advice on what to charge

[melissa_arcuri1]

<p>I shot a first communion two weeks ago. I worked for approximately 3 hrs, produced 300+ images(all on a cd for the customer) and printed 200 4x6 proofs for the customer.<br>

How much would everyone charge?<br>

thanks</p>

[betty_lowrey]

<p>Shouldn't you have worked that out prior to doing the job? Didn't the client ask about the price?<br>

I charge $300 for non-wedding events.</p>

[melissa_arcuri1]

<p>You would think, right? I know I know! I have done work for these people for years. Unfortunately because I do not enjoy doing these events and I apparently devalue my work I usually undercharge them. THIS IS COMPLETELY MY FAULT. I am always afraid they are going to say "thats too much".</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<blockquote>

<p>I am always afraid they are going to say "thats too much".</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Melissa,<br>

Gee, they might say "No" and you won't have to!<br>

If you don't want to do this type of work for them (or anyone), there is a price point where you will be happy to do it. That's what you should quote. <br>

I think that the work you did, with the product you produced and you're giving them the files is worth about $1,000.....-Aimee</p>

[kayumangi]

<p>Well, lesson learned. Next time before you book anything make sure you do a Cost of Goods analysis. From there you'll know exactly what you should be charging.</p>

<p>This is how I do it, maybe it can help you.</p>

<p>First off, I determine how much is my base hourly rate (the amount it costs me to operate my business per hour). I do that by averaging all my monthly bills from electricity to DSL to telephone. I then add that up with all my other monthly expenses that are related to photography. I then divide that amount by the number of hours I work in a month related to photography. What I get is my hourly cost to operate.</p>

<p>Once I determine that, I count how many hours I shot and then I double that because for each hour I shoot I need to devote at least an hour to post-process. I then multiply that with my base hourly rate and I get my base total price just for shooting.</p>

<p>I then need to determine how much it costs me to print, be it outsourced or not. If its outsourced I sum up the print cost, the shipping and handling costs, and the taxes. That amount is the total printing cost.</p>

<p>I then sum the total printing cost and the base total price just for shooting. The amount I get is my break even price.</p>

<p>I choose to multiply that amount with 150% = 100% covers the costs needed, 30% for taxes and 20% for profit. Obviously you can tweak that but should be your baseline.</p>

<p>This is my formula anyway, but feel free to use it. The important thing is that you should understand what you are charging, rather than asking how much you should charge because our clients and demographics are not always the same.</p>

[savagesax]

<p>Your time per hour, including traveling to and from the lab, double the price of proof ablums and triple the price of the 4X6 prints. There should also be a fee for post production. We also charge for the DVD, because you won't be getting any reprint orders. If our studios took this job, we'd charge according to what I wrote, plus $150 per hour for our time and $600 for the DVD.</p>

<p>For the record, we don't give out DVD's because that drastically effects our reorders, thats why I've suggested $600 for giving away your talent and copyrights.</p>

[savagesax]

<p>Betty, is $300 based on labor alone? The reason I'm asking is the proofs probably cost about 30 cents each, unless you go to Costco or a place that doesn't correct anything. Anyway, based on 30 cents per proof, thats about $60, leaving the photographer with just $240 for all of that work! I'm pretty sure you meant $300 based, on per hour and not including the proofs.</p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Aimee......have you seen the work produced?</p>

<p><em><strong>"I think that the work you did, with the product you produced and you're giving them the files is worth about $1,000.....-Aimee"</strong> </em></p>

<p>Hard to understand your answer otherwise.....</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Going to agree with Aimee here, 100%. $1000 sounds very reasonable based on labor, product, time and a reasonable profit. We would probably charge $1500, but I don't know your skill level. But just base price I think $1000 would be very reasonable to start at.</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Bob Cossar,<br>

Quality wasn't part of the question or my answer. I responded to labor, cost of goods and the digital files.....-Aimee</p>

[melissa_arcuri1]

<p>THANKS EVERYONE! I realize I can not continue to be so casual about the jobs I get. Just because this isn not what I do full-time doesnt mean my talent and my time are not worth it. I nee to tell them the price ahead of time and if its not what they are looking for than I guess I am not the photographer for them.<br>

Once again, THANKS! I am so grateful this site exists! I am going to incorporate all of your suggestions into a formula that works for me!</p>

 

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Melissa,<br>

If you get a call for something that isn't your favorite thing to do, put a price tag on it that's high enough so that you don't mind. I you really don't want to do it, develop a network with other photographers in your area and refer one of them....-Aimee</p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Aimee....How can quality NOT be a part of pricing.......If someone builds a roof that leaks you might imagine he won't get very good prices. Labour etc. is absolutely tied to the quality of the results.....so how can the quality of the product be disregarded when considering the price?? It can't.</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<blockquote>

Quality wasn't part of the question or my answer.</p>

</blockquote>

I didn't say it shouldn't be part of the price consideration, it just wasn't what Melissa asked. Besides, quality is in the eyes of the beholder when it comes to photographs. We're not talking about an album that's falling apart or a roof that's leaking. Photographs don't function in that way. Melissa's customer has hired her repeatedly, so they obviously like her work. Her question only pertained to time and materials....-Aimee<br>

PS - Besides do you believe that the best quality photography really brings the highest price? And do you believe that the best quality photographer in any area makes the most money? Unfortunately, not on this earth...-Aimee</p>

[melissa_arcuri1]

<p>Thanks Aimee for all your thoughts and advice. Plus, your response to Bob's comment was worded perfectly. I understand what he was asking but you are 100% RIGHT!</p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Hi Aimee....The quality issue is<em><strong> intrinsically</strong> </em> involved in Melissa's question. If you take the time and materials Melissa asked about, but the photographs are simply poor snapshots.....then should that <strong>not</strong> affect the price?<br>

And, while I do generally agree with your "ps", the fact is that, if you desire to be in a higher price market, then quality of the product <strong>is</strong> a definite factor.<br>

So, my answer to the original query still is that you can't determine what the price "should" be, without any regard as to the quality of the product produced. It might have been helpful for Melissa to have included some samples, or a link.....regards to all....Bob</p>

 

[melissa_arcuri1]

<p>Bob,<br>

Thank you for your input. I am sorry if my question has caused any strife. I will upload some examples when I get home(can not do from my office :))<br>

Please note: the church had hired a photogrpaher for the communion ceremony and did not allow others to shoot. I was hired by the parents to shoot several family portraits at the church afterwards. Most importantly i was hired to go to the party afterward and "capture the day)</p>

[dean_riggott]

<p>I haven't read all of your responses, but the rate should depend much more on the quality of the work, than the time it took to do the job. Someone who is new & inexperienced will likely produce lesser results and be worth a lot less than someone who is very experienced and very good. The rate could easily range from $300.00-1200.00, depending on these factors. When I do a similar shoot, I charge $250/hour, plus expenses and a 12% digital management fee.</p>

<p>All the best.</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Going to have to say 100% Aimee, 0% Bob on this one.</p>

[think27]

<p>I'm 100@ with Bob. It's a no brainer as far as I'm concerned and if this is what the market has become - and Amiee, Cathy and David are indeed correct - then I'm glad I retired this year. </p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Well said MaryBall.....Bob</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Unfortunately, this is what a GROWING PORTION of the market has indeed become. As time goes on, there are fewer who appreciate good quality. Also, don't ever assume that "new" goes with poor quality and "experienced" goes with good quality. Often times it's not the case. Anyone ever submit entries or view a print competition? The number of higher scores and awards has NOTHING to do with experience. Some are just naturally more talented than others and some just never get "there".<br>

One more thing - the better the marketer, the better and more profitable the business is. We'd all like to believe that if we emulate Yervant that our businesses will be just as successful, but it's not all about the photography. We all have a competitor that we can't believe stays busy and charges what they do. Most people don't know the difference. It's just the way it is....-Aimee</p>

[bobcossar]

<p>Aimee.....that's the way it has <strong>always</strong> been.....but there are some in the profession who say <strong>NO</strong> ...we will not cater to that market level, because we take pride in what we do.<br>

And, it works for those of us who choose that route. People come to me for a number of reasons....Quality at all levels, no corners cut, sensitivity and a proven background in art, and a professional attitude of excellence.<br>

And also Aimee....it is never a question of<strong> "emulating"</strong> anyone. You say it's not all about the photography.....well, actually...it <strong>mostly is.</strong><br>

Take a look at where you are in your market area.<strong> You are there because of what you did to get there.</strong> <br>

You want a classy business with high standards? Then settle for nothing less in yourself and your products.....but if you don't like where you are, you can't just shrug and say, <strong>"it's just the way it is"</strong> because that's just a cop-out. You want better? Then you <strong>DO</strong> better.<br>

Regards....genuinely....Bob</p>

[dean_riggott]

<p>I agree that marketing can greatly effect the success of your business, as well as the price you're able to demand. I often see very mediocre photographers charging (and getting!) as much as far more talented photographers.</p>

<p>As for experience having nothing to do with quality, I would have to disagree with that for the most part. There are no doubt very talented photographers who have little experience. And there are definitely very experienced photographers who have little talent, and therefor produce low-quality work. But there are very few inexperienced photographers who consistently produce exceptional work. I see one here and there who definitely has a lot of potential, and who are very talented, but the only thing that will turn them into a top-knotch photographer is experience. But you need to start with talent and ambition.</p>

<p>So when I said "very experienced," notice that I also included "very good." Because you're right, you can be very experienced and not be very good. I see A LOT of that! But those are generally the photographers who are getting very little money for their work. We have a few guys in my area who have been shooting weddings for 30 years and only get $1500-2200.00 for their packages.</p>

<p>There are also those who are perceived as good photographers and charge as much as more talented photographers, because they have done a good job of marketing themselves. Because as we all know, image is everything in this country! Sad, but true.</p>

<p> </p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Bob,<br>

Of course there are clients who hire for quality. My point was that those numbers are shrinking, not non-existent. <br>

I have a very successful wedding business and we average about $4,000/wedding with my largest sale ever being over $17,000. I deliver a great product and my business is almost totally by referral -even in today's economy. <br>

...-Aimee</p>