How do you get a good print ?

[lxtwin]

<p>I have been trying to print an image of a bee that I have recently taken and noticed that the prints are vastly different to the screen. I understand that the basics that the contrast ratio of a LCD screen and paper are different and that a screen is laminated where as paper has light reflected onto it and that you are trying to match them the best you can.<br>

<br /> Firstly I have calibrated my monitor and I have taken the image and added one layer with +29 Red, +20 Green and +32 Blue, and another I also increased the saturation. This gets it closer when it prints but is not something that I want to do often.</p>

<p >So far I can see 3 different ways to do things:</p>

<ul>

<li>1) Put the image on a CF and print directly from it</li>

</ul>

<ul>

</ul>

<p >This is the simplest, it is not bad; but I have to keep changing the printer settings to get it closer.</p>

<ul>

<li>2) Print in Photoshop and use the Photoshop to control it.</li>

</ul>

<p >For this in CS3 under Edit -> Colour Settings I have set this:<br /> Working Spaces<br /> RGB = Adobe RGB (1998)<br /> CMYK = U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2<br /> Gray = Dot Gain 20%<br /> Spot = Dot Gain 20%</p>

<p >Then under the CS3 Print option I set:<br /> Colour Handling = Photoshop Manages Colours<br /> Printer Profile = Canon MP600 PR1 (this came with it)<br /> Rendering Intent = Perceptual<br /> Black Point Compensation enabled</p>

<p >And on the Page setup Option I have 3 options, Driver matching, ICM and None.<br /> Here I select "None".<br /> This is what I am using but the prints look washed out and I have to create a "print version"</p>

<ul>

<li>3) Print in Photoshop and use the driver in vista.</li>

</ul>

<p >Here I select this under the CS3 Print option I set:<br /> Colour Handling = Printer Manages Colours.<br /> Rendering Intent = Perceptual</p>

<p >And on the Page setup Option I have 3 options, Driver matching, ICM and None.<br /> Here I select "Driver Matching" (which says in the manual - Adjusts the colours with the printer driver during printing.)<br /> The prints look oversaturated when I use this.<br>

<br /> I wonder if anyone has any suggestions and wonder how they print.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[aqualarue]

<p>Hi Paul I take it that the canon pr1 on the printer profile refers to canon's gloss pro paper you are using and level one on the slider in the print options dialogue box?</p>

<p>regards</p>

<p>Chris.</p>

[alvinyap]

<p>Can't offer you help on photoshop - I run linux - but when I print I boot to vista to use Qimage. There is a trial version available. http://www.ddisoftware.com/qimage/</p>

<p>I think it is a very good quick piece of software for printing. I just had to disable the color management in the printer driver, and choose the correct paper profile. My home prints now are almost the same output as the labs I use. I do not add saturation or stuff like that - direct export from bibble pro to qimage. Qimage has it's own built in sharpening algorithms, no need to mess in gimp for me.</p>

<p>You might want do the same - allow photoshop to manage colors, and disable printer color management - you seem to have them set around. May help.</p>

<p>Alvin</p>

[garydem]

<p>my prints match what i see on my calibrated monitor screen exactly. i print my own up to 8x10inches. for all larger prints i send them to jumbegiant.com. they also match my monitor screen.<br />quesation-when you did you monitor calibration did you do the setting of the RGB values before the setting of the brightness and the rest of the calibration? one problem that spyder software has is that it cannot set the RGB values easily or at all. this is the reason that i, after i got a new pc and lcd monitor, went with eyeone display 2. after that program was used, no problem. i did not have this problem with spyder with the old crt monitor, only with the new lcd monitor. the problem is that the lcds are sent to the users with the brightness turned way up, far beyond what is needed. and the brightness(using setting the RGB values first then the brightness itself) must be reduced to set the colors accurately. use a brightness of 120 for lcd. or 100 for crt. my lcd monitor as received was set at a brightness of 180.</p>

[lxtwin]

<p>Thanks so far;<br>

Hello Chris, I think that you are right, it comes with a few profiles:<br>

PR1, PR2 and PR3. PR= Pro Paper.<br>

SP2 and SP4. SP = Plus Gloss.<br>

MP2 = MP = Matt Paper.<br>

Canon IJ Colour Printer Profiler 2005<br>

I assume the number is the quality.</p>

<p>Hello Alvin, Thanks for that, I used to mainly use Gimp on Mandriva, but wanted to use adjustment layers so for most of the time I use CS2 under wine. My printer was not especially well supported so I tried a demo of turbolinux, this was not bad but still out a bit.<br>

I then installed windows to try to get the monitor calibrated and printing better, there are more options but it is not really better.<br>

I was even considering getting the spider print for creating profiles, but I need to look into that some more.</p>

 

[lxtwin]

<p>Hi Gary,<br>

I reset the monitor to defaults, it is a Dell 2707WFP and has contrast and brightness set to 50% and the colours (R, G, B) to 100%.<br>

I will recalibrate it and see what it says. Sorry but I am not sure what you mean about a brightness of 120 or 180.<br>

Thanks</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>do your monitor is hardware calibrated?...because for me the image you post have a major red cast all over..so if you see it correctly on your screen or think you see it correctly (witch it doestn seem to) that could be why when you got your print that show you the real image you think that its the printer problem...</p>

<p>heres just a quick color correction of your bee</p><div></div>

[lxtwin]

<p>Hi Patrick, I see what you mean; I used the Spider 3 Pro. I will look at the raw image and follow it through to see if the colour changes.<br>

I like the corrected one.</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>How to get a good print?</p>

<p>(1) Set the white balance carefully when shooting. Use a grey card, or a Color Checker chart for ultimate accuracy.</p>

<p>(2) Calibrate your monitor, using a colorimeter or spectrophotometer (e.g., X-Rite Eye-One Pro).</p>

<p>(3) Make all corrections in a color-managed environment (e.g., Lightroom and Photoshop).</p>

<p>(4) Use the manufacturer's inks and recommended paper. Use published print profiles or make your own (purchased or with a reflectance spectrophotometer like Eye-One Photo). Test and adjust the effect of the profile with soft-proofing (Photoshop).</p>

<p>(5) Strive for consistency, then fine-tune the printing process as needed.</p>

[charlesheckel]

<p>Edward's idea of using an 18% reflectance neutral gray card or a color test chart when shooting the original scene is a good one. You want to include it in one exposure in a given scene, placing it so it faces the camera and reflects the light falling on your subject. That will give you a reference point for things like the red cast you couldn't see that Patrick's expert eyes spotted immediately. <br>

It helps to shoot RAW and fine-tune with the HSL/Grayscale panel in Adobe Camera Raw. Initially you'll probably find yourself going crazy. Be patient--it's part of the learning curve. I'd suggest you start by selecting the Tone Curve panel and making sure you have good blacks and whites with well-separated tones. Then select HSL/Grayscale, Luminance tab, and check that the colors you want to modify have good midrange values. When that's a given, kick up the Saturation for all values a bit past plausible, so that your colors are clashing a little, and then modify the Hues so they play nicely together. Then bring Saturation back down to plausible and check again. Finally, set Saturation individually for the various colors.<br>

You may mung things hopelessly and have to start over several times, and that's fine as long as you're keeping your eyes peeled and getting a good color education. After you've spent some time at this, it becomes helpful to do essentially the same thing with Curves, modifying the curve separately in RGB and each of the channels. It's harder because the interactions are more complex and there are more dependencies, but someone like Patrick can look at a dull bee picture, select one curve, place one point, hitch it up or down a trifle, and produce a wow.<br>

Edward's steps above are technically complete and accurate, but he left out step (0): train your eye. It takes time and practice to discover that it's not really fidelity to the original scene, strictly speaking, that gives an image conviction. It's the internal relationships between the various colors and values. If these don't resonate, the picture may be faithful, but it will still be blah.</p>

[garydem]

<p>"Hi Gary,<br />I reset the monitor to defaults, it is a Dell 2707WFP and has contrast and brightness set to 50% and the colours (R, G, B) to 100%.<br />I will recalibrate it and see what it says. Sorry but I am not sure what you mean about a brightness of 120 or 180.<br />Thanks"<br />the brightness of monitor are rated and set as candles per so much area. the numbers i gave refer to the brightness that the monitor is generating when you calibrate. for the calibration to work the brightness MUST be set correct first, since the colors are only calibrated right at a certain brightness. for lcd this is 120cdl/area, for crt this 100cdl/area. if you do not or cannot set the brightness correct before calibration then your calibratiojn is destined to be incorrect. one trick i trick with spyder software is to tell it you have a crt monitor, even if it is lcd. this lets you into the brightnress adjuster, when done you exit out then come backin and do the rest of the calibration for the lcd.<br />before the brightness is adjusted to the 100 or 120 figure, the rgb VALUES MUST BE SET. if no, the brightness itself will have to be adjusted abnormally low and this will messup the colors and calibration. i had spyder software, the one i had would not let set the RGB at all, and there was no way to set the brightness unless i used the trick described above. i eventually got the eyeone display 2 software and, all was smooth sailing. the eyeone can do anything to any monitor that you ask it to do, no limitations. sorry if i am the bearer of unhappy tidyings. before i used the eyeone i could not get the prints to match the monitor screen no matter what i did. right now my prints match exactly my monitor OR the ones i get printed from jumbogiant.com.<br />one way i know that your monitor is still not adjusted right is when you stated the RGB were all at 100%. on my dell lcd the values of rgb are between 76 and 81. my contrast is at 90%. once the rgb was adjusted the brightness came right to the 120 level with ease.<br />also, i do not know if this has been said. but if not be sure that all your color gamuts from camera to printer are the same way. that is adobe RGB. what you do not want is to have some part of the photoprocess chain set one way and all the rest set the other. i shoot jpeg always, and my dslrs and all else are set to adobe 1998 RGB.<br />the attached pic is of antelope canyon arizona, taken 3 weeks ago.. shot as jpeg, adobe 1998 RGB. the color appear on my monitor as you see them, and as i remember them</p><div></div>

[lxtwin]

<p>Thanks for all the advice, I have found some settings that let me adjust the RGB settings and it does look better, the only other question I have is do you calibrate it to 6500K @ 2.2 or 5000K @ 2.2 ?<br>

Thanks once again.</p>

[garydem]

<p>calibrate to 100cdls/area for lcd, 6500K,and a gamma of 2.2</p>

[lxtwin]

<p>Thanks Gary,<br>

After fiddeling it looks a lot better, there are some tricks with the spyder, there is a RGB setting in one of the menus and if you calibrate it to 5000K @ 1.8, then back to 6500K @ 2.2 it lets you adjust the RGB and then the contrast, mine is now between 75 -> 86 with a bright ness of 59% contrast 67%.<br>

With this the red cast has show and I am now adjusting the image; after that I will print it.<br>

Cheers.</p>

[garydem]

<p>you are welcome.<br>

you just ran into the reason i switched to eyeone display 2. the spyder will work, BUT you either have to play with it or trick it to get it to do so. with the eyeone display 2 you simply follow the menus and the calibtration is done in an orderly no trick manner. a no fuss no muss situation. with the spyder i found i could get a calibration after the tricks but as it turned out it still was not quite right. so i said grrr and bought the eyeone. been a lot happier ever since. the eyeone even reminds me to recalibrate once a month. what i do with the eyeone is alternate the easy mode and the advanced mode. the difference is that the advanced gives you the brightness and RGB adjustments, while the easy is the calibration only.</p>