New 50D question - should I keep it?

[patriciabb]

<p>I'm in a wee bit of a dilemma and hoping someone can give me some advice...<br>

I purchased a Canon 50D kit with the intention of swapping the body with my son for his 40D. The 40D body and the kit lens from the 50D would be mine. In addition he was to sell his 30D backup camera and I would let him use the 40D as his backup but I get the proceeds from the sale. He never used the 30D very much so I figure it was a great deal. Besides he was going to show me how to use the 40D and let me use his L-series lenses - a win-win or so I thought...<br>

Well the first 50D I brought home went back the next day, the pictures were just awful. The second 50D fared better but the colors were off compared to the 40D but we went through with the trade. Two days ago he gave me back the 50D body and took the 40D back. Said the colors were not acceptable. Showed me the same photos out of the two cameras and yes I can see the difference. He shoots in raw mode only. He does some post processing of the images out of his 30D & 40D but he said there was too much to fiddle with all the time on the 50D and he didn't get the level of sharpness that he was getting (he does a lot of nature photography, especially birds). I don't know much about photography, haven't had a SLR camera for over 30 years and this was going to be my jump back in, now I'm thinking I should have stayed away -- far away. This was a major purchase for me and the camera I end up with would probably be my last one (I even bought a whole bunch of 40D books to learn it thoroughly)<br>

Now I'm in the position of wondering what to do with the 50D? Should the colors in raw mode be so different? IOW could it be the camera that's at fault? I know he went through three 40D bodies before one was acceptable, albeit one was DOA right out of the box; however he is VERY picky about his pictures and color. Should I return the 50D and get a less expensive Rebel since I'm told that the 50D is too much camera for an old gal like me - but then I think he said that the new rebel uses the same whatever that causes the 50D color issues - remember I know nothing about these cameras - yet! I would buy another 40D but they're no longer available at the store so I'm in a bit of a pickle about what to do or which Canon would be similar to the 40D. Any advice would be welcomed because I'm just sitting here looking at this 50D scratching my head wondering what to do about it...</p>

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[matthijs]

<p>I own a 400D/XTI and a 50D. The colors I get from my 50D impress me every time I use it. I'd say there must be something wrong with the copy you have or with the postprocessing your son does.</p>

<p>My personal experience is that it takes a little while to get used to a new camera and the slight differences in needed postprocessing.</p>

<p>Another experience of mine is that I must be a little more careful when shooting my 50D than my 400D if I want super sharp results. That said, when it's good the 50D's better than the 400D.</p>

<p>If you visit a brick-and-mortar store I'd advice you to visit them and tell them the entire story. Then, if they come up with a useful solution take them up on it and if they don't request a new 50D or a calibration by Canon on this one because the colors just might be off.</p>

<p>Hope this helps, Matthijs.</p>

[bobatkins]

<p>Everything depends on your settings. What white balance, what picture style, what color corrections are set?</p>

<p>I suspect this is "user error". 9 times out of 10 the camera simply hasn't been set up to deliver the results the photographer wants.</p>

<p>RAW simply displays the images with whatever camera settings have been made. They can be changed of course, but the default RAW reflects the camera settings.</p>

[claytontullos]

<p>Please post examples.</p>

[i._l.]

<p>Sounds very complicated relationship. Would it not be better just to make the camera your own - be it 50d or 40d?</p>

[PuppyDigs]

<p>I had a 40D for a year and upgraded to a 50D. Like your son, I was disappointed with initial 50D IQ. However, having owned many DSLRs, I suspected I merely needed to learn the idiosyncrasies of the new camera. In other words, the 50D CMOS and associated electronics, besides being higher rez, are different from the 40D CMOS, so you have to learn new RAW processing routines to get the most from it.</p>

<p>And, after a few weeks of dickin' about in DPP and PS I gradually nailed it. So, 9 months out from my upgrade, I can say IQ from my 50D is better than my old 40D and gives me much more room to crop and enlarge. 12 x 18 prints look smoother and more detailed. Plus, 50D metering algorithms handle difficult fill flash and backlit situations much better than the 40D (less manual overrides). And of course the LCD is amazing.</p>

<p>So basically I do not spend spend more time processing 50D RAW file than 40D RAW files. However, I had to learn to tweak them differently. So at first it took longer. Once I nailed it, I spend a little less times in post processing 50D files than 40D files. I went through a similar process with the 20D and 5D. It's part of learning a new DSLR. Of all the DSLRs I have owned, the 10D required the most intense post processing routine. The 20D needed less but much more than the 40D and 50D. My 5D seems to need the fewest tweaks, closely followed by the 50D.</p>

<p>Also the choice of RAW converter makes a lot of difference. If you set Picture Style and camera parameters exactly as you like them, Canon's DPP will open the RAW with these as defaults. Other RAW converters like ACR make you start from scratch or use generic camera profiles, so I have to work a long time to get to where DPP starts.</p>

[tomwatt]

<p>Although my 50D doesn't provide quite the stunning imagery that my 5D does, I find it's ability to rapid fire offsets any loss in gorgeousness. The pixel dithering it does strikes me as odd compared to the 5D (pixel-peeping, you just got to once in a while), but even so, it makes beautiful color images, and the ACR settings have been tweaked for each camera, so that I get very similar results from virtually the same workflow process.<br>

I guess I"m echoing Puppy Face in that regard. I'm not seeing the kinds of issues or unacceptability that you are. Show us da' peeechures!</p>

[peter_mckone]

<p>Is there a photography club in your hometown, where you might find someone with Canon experience who could give you a second opinion?</p>

[Marcus Ian]

<p>I to would love to see the pictures. I've been impressed with a lot of the facets of the 50D, and I'm quite comfortable with the range it gives me. Yes, it's different, but I've found that with the proper post, the images can be just as good as my old 5d1.</p>

<p>Though I must admit, it sounds from the post that this problem is far more related to the operator than the equipment. Because total in just 40 & 50 Ds, he's gone through SEVEN bodies? seven NEW bodies? Frankly, If he's that picky about it, maybe he just needs to be looking at a different level of equipment. Though considering all that, I'm not sure a 1D3 or 1Ds3 would be enough camera. I shoot mostly people, so I don't have the same requirements he does. But as a general rule, If you are consistently displeased with your results, and blame the camera body... maybe you should be willing to pay something for a better unit.</p>

 

[Michael Eckstein]

<p>The odds of a camera body getting a poor user are much greater than the odds of a user getting a poor camera body.</p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>Most of the tests do not show a significant IQ improvement from the 40d to the 50D until you get to big prints. the issue appears to be that the extra pixels and Digix IV processing improvements were offset by the much higher density of pixels on the sensor. This may mean that the lens resolution is a big limiting factor as it is being tested much more on the 50D than the 40D. Canon kit lenses are not that good - try your tests with your son's L series lens and see if this creates more of a differential between the 40D and 50D</p>

[pbizarro]

<p>This sounds like the typical example of getting a new camera, and expecting it to deliver what you are used to from the older camera. It does not work that way. The post-processing routine your son uses for the 40D does not give the same results with the 50D.<br>

More over, colour is the most subjective parameter there is; every human being perceives and interprets colour differently, because it is a construction from the brain. In terms of sharpness, as said above, an increase in pixel count will require better lenses, if your son does not have them yet.</p>

[jim_simon3]

<p>I suggest that both you and your son go to <a href="http://www.birdsasart.com">www.birdsasart.com</a> by Art Morris and look at the many photos in his bulletins he has taken recently with the 50D. for all the complaining about the camera by people who don't seem to use it, he really likes it and uses it. The sharpness of the photos is quite something.</p>

[mike_oflaherty]

<p>Just a quick question about the color in post production. What are you using to calibrate the monitor? If nothing I would start there instead of blaming the cameras. You can pic up a cheap color calibrating tool from most camera shops for $100.</p>

[patriciabb]

<p>I would like to thank all that answered! I've read each and every reply and visited everythng suggested - your advice was greatly appreciated. I decided that I was going to keep the 50D for myself - I figure I'm not to old to learn. I have to learn the lingo first so I picked up David Busch's book on the 50D and ordered up some Camera RAW books to get and understanding of it all and some photo workshop books to practice, plus I'll be lurking and learning in the community. I haven't used anything other than the little point & shoots for the last years , my last 'real' camera was a minolta xg something back in the 70s so I have some catching up to do - LOL...</p>

[alan_myers]

<p>Hi Patricia,</p>

<p>Good! Glad to hear you are going to give it a go. There is always a learning curve with a new camera.</p>

<p>In the meantime, why not shoot some RAW + JPEG and see how Canon's preset in-camera conversions handle the files? Who would know better than Canon, what it takes to get the most out of the camera. I know it means giving up the control of RAW, but once you can match or surpass their JPEGs, you'll know your post processing skills have arrived. In the meantime, you'll have a bit of a guide and goal to shoot for, looking at the JPEGs.</p>

<p>One other thing... Have you or your son updated the firmware in the 50D? How about the conversion software on your computer, is it up to date? When new hardware comes out, software and firmware always lag and play catch up.</p>

<p>I started using 50Ds within the past couple months and am finding their image quality excellent... but I was upgrading from 30Ds. And the first thing I always do, after that initial "photograph everything that holds still long enough" binge when a new camera arrives, is update the firmware. All three of the cameras I got were one or two versions out of date. DPP and CS4 needed updating on my computer, too.</p>

<p>Won't it be fun showing your son your shots that look even better than his?</p>