natalie_l Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Hi everyone,<br> Thanks to everyone who provided feedback on my 2nd wedding this week. I'm shooting my 3rd wedding (for free) on Friday at a church in NYC which does not allow flash. I would greatly appreciate everyone's suggestions on my approach Friday. I'm going to take into great consideration all the feedback you provided on composition, framing, WB, OOF shots, exposure, et al.<br> I have not really tweaked my camera settings and was wondering what you recommend. I know I can /should consider altering picture settings, contrast, sharpess, etc. I always shoot in M, but do crank my iso up a bit too much. I need to learn or try not to so often. I'll keep an eye on my histogram to watch out for blinkies.<br> I realize this response may vary photog to photog, but I just wanted to ask the question.<br> What settings would you recommend I consider for my low/moderate lit church Friday, which doesnt allow flash. The reception is outdoors in a courtyard, with some shade and tents. I dont want to produce flat/dull images. Any thoughts and tips would be greatly appreciated.<br> Thanks in advance,<br />Natalie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>CHURCH > tripod ... iso 500 ... probably under a 1/15th & <em>manual</em> will get you the best results....:- ) TENT/SHADE --- use your hand meter = set what ever you are comfortable with for your shutter speed for the available light ( underexposures will produce flat/dull images ) Do you have a flash ??</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natalie_l Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>THANKS! I always use manual and will bring my tripod. I have a hand meter. I dont want flat/dull images, but i'm nervous to blow out hte dress. Hmmm...<br> I have two 580 exII.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>NATALIE :: A single 580 ~ bounced up into a white tent will be the exquisite ( do you have a Stofen or flap to add a little catch light ) ...most likely 1/8 or 1/4 power --just make sure the flash is well below the ambient exposure from the meter. The light from the flash :: will place a edge light to all your subjects eliminating all flat/dull perceptions. At all cost avoid splotchy light --move your subjects or wait until the even light falls on them..... good luck. Ideally the white dress should not go above 2/3rds from middle point on your dial.. And Good Luck~!</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natalie_l Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>I do have one and a also have a gary fong lightsphere as well. I'm not great with my meter, could you elaborate on making the flash well below the ambient exposure from the meter?</p> <p>Thanks for your help!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Do a search in the forum for no flash ceremonies. The question gets asked a lot. The general answer is to up the ISO enough to accomplish shooting with a high enough shutter speed to both freeze subject motion and possibly hand hold the lens. You should be aware of the guideline re shutter speed/focal length relationship and that below about 1/60th of a second you open yourself up to subject motion--even subjects just standing at the altar. You CAN use a tripod, if necessary. Since I think you have a 5DII, I wouldn't think upping the ISO would be a problem, although you will still get noise if you underexpose.</p> <p>So settings--whatever settings will expose your scene correctly without flash. How do you meter?</p> <p>As for the reception--shade is lovely--you don't usually need flash, although some flash fill can be necessary at times, and inside white tents--bounce the flash off the walls and ceilings. It is an easy environment.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>If you are in a "perfect'' light --overcast / constant even light --- take your meter and find the combination of shutter/f stop you want to use ---i.e. iso 400 125/ 5.6 --- now make sure your flash in only<strong> </strong> <em><strong>filling</strong> .... </em> delivery only a AUTO f4 light or less (Why I use a Nikon /Metz /T5d flash with our Canon ) ... With the 580 > manual / Ettl {I believe there is new setting with the EX II for AUTO?} .... The flash should only be<em> a hint</em> of the overall exposure .</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natalie_l Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>I was curious if I can alter the camera settings, including "picture" contrast, sharpness, etc? Do you have any thoughts or suggestions for those settings?</p> <p>Thanks C Jo. I'm going to test it out to see if I'm able to fill properly.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Those Picture Styles don't affect the image if you are shooting RAW. They only affect any jpegs you shoot and the LCD rendition of the image. Certain Pictures Styles, like Neutral or Faithful, are deliberately made to keep the image lower contrast, not highly saturated or sharpened, and are meant for people who like to work on their jpegs later in post processing. If you want to control the jpegs you shoot (I believe you said you shoot with RAW and jpeg), you should experiment with the available options for Picture Styles, bringing them into your post processing software and actually making prints before you decide. There are no 'best' Picture Style settings--it depends what you want and what you are going to do with the file later.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natalie_l Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>thanks Nadine! That is exactly what I was curious about. I edit my raw, and will stick with that. I'm going to leave my histogram and blinkies up. I appreciate all your help over the last few days!!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>NADINE OHARA ::</p> <p>I only shoot RAW ---but what would be the brightest setting > of Picture Styles < that would apply to our LCD ... I do very little chimping of the image << just a peak at the histogram randomly... thanks</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>C Jo--not sure what you mean by brightest setting of Picture Styles for the LCD. You know you can adjust LCD brightness and this is outside the Picture Style thing.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cariad Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Don't be afraid to up the ISO on the 5d MarkII specially during the ceremony .......that camera is amazing :)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Thanks Nadine -- I thought the selection in the Picture Styles --set a portion of the LCD preferences --may have to read that manual :-) must be a button somewhere >> thanks</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p ><strong><em>"What settings would you recommend I consider for my low/moderate lit church Friday, which doesnt allow flash."</em></strong></p> <p ><strong><em> </em></strong></p> <p ><strong><em> </em></strong></p> <p ><strong><em>Shutter Speed:</em></strong></p> <p > </p> <p >If Hand Held and with an 85mm lens or shorter: Tv = 1/125s if possible, when the subjects are deemed to be "still". </p> <p > </p> <p >1/100 is your fallback position</p> <p >1/80s is doable but in the area of capturing Subject Motion – Shutter Timing is important. </p> <p >1/60s is dangerous and at the limit in all matters. </p> <p >1/30s doable with precise shutter timing & excellent shutter technique – much easier with a pod.</p> <p >1/15s is astounding. </p> <p >1/8s is a record.</p> <p > </p> <p >“Doable”, "astounding" and "record" are not games to play at a Wedding.</p> <p > </p> <p ><em><strong>ISO:</strong></em></p> <p >Use what you need, to get the Tv required.</p> <p > </p> <p ><em><strong>Lenses:</strong></em> </p> <p >Fast Primes.</p> <p > </p> <p ><em><strong>Aperture: </strong></em></p> <p > </p> <p >Try not to go wide open, but if required then sacrifice Av to get the Tv and frame the image to use the shallow DoF creatively. </p> <p >But you must KNOW the DoF you have, and where the limits reside. </p> <p >F/2.2 is a very nice place to be on the EF50F/1.4, for a Full Length Bride and Groom, shot at 15ft</p> <p >F/2.2 on my 50mm is my “Full Length limit”, as one example.</p> <p > </p> <p ><em><strong>Exposure:</strong></em></p> <p >Never under expose the skin tones - you will reap havoc with noise.</p> <p > </p> <p >A question to you, Natalie, This has slipped through the cracks and gone un-noticed: </p> <p ><strong><em>What Metering Mode do you use?</em></strong></p> <p > </p> <p > </p> <p ><strong ><em >Other stuff:</em></strong></p> <p >Picture Styles do not affect the RAW file, as already mentioned. </p> <p > </p> <p ><strong ><em >Questions not asked: </em></strong>Beyond the "settings" for the Camera, and getting the exposure correct . . . <strong ><em ></em></strong></p> <p > </p> <p ><em >The most critical element of Available Light Capture during a Ceremony is <strong >the ability to move and choose the Camera's Vantage Point.</strong></em></p> <p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p> <p >If possible, seek to roam. Wear quiet shoes. Wear toned down clothing. Do not gesticulate, but move smothly with "stealth" :)</p> <p > </p> <p >If you cannot roam, the camera vantage point should:</p> <p >1a. shoot with the light to create a lightscape with the best modelling possible - beware of spotlights overhead</p> <p >1b.avoid shooting directly into the light - if you have to, then know how to - <em><strong>what metering mode do you use?</strong></em></p> <p ></p> <p >2. predominately feature the face of the Bride, (not the Groom).</p> <p > </p> <p ><em><strong>Beforehand / Preparedness:</strong></em></p> <p ></p> <p >B<strong><em>e sure you know exactly what the No Flash rules are</em></strong>. </p> <p >During what period is "No Flash" in force? </p> <p ><strong ><em >Confirm,</em></strong> <em >before the day</em>, these rules <strong ><em >with the Rule Maker</em></strong> – i.e. the Celebrant in Charge of the Service. </p> <p > </p> <p >This forum is littered with stories of “misinformed”, “unconfirmed”, and “misinterpreted” Rules.</p> <p > </p> <p >WW </p> <p > </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Use the hand meter -- really learn when to use that flash for a FILL or a KEY ...and stick with the manual shutter/aperture ....</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>Stick with manual -- you will have no problems --- Coming from the days of film and not obtaining much ever past ASA 400 -- I shoot a large percentage of my reception shots at 1/15. { Leaning against a door frame an 1/8 is very common} Especially dancing. I have no primes --so usually at 4.0 ( 17-55mm) ---- its the bounce and exposure of the flash that will ensures the extra sharpness ... And I move ~ in time ~ with the B&G, during the dance, about 3+ ft in distance... 28 mm > definitely not PJ.</p> <p>With the tripod/Church --I use a remote and anticipate when to fire ..manual focus and always manual exposure. My max is 10 shots for a full hour ceremony.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natalie_l Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 <p>William - Thank you for your recommendations. I used evaluative metering at the wedding. Would center-weighted be better? I havent experimented with each mode enough to be able to judge (which is a problem). I was told no flash inside the church during the ceremony. Our intention was to take formal pictures inside the church if we were allowed after the ceremony concluded. 1b, I wouldnt know what metering mode to use - if i'm being honest with you and myself. I'm going to google metering... Thanks William!<br> C Jo 10 shots seems incredibly low, but I certainly dont have your level of experience. I know when I see album and proofs, that 10 shots is more than enough. When you put it that way, it does make sense. Thanks C Jo</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 <p>NATALIE --- Never really was trained with alternative modes --just manual ---- I teach manual exposure to all my students . This shot is hand metered --500 iso 1/13 at 3.2 > a QUantum t5d is bounced into a white card on a auto setting of 2.8 ...the meter does all the thinking for me ....although I have shot in this church for 29 years > so have an idea ---the Hassy days were always400 ~ 1/4 sec at f4 ~ with a NIK SB24 bounced at 5.6 into a card .... Just looking for consistency and little or no CS work</p> <div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 <p><strong ><em >I used evaluative metering at the wedding. Would center-weighted be better?</em></strong><strong ><em ></em></strong><br> <br> No, do NOT use centre weighted average metering for available light inside the Church it is likely if you shooting into the light or if the scene is side lit, you will be way of the mark, especially if your Bride is not in the centre of the scene.<br> <br> A detailed answer, including a shooting mode suggestion, is provided in the other (previous) thread, requesting a Critique, please see.<br> <br> WW </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natalie_l Posted August 6, 2009 Author Share Posted August 6, 2009 <p>Thank you William, I will refer to the other thread. I appreciate your help and feedback this week. Greatly appreciated!!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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