Side-lit, yellow ceilings, yellow curtains

[hjd]

<p>My Disclaimer* This is my first time posting so forgive any indiscretions. I have followed many posts and threads on this site which have been a tremendous help in growing my photography but now I think it's time that I ask some questions of my own. I have mostly been a baby/family/couple photographer and have a few weddings under my belt so I do have a lack of experience but I am willing to do what I can to learn and upgrade my techniques and photography as a whole.</p>

<p>I have a wedding that is booked for tomorrow. It was originally scheduled as an outdoor event but yesterday it was switched to indoors. I prefer to use natural light as much as possible and am not 100% confident in flash photography although I have used it on the occasion. But tomorrow I don't think I have much choice.</p>

<p>The room for the ceremony is set up as follows: Approx 50x100 ft, half of that is to be used for the ceremony (50x50) where the rest of the room will begin to be transformed for the reception. There is no division between the sides of the room other than the way the chairs will be positioned. Windows surround the parameter of the room as a whole however well over half won't provide enough light for the ceremony as they are performing the ceremony width wise across one section of the room. Yellow curtains will be drawn at the head of the aisle so the B&G won't be back lit but the entire left side will remain open. This provides natural light but only half the guests will be lit, the Bride will in shadow when she is standing, and the Groom will be lit. Ceilings are approx 10 ft and painted yellow as well.</p>

<p>My gear: Nikon D300 (D200 backup), 18-105 f3.5/5.6, 28-75 f2.8, 70-300 f4-5.6 (too slow), 85 f1.8, 50 f1.8, SB800.</p>

<p>I have read several posts now on using the flash but I'm getting overwhelmed/confused/freaking out...</p>

<p>I have thought that maybe I should use the flash on one camera with the 28-75 and use my 'backup' with one of the primes so I can still get some natural light shots without switching lenses and fiddling with the flash more than I need but where the room is very cramped, about 70 guests and others (violinist, small bridal party, JP, DJ in the corner, etc) I'm afraid I won't be really movable with two camera bodies strapped to me.</p>

<p>Also, I've been reading about and now debating whether or not to put the flash in TTL-B mode vs TTL mode, whether I should just bounce off the ceiling (can't use any side walls as there are none) with or without a diffuser dome, whether I should drag the shutter or just using the flash as the main source and not worry about the window light creating ambient lighting, or whether or not I should use gels to compensate for the yellow curtains and the yellow ceiling. I'm worried about too much of a yellow cast, particularly on the brides dress but I don't know if this is going to be a main concern or not.</p>

<p>Also, another question is what is considered appropriate use of the flash during the ceremony? I don't want them to feel like they are at a disco but I don't know if I can get away without using it as I would LOVE to be able to do but I doubt that I have enough fast lenses to pull it off.</p>

<p>What's a girl to do?</p>

 

[pete_s.]

<p>Tomorrow? It's too late to work out anything now so just shoot as usual. With flash go straight-on, flash in ttl and camera in P and you'll get usable pictures.</p>

<p> </p>

[hjd]

<p>Yeah, tomorrow unfort. It was a sudden change that I did not expect but there's not much I can do about it now other than go with the flow. When I showed up at the rehearsal yesterday I had to phone the bride to find out where she was and that's when I found out they had moved locations. It wasn't even mentioned prior to that at any of my consultations with them. ~sigh~</p>

<p>I'm not totally foreign to shooting with a flash but my confidence isn't really there. I think I'd feel more unsure about a straight on flash shooting in P. I don't want to relinquish all my control. ;0) The ceremony isn't until 4 pm so I can always head in as early as I can to shoot some test images if I need. The formals will be prior to the ceremony at 2 and there won't be any reception or getting ready shots that I have to concern myself with as it's a fairly small, informal wedding. So I do have 'some' time to learn what I can. At least feel a little more confident anyway.</p>

<p> </p>

[ben_goren]

<p>Get there early and experiment. Grab a couple people to use as props if possible. While you

might not come up with the “best” solution, I’m sure you’ll figure out

something that’s plenty “good enough.”</p>

 

<p>If you have the time, don’t be afraid to experiment with stuff that’s not likely to work,

too. For example, with a higher ISO and one of your primes, the ceiling just might not be too high to

bounce off of, or maybe that wall is closer than you think, <i>etc.</i></p>

 

<p>Good luck!</p>

 

<p>b&</p>

[picturesque]

<p>The first thing to do is to find out if flash is allowed. The second thing to do is to find out if you have any restrictions in movement. If you are not restricted, you can probably use no flash because you can use your 50 and 85 and walk to accomplish framing. Remember that with the wider focal lengths, you can use slower shutter speeds and still hand hold. Plus, there is always the old tripod.</p>

<p>Not knowing either of the above, and based on what you've told us, I would suggest one of two other possibilities. First is that you use flash (if allowed) as fill and try to use the window light as main. This assumes we aren't talking about an ultra dim situation. Sounds like the ceremony is in the daytime and there is a moderate amount of light coming through the windows. This also assumes we aren't talking about the processional and recessional, where one has to freeze motion.</p>

<p>In this scenario, don't gel, or gel slightly (1/8th CTO?). The light will be a mix of daylight and tungsten (if the room is tungsten lit). You will have to use your judgement as to whether daylight is primary or tungsten is primary. No way of knowing without seeing the place. If you bounce the flash, the yellow color cast is going to be 'icky', especially if you are using daylight as primary. This is the least intrusive way, since the flash will not be going off full blast.</p>

<p>The other alternative is to go flash heavy, and basically use flash as primary, suppressing the ambient enough to not have problems with the color cast. If you do this, don't gel. In this scenario, I'd be more comfortable with off camera flashes. I often do this kind of thing at receptions and combined with a white card bounce on the on camera flash, white balance is kept fairly clean daylight. You will be much more intrusive here. But sometimes, it doesn't matter. There are some ceremonies where the officiant have told me, the more bright lights, noise and joy, the better. You should find out.</p>

<p>In any case, I would use two cameras--one for no flash, one set up for flash. I don't have too much trouble walking around with two cameras. You can park your bag or other accessories somewhere to be as slim as possible (keep an eye on them, though).</p>

<p>I use Canon but I understand TTL-BL is for fill flash situations, and TTL is for flash primary situations. I also heard that many people don't find too much of a difference, but I'd stick to the intended purposes anyway.</p>

<p>Dragging the shutter would be useful during the processional and recessional, with flash, and when using flash as primary. I would avoid bouncing the flash unless against a white card (straight up) because the yellow cast is not lovely. If the bride's dress is too yellowish, that can be corrected in post processing, but that shouldn't be too much of a problem unless tungsten pervades and you aren't filling with flash enough, or you bounce off the yellow walls. If you go with no flash, you realize you are still going to get a bit of yellow cast on the dress just by reflected light off the walls, and/or tungsten contribution.</p>

[hjd]

<p>Thanks Nadine. Yes, flash is allowed. There are no restrictions other than movement because of a lack of space. It will be a very cramped location once all the chairs and people get in there. I'll basically be stuck to the outside of one set of chairs with the odd occasion of being able to sneak into the very short aisle way when the ceremony is in progress.<br>

Ben, I really don't have a wall to bounce off of as one side of the location is completely open to the other side of the room and the other side is floor to ceiling windows. Not bad, execpt the processional & recessional are running parallel to the windows therefore everything will be side-lit by that natural light. There won't be any tungsten lighting as I actually requested that they be off (there's enough light for the guests to see) as they are more spot-lights than anything. Sun sets here around 9pm, but there are several trees and they are expecting cloud cover so I really don't know what to expect when it comes to the amount of light coming in.<br>

I am worried that half of the ceremony will be lit with the window light and the other half all in shadow so that's why I was thinking about using the flash as my primary source and just adjusting the dlash compensation as needed.<br>

The Groom said he wouldn't mind in the least if the flash was going off (make him feel famous for his 15 mins or so, lol) but I've heard a few horror stories of photog's lighting up the room; flash happy.<br>

If I use a diffuser and bounce the flash, seems the ceilings are fairly low, would that help at all? Or would it just cut down too much on the flash output leaving a straight bounce as sufficient enough? And if I'm understanding right, you mentioned that if I use the flash as primary, to hold off on the gel and use off-camera flashes? Is that correct? I only have the one flash but even if I rented others I don't think I'd feel expereinced enough to set up addional lighting. I have only ever done that once before and it took me <em>forever</em> to get the look I wanted. Lots of trial and error. That's why I was was wondering if I keep the flash mounted on one camera, if I should add a gel (I unfort don't own a bracket either). I <em>really</em> don't want to PP a gazillion images because of a horrible yellow color and believe me when I say that the painted yellow is horrible! Not to mention to the ghastly curtains!<br>

I could soften the flash with a diffuser I suppose and shoot straight on or angled to try and avoid the colored ceilings all together but I don't know (lack of experience here) if I'd get ugly flash shadows or not. When you mention bouncing with a white card, straight up, can you explain that just a tad farther? How large of a white card do you use?</p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Hmmmm.....a wedding is an important event. I don't see that it's feasible to have new gear and/or techniques developed in time for tomorrow. It does seem that you have some room to move though, and so I'd suggest using your fast 80 and 50 in the natural light you have available....<br>

Yours is also one of the very few cases where I think RAW should be the format to shoot in, since the WB is likely going to be quite a MishMash.<br>

Your gear is adequate to this approach......but I think you need to stay in your comfort zone.......if you don't know about a particular technique, then stay away from it for this job.......Weddings....you can't redo them....Best wishes...Bob</p>

[picturesque]

<p>I'd say pure bouncing is out, since that will definitely give you the yellow color cast, and since you don't have tungsten to deal with, I would go flash as fill only, no gel, ambient as primary, or flash primary where your ambient is too low, such as for processional and recessional, to stop motion. You understand that with daylight coming through the windows, added to bounced light from the flash, which turns yellowish, you will have the awful mixture you dislike. If you gel the flash, it will be worse, because you neutralize the yellow, but daylight will give you a blue color cast.</p>

<p>For simplicity, since you don't own a bracket, if I were to use one on camera flash, I would use my Demb Diffuser with the card straight up or slightly forward, and keep it there throughout. You can look up A Better Bounce Card as well, or use a piece of white cardboard rubber banded to the flash. The Demb Diffuser (actually the Flip It part) gives you fine control on card position, but you can kind of do that with the card and rubber band (the Demb Diffuser card is about 4"x4"). You will get a small amount of color cast, from the light that is going upward to the yellow ceiling, but since you don't have a bracket, that is the lesser of two evils, since you will get side shadows for verticals otherwise. Look at the Demb Diffuser website to see how to position your flash to cover horizontals and verticals. The small amount of color cast will be easy to correct in post.</p>

<p>With the card straight up or slightly forward, you will not have soft, shadowless lighting, but it won't be as bad as with the flash direct. The card, being white, helps keep the color temperature of the flash from getting that yellow cast from bouncing.</p>

<p>If you plan to try this, I'd cut a piece of white card and get some rubber bands and start practicing now, although you won't know how much yellow the card position can kill without trying it out in a yellow room.</p>

<p>I would not run out and get multiple lighting set ups if you are not used to using them.</p>

<p>And I would agree with Bob that you should also use your 50 and 80 and shoot natural light--even your other zooms for the wider angles. Again--there is such a thing as successful tripod use during the ceremony. It's only the wide shots that go from shadow side of the room to lighted side of the room (next to the windows) that are going to be a problem for natural light. Whenever that isn't a problem, I'd turn the flash off and shoot natural light.</p>

[hjd]

<p>Thanks so much. I think in the future a bracket will be on my list of supplies but for now, no, I don't think I'll be trying too much in the way of new equipment especially for tomorrow. As Bob stated, it's an important event, and I don't want a sudden paniac attack either from me or the Bride, lol! I'm thinking that I may use one camera for my primes and use it for natural light and the other camera to sit with a zoom/slower lens, and the flash. That way I can easily switch from one to the other as the conditions call for it.</p>

<p>I do have this: http://www.honlphoto.com/servlet/the-10/strobist-speedlight-strobe-flash/Detail that may help me achieve the bounce you suggested but I think I'll give that Demb Diffuser a closer look. Also I'll be sure to check out their site more too. I also possess the Gary Fong Whaletail but I don't know if it'll give me what I need in this situation plus I find it a bit cumbersome to use and as such would rather not be fumbling with my equipment. I also may be taking my monopod with me as I really don't know if I'd have to room to comfortably manuver the tripod (it really is that cramped!) and it's a little quicker too.</p>

<p>Thank you so much for all your help. I think I really needed a boost of confidence and a few good stepping stones to jump on and you really helped me. I think I was in a bit of shock when they mentioned the changes to me and slight panic settled in. I will have about 4-5 hours prior to my contracted time to fiddle around with some test shots and the rest of tonight to refresh my memory of the functions of my flash so that should give me plenty of time to do some good trial and error. If all else fails, I'll be doing what I know best and turning that flash off, lol, after all, I do know where the 'off' button is! Role with the punches, that's all I can do and of course try to learn what I can along the way. Thanks again!</p>

<p> </p>

[picturesque]

<p>The Honl gizmo will work, but isn't as fine-tuneable as a Demb Diffuser/Flip It. I would not use the Whaletail. That and the Lightsphere depend too much on bounce, and as I said, pure bounce will transfer the yellow color cast.</p>

[hjd]

<p>Yes. I'm leaving the whaletail behind. ;0) It has its uses but I agree that tomorrow it won't do me any favors. Thanks again! I'll let you know how it all turns out!</p>

[ianivey]

<p>Well, Heather? How <em>did </em>it turn out?</p>