Equipment upgrade?

[julie_g.]

<p>Hi everyone, </p>

<p>I have been shooting wedding for about a year now (8 total, 2 as a second shooter). I am thinking I can afford a small upgrade to my equipment setup. This is what I currently use:</p>

<p>Nikon D80<br>

Nikon D100</p>

<p>2X SB-800's</p>

<p>Tamron 17-50mm/f2.8<br>

Sigma 70-200mm/f2.8<br>

Nikon 50mm/f1.8<br>

- I also have a Nikkor 18-55mm and a Nikkor 55-200mm which are really just for outdoor backup.</p>

<p>Do people think a wide-angle lens would add to my system? Like a Tokina 12-24mm or a Sigma 10-20mm? I could also upgrade my D100 to a D200 or D80. I would love to upgrade to a D300, but it is not currently in my budget. Alternatively, I could hold off for now until I could afford that upgrade. Any other suggestions?</p>

<p> </p>

[wgpinc]

<p>Adding a D90 would be a big upgrade. Better IQ and much improved higher ISO. How much would you really use a super wide? </p>

[anna_bravington]

<p>I agree with Gil, the D90 performs great at higher iso, that teamed with your 2.8 lenses would allow you to shoot in darker situations. It's much cheaper than a d300. I use one a lot and love it.</p>

<p>I don't really ever use a super wide angle, personally and I've been photographing weddings a few years.</p>

<p>The other option is that you could perhaps rent a wide angle first and take it to a wedding, see if you find it useful?</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Think about investing the extra money in yourself in the form of continuing education. You could join WPPI, PPA, and/or NAPP.......attend some seminars, workshops, conferences, and tradeshows. Also consider training DVDs from NAPP and/or <a href="http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/CTGY/DVD/">http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/CTGY/DVD/</a> <br>

Perhaps a subscription to P-net as well.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>I agree with David. Especially when you consider you are shooting less than one wedding a month. However, if I were using the equipment you have listed, my upgrade path would first be a couple more flashes so I could maximize some off-camera lighting. A flash on a light stand isn't to hard to carry. And with a couple more flashes, you will get better use from your back up lenses if forced to shoot say a reception with those lenses. After that (and shooting some more) you can better decide what lens best fits you. Do you miss not having something wider than 17mm on a DX format? Do you like shooting wider than f/2.8? That can help determine your next lens purchase. Your cameras use a CCD sensor which in a nutshell means they do not do so well at higher ISOs. Newer cameras using a CMOS chip will do better at higher ISOs. However, I would upgrade just one camera, I would want to upgrade both. So in that regard I would just save my money until I could. Using some off camera lighting you could easily shoot @ ISO 400 @ a reception and come away with some great images with your current cameras.</p>

[pete_s.]

<p>From an equipment point of view I find a wide angle very useful. 17mm is not wide at all, it's like 26mm on full frame. The Tokina 11-16/2.8 is the fastest wide angle on DX and it is great when you want to take in the entire scene in one shot. The large aperture is handy when light levels are low.<br>

If you are a two camera shooter I would get a used D80 to replace the D100. Easier to shot two identical cameras IMHO. Also easier to post process.</p>

<p> </p>

[julie_g.]

<p>Thanks for everyone's input. I agree that I wouldn't use the wide-angle often- just a few shots per wedding. Probably not worth the money at this point.</p>

<p>I could afford an upgrade to the D90, especially since I can sell the D100 body for a few hundred bucks. I like that the bodies would then be very similar, but the primary camera would be much better (especially at low light). I understand that the colors are much milder on the D90, so post-editing would be different for the two cameras. I think I would prefer getting a D90 rather than a second D80 though, to get that higher ISO capability.</p>

<p>John- I would also like to look into off-camera flash options, particularly for dark receptions. My only hesitation there, is that I worry I would feel restricted with a flash on a light stand. Is it difficult to move around with one, or do you only use it for certain shots (ie bride-groom dancing etc.)?<br>

<br />Thanks!</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>I would get a pair of light stands and umbrellas and maybe a set of Pocket Wizards. That way you could put your SB-800s up on light stands with umbrellas to get better lighting when you do the formals. That would make a huge improvement in the look of your pictures if you're not doing it already.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>I will use an off camera flash whenever and wherever possible. I frequently move it around during a photo session but seldom move it around during the reception. Here is a link to some I just uploaded to Photo.net:</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?user_id=5233527</p>

<p>All of these images have a very strong direction of light component. If not for that strong direction of light, the image would be much less interesting. Imagine the B&W image with a flash being blasted right at them. Since I can only have 6-images uploaded, I will post another two right here. I post these two to show you that I am not moving my key light. In this case, my key light is actually a cheapo Vivatar 285 bounced off the wall/ceiling in the corner.</p><div></div>

[john_deerfield]

<p>And here is the 2nd shot with the same exact lighting set up, only with the bride more in the "shadow". Learning to use off camera lighting will VASTLY improve your photography. You want shadows next to highlights for depth & texture. My current wedding image of the week post shows an image where I bounced the flash into a reflector camera left (http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00UIf7). The direction of light component isn't nearly as strong as the others I have posted but pay close attention to the shadows. First, they are VERY soft. 2nd, they are NOT direct; I have soft loop lighting as defined by the "loop" shadow the nose creates. I am not blowing out any detail in the dress using harsh, on-camera flash. Quite the opposite: I enhance the details by giving my light even just that slight direction. Now in this case I was using an assistant (OK- I borrowed my wife's assistant!) to hold a reflector, but the same thing could be achieved with a flash on a stick using a bounce card or umbrella. </p>

<p>The whole point being, learning lighting will go so much further in improving one's photography than simply a new camera or lens.</p><div></div>

[john_deerfield]

<p>Uh-oh. I fibbed. The off-camera flash in the images I posted in this thread are from an SB800. Here is a shot my assistant took using the same channel and you can see me there in the left with an SB900 on camera.</p><div></div>

[john_deerfield]

<p>For reference, here is my shot from that angle. The red light IS from a Vivitar 285 that I had gelled behind the DJ.</p><div></div>

[julie_g.]

<p>Great images John, and very useful information. In addition to my 2 SB800's I also have a Nikon SB-28DX Speedlight. Would this be strong enough or should I just invest in another SB800?</p>

<p>Any recommendations for simple to use lightstands?</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>I am a relatively recent Nikon convert so I don't know much about the SB-28DX. A quick Google didn't reveal if the SB800 will actually trigger a SB-28 off camera? And even if it does, I think you can only use it in manual at that point. Drawback to the SB800 is the insane prices people are paying for used ones (of course it's the latest greatest for film cameras). I find recommending <em>A</em> particular flash hard. I love the SB900 as the commander. I can do 1/3rd stops manually with the SB900 as a commander whereas with the SB800, I can only do full stops manually. And I have been shooting a lot of flash manually here lately. The SB900 is also faster/easier to designate as remote/commander: it's a switch instead of menu driven. But if you can pick up an SB800 at a good price, you will save some money. Alternatively, you can get a Vivitar 285HV for under $100. Plenty of power, put you will need some sort of wireless trigger (Pocket Wizard, CyberSync etc). I often use a Vivitar because at under $100 I am not as concerned if strong wind blows my flash over when shooting outside. Which leads to my next <em>strong</em> recommendation: sandbags for your lightstands, even indoors! The Vivitar 285 has a PC terminal (like the SB800 & 900 but not the 600) for connecting a wired or wireless trigger. It also has an external power input (again like the 800 & 900, but not the 600). Biggest issue with the 285 (besides only shooting it manually), is that it takes forever to recycle. At full power you could be waiting 30 seconds. Using external power such as a Quantum Turbo battery brings that down to a more respectable, but still slow, 5-seconds. So in price order (new), you have:</p>

<p>Vivitar 285. Price is deceiving because you need a wireless trigger. But that's a good thing to have eventually anyway. Pros- cheap & powerful, has a PC input and an external power input. Drawback: manual only, no CLS; slow to recycle.<br>

SB600. Works as a remote in CLS. Cons - No PC terminal or external power input. For me, that is why I never use the SB600. I should sell it!<br>

SB800. Pros- works as a commander or remote. Has both PC terminal and external power input. Cons - overpriced right now in the used market (IMHO). As a commander, it only allows full f/stop increments on the remote flash. CLS won't work in a variety of situations (unlike a radio trigger which is more reliable).<br>

SB900. Pros- it has it all. And will do 1/3 stop manual increments via CLS as the commander. Cons - price.</p>

<p>As far as a lightstand goes, for me the primary consideration is how high will it go? All lightstands pretty much "function" the same way (unless you want to start using C-Stands). This is my current "wishlist" stand should I need another:</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=workaround.jsp&A=details&Q=&sku=38345&is=REG</p>

<p>And I prefer the metal umbrella adapter over the plastic versions: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/32350-REG/Lumedyne_AHUA_Umbrella_Bracket.html</p>

<p>And if using a Quantum battery (for super fast recycle times) this is a great piece: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/98305-REG/Quantum_Instruments_QBC_Pole_Mounting_Clamp.html</p>

<p>Finally, if you join NAPP you get free shipping from B&H (and sandbags can be expensive to ship!) along with all the other benefits of NAPP.</p>

[julie_g.]

<p>Thanks for the detailed answer. Very helpful! <br>

So during a reception, would you recommending setting up the Vivitar 285 (... SB800 or SB900) on a lightstand in a corner out of the way from activity, pointing to the dance floor?</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>Not pointing onto the dance floor- that would be a very direct hard light. Small light source = hard light = hard shadows and quick fall off. I want to bounce the flash into the wall, preferably a corner/ceiling. This way the reflected surface becomes my light source. The reflected surface being larger than my subjects means I have a softer light (the larger the light source in relationship to your subject, the softer the light). Softer light gives you more "wrap around" lighting. In the one image you can clearly see the flash being bounced into the corner wall area. Look at the blowout on the wall. Look how large my light source is now. Have you ever seen how small your flash light source is in a mirror maybe? I don't want that itty bitty light- I want a big light. But yes, I put it on a stand, as out of the way as I can. I usually try to set up the lights near the DJ. This way if I catch a light in the frame, it could be just part of the DJs lights. In the above example, it was a very long dance floor and they weren't dancing too close to the DJ so I set that one up near the gift table. In my 3-lights image, I have the 3rd light a good 30 feet away (the one with a blue gel) in the corner of the room. Also keep in mind that sometimes hard light will work for you. In the sunset shot I posted, with the flash camera right, that is merely a flash on a stick with the standard dome diffuser (which at that point only reduces specular highlights). You can see the dramatic light fall off from my small light source on the grooms sleeve: half the sleeve is lit, the other half isn't! But in this case it works. Most of the time though you want that larger light source.</p>

[julie_g.]

<p>Right, of course. I was picturing using an umbrella or large diffuser, but bouncing off the corner or ceiling would be simpler. </p>

<p>Thanks again!</p>

[picturesque]

<p>John has excellent suggestions. I just want to add some suggestions based on my experiences.</p>

<p>I like my Bogen Nano lightstands. They fold to 20" but don't go up beyond about 7.5 feet. I have one extenstion that I use if I want to go higher. They are not as sturdy (being compact), but a small shoemount on the stand is no problem. Otherwise, realize that you need a bag/case long enough to carry the folded stands, some of which are as long as 36". I agree, though, that you have to be careful about where you put them. I carry a sandbag in my car in case I need it, as well as clamps and bungee cords, in case I can put a light on a door edge or pole, etc.</p>

<p>I like the following stand adapter.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/MF6829/">http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/MF6829/</a></p>

<p>It is metal and sturdy, but relatively small, without a lot of handles sticking out.</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure the Sb-28 does not work in the CLS system. Up to you whether you want to go with the Nikon wireless system or not. Generally speaking, a wireless system like Pocket Wizards, or Cybersyncs (what I use), or Radiopoppers is going to be more reliable, particularly in very large reception halls where your off camera light might be a hundred feet away. Since you have 2 SB800s already, I'd start experimenting with one off camera and then figure out which way you want to go.</p>

<p>As John said, if you have light or white walls and ceilings, bouncing off the walls and ceilings is the thing to do. Umbrellas or other diffusers don't do anything better. If you don't have the white or light walls and ceilings, direct flash can work, and it can work to create a more 'nightclub' atmosphere if that is what you want. Bounced lighting tends to be well filled in and while the shadows are less dense, the overall mood is not edgy/nightclub-ish. You also need to use direct flash if you don't have any good bouncing surfaces or are outside at night. Also, you can catch a light in your frame on purpose, for special effects--just don't do it all the time.</p>

[jonj]

<p>Julie,<br>

I would not put my money into the off camera strobes/flashes as you can see in the photos the room is to bright and there is no imtimate atmosphere when the room is lit up to that degree. I use 2 D80s and both are getting close to the end of their life so I am faced with the same issue. I think a D700 or D300 and keep the D80 is what I would do when you can afford it.<br>

Buy a lightshpere as well.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

[kiva]

<p>I vote Demb Diffuser instead of a Lightsphere to soften light from on camera flash unit ... better quality light and stays on better. Just my experience and I've used both. Merely a thought.</p>

<p>I'd comment on the use of a wide angle lens is worth it's weight in gold for those receptions that are crowded and hot with dancers and celebrating guests. You can wade out into the middle of the crowd and get really fun photos by holding the camera up over your head and the families love to see those action shots. It's all about creating a rhythm in a photographic sense and a wide angle lens can add a real wow factor when used in the right situations when a not so wide angle just doesn't do the trick. This may not be a priority for you at this point.</p>

<p>With all that said: you probably would benefit more, at this early stage, from having <strong>off camera flash units and pocket wizards</strong> followed quickly by a new camera. Learn to set the lights up and use them: it adds to the photographic rhythm I mentioned above but it can also be over used like a wide angle lens so use it judiciously to create your style as a wedding photographer.</p>