Decent body and lens for indoor sport.

[emmanuel_tangonan]

I am a newbie and I am planning to buy a Nikon SLR for my daughter's Tae Kwon Do tournaments. I don't know what kind of lens and body that I need to buy for this purpose. BTW my budget is only $2K. Any input is very much appreciated. Thank you!

[Matt Laur]

<p>At what sort of distance would you normally be shooting? On the floor, nearby... or up in the bleachers 100 feet away?</p>

[rffffffff]

<p>Most of the time, I tell people to buy lenses first and that bodies don't matter that much... In this particular instance, I have a feeling that you are going to be shooting at high ISO a lot of the time, as the lights in those places stink. Unless you are planning on using flash, which I would imagine you are probably not supposed to do, I think spending more on the body and less on lenses would be best...<br>

My hunch is that a D300 with an 85 f/1.8 lens is probably the best bet near your budget, but a D700, assuming you are not too far away, would likely take better pictures, perhaps with the same 85mm lens, a 135 f/2 DC or maybe even a 70-200 f/2.8 VR, but we're talking probably $3K to $4K.<br>

The best suggestion, though, would be to talk to other photographers and see what settings they are shooting at, at what focal lengths, etc. If they are at ISO 1600 and above with f stops in the 2.8 range or below, think long and hard about the D700, but if they are shooting at 200mm all of the time from the stands and cropping all of the pictures, the D300 is a better bet.</p>

[cc_chang2]

<p>Since Tae Kwon Do contestants are unlikely to move about at high speed (unlike basketball players), you do not need one of the more expensive pro bodies (eg D300) that can track objects moving at high speed. If I were you, I would buy the D5000 with the two kit lenses for about $1100 from B&H. The kit lenses are pretty good in terms of IQ for their size and price point and for the range that they can cover: 28 - 300 mm (full frame equivalent). The D5000 uses the latest sensor from Nikon and it does very well in low light so the slow kit lens with VR will most likely work. The D5000 can also shoot movies so it is very versatile. In the future if you upgrade, you can still keep the D5000 as a back up or second body. For the left over money, you can buy a flash, eg SB600 for $200, a tripod, or a fast prime lens such as the new 35mm f1.8 AFS lens for $200.</p>

[trevans]

<p>Robert Gulotta gave you the best advice you'll see. Ask those who are already doing what you want to what they are using, take detailed notes, and then weigh your options/goals against your budget.<br>

CC Chang has a good point about the D5000 body... In fact, get it with just a normal kit lens (since you'll want one for normal shooting) then spend the rest in a good quality, fast telephoto lens. VR won't do you much good since you're trying to shoot at fast shutter speeds anyhow, so look into a telephoto with an aperture of 2.8 or larger (lower numbers = larger aperture). Nikon made one that was (I believe) an 80-200mm 2.8 AF-S that would work well, in my opinion. AF-S is nice because the focus is fast and virtually silent; also, it's a requirement for autofocus if you plan to use the D40/D40x/D60/D5000 series.<br>

As a side note, you said you're a newbie, and somehow you have a 10 Year subscriber badge. How did that happen? (Admins)</p>

[ramon_v__california_]

<p>i would recommend the D90 body or a used or refurb D300. you'll never know what's up next after tae kwon do season. the 18-70mm will be fast enough for this sport. not to mention cheap at less than $200. complement that with a used 80-200mm f/2.8 and you're all set. again, the fast f/2.8 because you'll never know, she might get into basketball, baseball or soccer. although the 70-300mm VR will do, with the benefits of the extra reach and costing less, nothing beats a dedicated fast lens for sports.</p>

<p>a used 80-200mm is only a couple of hundred dollars more than a new 70-300mm VR. but it's a lot heavier than the latter. you can even perhaps get the 16-85mm VR in place of the 18-70mm. the VR is a welcome treat when you shoot at 85mm without flash.</p>

<p>i think the options above will be well within your budget.</p>

[cc_chang2]

<p>I think for a newbie, it may be asking too much to handhold a heavy telephoto lens without the VR, such as the 80-200/2.8. I also think (for the OP that is) that the 80-200/2.8 from Nikon is too big and heavy, and the Sigma 50-150/2.8 may be better if low light shooting is the key. Alternatively Nikon makes a pretty nice 70-300 VR lens. Without the VR, it may be necessary to invest on a light tripod or monopod. I suggest to go with the D5000 because it is the newest Nikon cameras and the video capacity is really fun to use. D90 or D300 are bigger and heavier and may not be the best choice for a newbie for casual/fun shooting. The variangle LCD screen is a great feature IMO to a wider visual point of view, and D5000 is the only Nikon dSLR that has it.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>Anything slower than f/2.8 would of course be unsuitable for indoor sports unless you're using flash. I'd recommend a 35/1.8 DX, a 50/1.4 AF-S, and 85/1.8D and start with those.</p>

[david_peterson9]

<p>Indoor, low-light sports is one of the toughest (and most expensive) problems in photography. Currently the best setup is a D3 or D700 with a couple of pro zooms. Anything less than this will leave you wanting more at some point, and probably sooner than later. For fast moving sports like basketball with baskets at opposite ends of the room, you really need two bodies with approprate lenses for each. Two D700s or D3s, or a combination, with the 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 attached respectively is ideal. Faster lenses only narrow the DOF and will leave you with much fewer sharp, usable photos.<br>

The D300 (refurb or used is ok) and D90 are good compromises for family photos without breaking the bank. For Tae Kwon Do, these would give you great pictures. If you can expand your budget slightly, I would pick up a D90 and the 70-200/2.8 VR. This would give you great pictures and the great glass would maximize your long-term investment value. You can always upgrade the body later. For faster moving sports like basketball, you may need to crank up the iso to 2000-2500 and position yourself appropriately. The phots will impress your neighbors but won't likely win you many awards. For family photos, however, the D300 and good 2.8 glass will give very reasonable results.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>D90 (body only) - for image quality and decent High ISO performance<br>

AF-S VR 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 G IF-ED - for its long reach and VR (most useful when you have to stand back a bit)<br>

AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G DX - for its fast maximum aperture (most useful if you can get close to the action)<br>

2x4GB SD cards<br>

Spare battery</p>

<p> </p>

<em ></em>

[eric_arnold]

<p>d300's AF and FPS would be better than d90. both have good enough high-ISO performance. for this you want a 2.8 zoom and at least one fast prime. i WOULD NOT use a 70-300 VR for indoor anything, especially sports.best focal length will depend on how close you are to the action. use a fast shutter to freeze motion, a slower one to show action. a big variable is venue lighting and whether flash is permitted.</p>

[raymond_petty1]

<p>FYI, for my kids' indoor grammar school BB games in horrible lighting, I usually favor the much cheaper 80/1.8D over my 80-200/2.8 AF-S for the extra stop. Sounds like you should be able to get close enough to the action for for this to work. Of course I only have a D200. If you get a D300 or D90, the newer sensor should allow you to be able to get to ISO 1600 with nice results. Go higher at your own risk. Remember the D90 has the D200's auto focus CAM and will not perform as well as the D300 in low light.</p>

 

[stank]

<p>Just to share something I have run into with the consumer grade bodies and sports... I have been using my D70s to shoot swim meets primarily using a Nikon 70-210 AF-D (screw drive) lens. While this is one of Nikons fastest focusing screw drive lenses, the set up just does not AF track very well. </p>

<p>I recently tried a friends D200 with this same lens and it did very well. Apparently the pro-sumer bodies (D100, D200, D300, D700) and pro bodies have more robust AF motors. </p>

<p>Playing with AF-S lenses in the store on my D70s also seems to be a good combination. Therefore, for consumer bodies, strongly consider AF-S or Sigma HSM lenses. For some of the newer bodies you will have no choice as they only AF with AF-S lenses.</p>

<p>Stan</p>

[oskar_ojala]

<p>The key question is how far are you from the action, which the dictates what focal length you need to use. A typical choice for a lens is a 80-200/2.8 as it offers flexibility in terms of focal lengths and is reasonably fast. Do not get anything slower than f2.8 -- indoor venues are not that well lit and you want to freeze the action as much as possible and VR doesn't help at all when the contestants move. If you know the focal length you can get a prime such as the 105/2 for extra speed. For a body, the D700 is the best in terms of low light performance, but it's expensive. The D300 and D90 go a long way for this also.<br>

Remember, speed is king! Nobody cares about pictures of two blurry blobs around each other.</p>

[emmanuel_tangonan]

<p><strong>Thank you so much for the reply!</strong> The distance that I'll be shooting is more or less at 25-35<br>

ft. and the venue is not well lit. I didn't realize that indoor sport photography is complex and<br>

expensive. I thought that you can just point and shoot. It's a good thing that I came across<br>

with this forum and it really helps me a lot on what body and lens to buy. Again, thank you<br>

so much for all the input.</p>

[david_peterson9]

<p>At 25-35 ft, you could get an inexpensive 50/1.8 and a D300 in your budget. You may have to crop some of the photos, not difficult. This is the setup I started out with and then added a couple of 2.8 zooms. I have really wanted the D700 but have opted to invest in glass first and pick up a successor to the D700 at some point down the road. Best wishes on your journey.</p>

[david_peterson9]

<p>I would hesitate to use the AF-S VR 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 G IF-ED for indoor, low-light sports. It might be ok for slow moving action with the iso cranked up, but I wouldn't count on it. You will want faster glass, though as I indicated earlier, there is a limit even here due to depth-of-field considerations. Thus the benefit of high iso + fast glass (= expensive!).</p>

[wpahnelas]

<p>if you could swing for a D5000 and a 105/2.8 AF-S lens, i think that combo might do you very well. shutter priority, auto ISO, and you might very well get close to point-and-shoot simplicity. this combo would easily come in below your budget, allowing for extras like memory cards, etc. if 105mm is too long, there's a 60/2.8 AF-S lens that's a candidate, i think. but as suggested above, ask others what they're using. it's bound to be very instructive.</p>

[tom_anderson9]

Like many above, I'd suggest the D5000, because for indoor sports your most important requirement is low light performance, and the D5000 is the least expensive Nikon with the new DX format sensor, that is great in low light. Beyond the D5000, you're paying for features aimed at the enthusiest or pro, and extra ruggedness, not greater image quality in the DX format.

<p>

For a lens, I'd suggest the 50/1.8, because it has great low light performance and it's a great deal. I'd also suggest the 18-55VR lens, not for indoor sports but as a sharp, inexpensive zoom lens for everyday use. This is about half your budget.

<p>

Later on, if you want to shoot outdoor sports, or indoor sports that are farther away, or portraits, I'd sugest you look at the Sigma 70-210/2.8 zoom. This is much faster (brighter) than the 4-5.6 lenses, and because of that is much better suited to low light action use and sports than those slower lenses, even if they have VR. It's a sharp lens, and less than $1k. The best Nikon brand equivalent is the 80-200/2.8, which is over $1k, probably won't focus as fast on the D5000 because it's screw driver focus, or the 70-200/2.8VR which is fast focusing and has VR, but is close to $2k.

[szrimaging]

<p>Distance is a key factor. I would say if you are close enough, 1.4 or 1.8 primes are the way to go. Otherwise, Nikkor or Sigma pro glass (f2.8) for zooms. Buy the glass used, if possible, just make sure it is still in good condition. D300 or D200 for your body. Although, as you are indoors, I would expect a lot of blacks, so I might stay away from the D200 a bit. It does seem to have issues with the blacks.</p>

[rffffffff]

<p>I think the D5000 advice is steering you into $1500 lenses very quickly. The lack of an AF motor in the body is big trouble in low light with nikon's current lens lineup. the 50 1.8 ($110) and the 85 1.8 (~$350?) both wont focus on that body, and you are going to want that kind of lens indoors in a gym. The 80-200 afs and 70-200 are $1000+. You are going to want a fast shutter speed, like 1/500 or more to really have sharp feet in motion, which means that f/2.8 is going to leave you at high ISO already, where f/2 will cut that ISO number in half, which is why I suspect prime lenses will help greatly. If you go with the D5000 and the f/2.8 zoom, and then you need more light, you're kinda stuck because you can't use most prime lenses on that body.<br>

I am not sure of the difference in price between the D90 and D300, but I also think the AF on the D300 will be worth the price you pay for it... keep in mind that you are going to be shooting relatively close to the subjects, which is harder for AF, and potentially using screw drive focus lenses, which also is hard on AF, so I would go for the best AF system, which the D300 has.<br>

From experience, kit lenses or anything with a variable max aperture is going to be trouble in this environment unless you have a lot of sun streaming through the gym windows... That seems to be the great exception, though, not the rule.</p>

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