Flash Setting for Wedding Reception

[darren_sukul]

<p>Hi, <br>

I'll be a secondary shooter for wedding reception next month. I have a 40D + 17-50 f/2.8 and got a new 580EX flash. I did some reading and I'm thinking of using the following setting.<br>

Camera on Manual -> f/4 or f/5.6 and Shutter Speed 1/80. Flash on TTL (will adjust FEC).<br>

Is this the basic appoach for indoor lighting? I've tried Av (I seem to get slow shutter speed and I see ghosting (not sure if its right word). I also tried Tv (1/60), camera always selected f/2.8, which caused the people not sharp.<br>

Also what setting do you use get nice depth of field ie. with f/2.8 and flash. I know how it works if there is no flash.. I'm a bit not sure about the flash settings.<br>

Thanks,<br>

Darren</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Your settings will 'generally' work in your typical dimly lit night time or no-window reception room, although you don't give the ISO. With ISO 800 and higher, you'd be OK--'generally'. There is no one basic approach to indoor lighting. Most people drag the shutter. Try searches on the topic and reading about it at the planetneil.com site about using on camera flash.</p>

<p>The reason you get ghosting is because with Canon cameras, AV will always expose for the ambient light--therefore, since the ambient light is low, longer shutter speed are chosen. Even with flash, the flash will not freeze motion because the ambient is not underexposed in relation to the flash EV. TV will, in those situations, always go for the widest lens aperture available, because, again, it is going for the 'correct' ambient exposure. Being dim, you usually can't open up enough for the correct exposure, given a faster shutter speed.</p>

<p>Here is one thread.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/009NM4">http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/009NM4</a></p>

<p>You can't just use one setting to cover all dragging the shutter situations. If you understand the concept, you can figure out what to use.</p>

<p>As for DOF with f2.8 and flash, the flash part does not matter to pure DOF, unless you are talking about flash fall off as distance increases. Which is it?</p>

[darren_sukul]

<p>I previous used 85mm and I found it I had to use it at f/1.8 with ISO 3200 without flash which didn't have enough depth. <br>

Now with the flash, I think I should be able to stop down to f/4 or higher. Do you guys do this with flash?</p>

 

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Since you are 2nd shooting, suggest that you ask the lead photographer and defer to his/her wishes. If the lead shooter is not the studio owner, then they would be a good resource as well.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>OK--this is why the push today toward using wide apertures and no flash all the time is disturbing. You are kind of mixing up the theories of flash/dragging the shutter and DOF. When you decided to use the 85mm at ISO 3200 and f1.8, did you realize that the DOF was going to be razor thin? I'm guessing not, since you proceeded anyway and didn't use flash with a slightly smaller aperture and lower ISO.</p>

<p>Always know the kind of DOF you need for the subject matter, THEN decide how you are going to get the picture. DOF is dependent upon 3 things--subject distance, f stop and focal length. With a telephoto like the 85mm (even longer on a cropped sensor camera), f1.8 is going to give a much narrower DOF than f1.8 on a wide angle. It is going to give an even thinner DOF if the subject is close to you than if they are farther away.</p>

<p>So yes, using flash will allow you to expose the subject correctly and use a smaller aperture in that particular lighting scenario. Whether that flash gives you nice light is another matter (bouncing or modified). And whether the background registers in a pleasing way is yet another matter (dragging the shutter).</p>

<p>I do use flash in dim conditions such as receptions venues so I don't have to use ISO 3200 and f1.8. If flash is primary anyway, there is no point in using ISO 3200 unless maybe you have a D700 or D3, where ISO 3200 is just fine. I like to keep the ISO down--I use ISO 800, sometimes 1600 at most receptions.</p>

<p>I would recommend you go to dofmaster.com and download their free software. Read and search for DOF info.</p>

[darren_sukul]

<p>Actually, I used ISO 3200 and f/1.8 because I didn't have an external flash. Now that I have flash. My question really is what is closest I could get to automatic flash. I know manual flash with umberalla or softbox would be nice, but won't for chaning light situation as wedding. It seems like the best mode is Camera on Manual with Flash TTL. From what I've been reading this seems to be the approach.</p>

[kathy_riddle2]

<p><em>"It seems like the best mode is Camera on Manual with Flash TTL."</em> </p>

<p>Darren - This could be best mode, but only up to 10 feet max. Then you have to add power on your flash unit to plus 1 or 2. Also under 2 or 3 feet you actually have to dim the flash unit to minus 1 or 2, or the images will blow out on you.</p>

<p>For learning good technique I'd keep your ISO set to 400 or 800 and leave it there. There's too many things happening by changing or moving just 1 thing on the camera or the flash unit. Results can be painful. Once you understand the complicated inner workings of the camera and the flash, then you can fine tune your camera and explore the limits of it.</p>

<p><em></em></p>

[zotz]

<p>I typically set my cameras on Manual when shooting with flash indoors, because allowing the camera to choose the aperture or shutter speed takes away too much control. My chosen settings vary by the motion expected, and the need to incorporate available light.<br /> <br /> This is the gear I use at indoor or dimly-lit events:</p>

<ul>

<li>Cam1: 40D, battery grip, 17-55/2.8 IS, 580EX(or II), battery pack, CB rotator,<br /> sometimes an OmniBounce or Lumiquest Mini Softbox </li>

<li>Cam2: 20D, 85/1.8, 580EX(or II) sometimes </li>

</ul>

<p>Cam1, depending on available light, is usually set to ISO 400 or 800, Manual, f/5.6, and 1/60-125. The flash is sometimes set for second-curtain sync - when motion blur is unavoidable, I want it behind, not in front. I also bounce the flash off available surfaces or use a diffuser, depending on the situation or creative opportunity.<br /> <br /> Cam2 is set for ISO 800 or 1600 (gulp), f/1.8-2.8, at least 1/60. I often use it without flash to catch closeups and other moments from a bit father across the room. Sometimes I wish for a 100/2.0, as my 70-200/2.8 IS is too beastly in tight quarters, and the 24-105/4.0 IS is not bright enough.<br /> <br /> That said, I'm with Nadine on the topic of wide-open shooting. We should do our best to take advantage of natural light, but I find the present fad of wide-open lenses at the expense proper exposure, definition, and usable DOF to be - dare I say - snobbish in some cases. Can we expect within several years the progress of technology to deliver truly clean images at very high ISO? Certainly, but the 'strobist movement' is clear evidence of the continuing desire to control the delivery and quality of light, wherever it may be originated.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Darren--OK, so you didn't have an external flash. However, if you decided to try to get ambient light shots, then maybe you should not have used an 85mm lens, which is actually equivalent to 136mm, if you knew the aperture would be f1.8. You could have used normal or wide angle lenses, which would have done two things. First, you could use slower shutter speeds without hand shake, allowing smaller apertures. Second, even if you still had to use f1.8, the DOF would not be so thin.</p>

<p>Anyway, re your question about using automated flash. Most wedding photographers use manual camera mode with automated (TTL or auto thyristor) flash indoors. Some use manual flash mode as well, but not as many. The reason for the manual camera mode is to be able to control the shutter drag ratios. Read the articles mentioned and do the research, and you will understand why.</p>

<p>Indoors in a single room, bouncing flash off the ceiling, you could very well use manual flash mode since the parameters don't change much in such a situation. The only time you'd have to perhaps ramp the flash back is when you subject approaches you and is maybe, within 5 feet of you. This is because the subject is now getting light from the front of the flash reflector.</p>

[booray]

<p><em>Is this the basic appoach for indoor lighting?</em><br>

<em></em><br>

That's a hard to say without having more info. For example, if I am shooting dance floor pics in a windowless and dark room I might set to f2.8 and 1/15th because the flash will stop the movement. However, if there is light from windows or just general ambient brightness (lets not forget the videographer's light) then I won't drop my shutter below 125th because of motion blur. I am always bouncing, never direct. DOF is not so bad at 2.8 if you are shooting very wide angle.</p>

[kevin_graham2]

<p>Adding to this a bit, does anyone ever dial down the ambient to wipe out the background completely? I've had some situations in locations where the subject was amazing, but we had an unfortunate background. Even with DOF, it was still hard to get certain items out of the shot (i.e. stains on the wall of the reception, guests who may draw attention away, ugly curtains, etc.).<br>

In that case, is it okay to go with more of an "in the cave" look?</p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>Not a rule, but I usually find myself shooting around the F4.5 mark on a crop body (what I use for this kind of work) and 1/60th for frozen action. When not using manual flash settings (which I do a lot for the off camera work), I will FEC as needed. ISO is a big factor and if you are shooting with a body that can handle it, I would most often shoot at 1250 or 1600 iso.</p>

<p>So, your settings look fine to me, but not the AV or TV modes.</p>

[madredhen]

<p>Rick Zots-<br>

Would it be better to use the 40D on high iso (flashless) and the 20D for the flash since the 40D has less noise? I'm in the same boat with the 2 cameras, 40D and a 10D right now and much as I'd like to use the 40 more than the other, it has much better ISO than either the 10 or 20 so I'm going to try dedicating it to low-light and using the other- my backup really- for flash.</p>

[zotz]

<p>Darcy,<br /> <br /> True - I can understand your choice. My situation is a compromise, but a manageable one. The 20D isn't really that far behind the 40D in apparent noise, and I find the results are acceptable. The 40D rig usually gets more work during most events because I prefer its agility and resolution (it's also too much trouble to move the battery grip and redo straps to use the 20D on the bracket). During the ceremony, the 40D has a long lens and the 20D has a wide-angle zoom, again giving the 40D more of the work.<br /> <br /> The situation would be simpler if we both had a pair of 5D-II's. :-D</p>