keep.<br />4- Have a mojito or two... (that always works for my wife and I whenever there is a dispute that needs settling!) :-)<br />Good luck...</p>

[eco_foto]

<p>I had the pleasure of photographing my daughters wedding & rehersal last spring & in total shot close to 700 photos,you clearly got totally ripped off!</p>

[johnmottershaw]

<p>Really sorry you've been through this Shelley.</p>

<p>To me the planner has failed in her performance of her contract with the following clause that you quoted:<br>

"The consultant will do everything reasonable to assure that any vendor referred and accepted by the client is reputable and reliable."<br>

I can only comment on English law, but it seems clear that, whilst the other areas are very subjective and difficult to quantfy, this is one area where she has legally failed.</p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>I keep hearing hundreds of photographs, we can all do that but do we really want to take the time to prepare those photographs properly for $250? I shoot in raw that means every single photograph would require some attention from me, I want to give every one my attention, many would be similiar images. I like to give people 8x12 at 300 dpi, depending on the camera it may require some additional work. Not every one of those hundreds of photos are ones that we would want to present, our fault, their fault, any ones fault, eyes closed, funny face, etc. </p>

[sd_woods]

<p>If you don't win in court, you can always tell the whole world about your experiences with this wedding planner. The planner may be willing to pay a little back then...</p>

[joseph_wisniewski]

<p>Shelly, I have two apologies for you.</p>

<p>But first, congratulations on your wedding. Hopefully, it will bring you as much happiness as it did me (Chris and I are celebrating our 20th anniversary in November).</p>

<p>Now, my apologies as a member of the photographic community for the actions of one of us (although I don't really want to claim your photographer as a member of my community, he unfortunately is one).</p>

<p>And my apologies, in advance, for diverting your thread with my next post...</p>

 

[tdigi]

<p>I would then see if you have any photos that a guest took that day. A lot can be done with post processing to make some of the shots look good assuming they have a decent file to start with and at the very least give you some good memories. </p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>A few thoughts. First, if your contract was with the planner, then your fight if any is with her since the photographer was only a subcontractor. But since she and he are married that may be a moot point. Secondly, both the contract and the price should have told you something. "30 - digital photos, all 4 x 6 photos in a presentation album, unmarked CD with images (ceremony and formal photos)" doesn't begin to approach what any competent wedding photographer would consider the deliverables from a wedding. Wedding photographers typically deliver a few hundred to several hundred proofs (as prints or electronically) to choose from, and an album is at mininum a couple of dozen 8x10s in the hold days and often scores of images today. And no competent self-respecting wedding photographer would get out of bed for $250. you certainly did not get competent photography but it sounds like you got what you paid for. Your best bet at this point is to find a photographer you like -- deal with him/her yourself, not through a third party -- and restage photos in your gown and tux. By nature they will be posed and formal, but that doesn't mean they have to look stiff and fake. I know you're "non traditoinal" but tradition is what weddings are all about. Good luck.</p>