Contax 645 vs. Mamiya 645 AFD II or III

[a._robert]

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<p >So I know this has been touched on over the past almost decade, but I’m looking for current opinions. I’m looking at getting an auto focusing 645 system and I’ve narrowed it down to the Contax 645 and Mamiya 645 AFD II or III. I would like to hear what people’s opinions are on the Contax system versus the Mamiya system. If you suggest the Mamiya, is the II that much different than the III?</p>

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<p >What I’m looking for is something with auto focusing, aperture/shutter priority, interchangeable backs, and data imprinting. I will use this mostly for lifestyle/catalog work and I need something that’s not manual focus. I currently own and use Hasselblads and a Mamiya RZ Pro II that are great for studio stuff or when I’ve got the time to compose. But I want something smaller, lighter and faster. I know that the AF is slow compared to today’s digital world and I’m fine with that, as I’m not shooting sports.</p>

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<p >I really want to commit to the Contax as I’ve basically only heard positive things about it, but the thing that’s holding me back is that it’s no longer manufactured and service will stop in, give or take, 5 years. I love the Zeiss glass that Contax uses (I use it on the Hasselblads) and I think that AF Zeiss would be amazing. I also really like that they are all about a stop faster than most eqivanent lenses from other systems. I will be using mostly natural light with occasional fill flash, so the slow sync speed doesn’t bother me too much. Can anyone give me a clear idea on what exactly it’s like composing and focusing a shot in the center, then moving the focused subject off the side? I’ve heard this system has problems with that (I think technically it’s called focus lock…). Any word on another company reviving this system? I also am concerned with battery life? I can’t spend a fortune on batteries every 3^rd roll I shoot.</p>

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<p >I like the sound of the Mamiya AFD systems also, though I wish they had a waist level finder in addition to the prism. I’m familiar with Mamiya glass and like it a lot even though it’s not quite what the Zeiss glass is. I also like the fact that I don’t think I’ve got to worry about them going out of business anytime soon. I've heard great things about this system as well and it's a newer creation than the Contax is. Thinking a year or two down the road, I might consider getting a digital back if I choose the Mamiya.</p>

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<p >I’m not interested in Hasselblad or Pentax 645 systems but others not yet mentioned I might be open to. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.</p>

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[bill_dewberry]

<p>Well, 5 years to run with the Contax sounds long time to me, who knows where film processing will be then anyway. The good thing about the Contax is the lenses, as you know, the bad thing is the price. The mamiya is certainly the more " logical " choice, less expensive, supported by a company that is and will continue in business, more " economical", option to add a digital back if you like.<br>

Tough call. Your heart is with Contax, your head is with mamiya. Everytime I compare my hasselblad images vs my RZ images, I really appreciate that Zeiss glass.</p>

[kevin_wong7]

<p>Hi Adam, I bought a Mamiya 645 AFD about 2 months ago, after previously using Hasselblad 503 and Canon. Similar to you, I was very happy with the Zeiss glass on the Hassey, but crave a faster work flow, wanting to get more spontaniety in my portraits and fashion work. Plus, the increasing film and processing cost in London, and it's competitive industry, means that i need every way to cut cost, and the 16 frames per roll that the 645 give makes a difference. The Mamiya's back can use both 120 or 220, so I save time changing film, and overall the 645 greatly speed up my shoots. <br>

It's auto focus is just OK (i suppose the AFD 2 and 3 will be better) compare with Canon, useable. But I do have some rolls that's suprisingly out of focus, I think that a big part is me needing more practise with the 'focus in the middle then recompose' trick. I hope it is. Otherwise there is either something wrong with the body or the glass. (Or may be the mamiya demand a faster shutter speed than Hassey?)<br>

Of the rolls that's perfectly sharp, it is very close to the result from the Hassey which I was using at the same aperture and speed as a control test. Just tiny tiny touch less sharp and less pleasing with the colour. <br>

I have just ordered a adapter to use the Hassey 150mm on the Mamiya, hope the zeiss glass will give me the best of both world (minus AF but has in-focus indication). <br>

The metering is excellent, 95% of the time is perfect, only in tricky light condition that it was a bit off, but as i shoot negs, the latitude can compensate that. <br>

All in all, i am 90% happy with the move I will say. If more practice make my use of focus-look better thus getting sharp picture constantly, I will probably truly retired the Hassey. <br>

Hope it helps a bit.</p>

 

[kevin_wong7]

<p>Rough scan of the control test, both using 80mm, 1/125 around f8 i think:<br>

First is Hasselblad 503cx and then Mamiya 645 AFD</p><div></div>

[kevin_wong7]

<p>and here the Mamiya's</p><div></div>

[mikeseb]

<p>Adam, I bought into the Contax system in late 2004; its discontinuance was announced in early 2006, with support promised for ten years. So that leaves you a 5-7 year support horizon, which is an eternity with any camera system these days. The bodies are well made and reliable, and can be had far more cheaply now than when I bought mine, so I'd advise picking up a spare body as a backup if you are using it for mission-critical stuff and can't afford any downtime.<br>

<br /> The lenses are good to fantastic, and the camera's ergonomics are the best of any I've used. The battery grip is highly recommended, both for its even better handling than the camera alone, and because it allows you to use cheap and available AA batteries. I use both NiMH AA's and the rechargeable 2CR3 which is its standard battery, and that's worked out well.<br /> <br /> The lenses are for the most part readily available; your biggest problem will be sourcing some of the accessories. The waist level finder (which is of limited use, IMO, unless you're shooting landscape orientation exclusively) is rare and pricey, and metal lens hoods are not cheap (easy to substitute B+H metal or rubber hoods, or a Cokin or Lee bellows hood.</p>

<p>I love my Contax system and will keep it indefinitely. That said, I shoot a variety of formats and to defray the cost of some other equipment, I will be selling one of my bodies with the prism finder, 80mm lens, battery grip, and film back soon if a local friend changes his mind about his recent interest. I also have a Kodak ProBack for this camera that I will also probably sell if he passes. If you're interested, send me an email and I'll forward details.</p>

[bill_dewberry]

<p>Kevin, if I were choosing based on the two scans you posted, I'd say the mamiya is a dog.</p>

[a._robert]

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<p>Bill, you nailed it perfectly. I think I want the Contax but the Mamiya is the more sensible choice. </p>

<p>Kevin, that's the same reason I'm looking for a 645: more spontaneous shots and more shots per roll without going to 35mm. 32 per roll of 220 isn't bad. I do think that the AF is supposed to have been upgraded in the newer models but it's nowhere near Canon digital speed. But like I said, I know that and I'm ok with that. When you meter, what mode were you on? AV, TV, manual? Does yours have data imprinting? Thanks for the examples. They are always helpful. But I will agree with Bill that the Hassy, at least in this example, looks a lot better than the Mamiya. Were they shot under the exact same conditions? I can obviously tell that it's the same shoot, but was the lighting the exact same on both? Was it the exact same film? You are right that the Mamiya's color was a bit off. That's why I wonder if the film was the same.</p>

<p>Michael, that's basically what I've heard from everyone about the Contax. Everyone that has used one, loves it. And I'm glad to hear about the battery consumption. How many rolls of 220 would you say that you get per batch of batteries. I admit that I would probably use the prism more than the wlf, but I'm used to it with the other MF systems that I use. I'll let you know about your system for sale; I've got a couple cameras and lenses for sale on eBay and if they sell, then I can start making some purchases.</p>

<p>Is there anyone out there who has used <i>both</i> of the afore-mentioned systems and has a preference? And can anyone post a scan of what the full negative looks like with a data imprint? Without previously using it, it seems like it would speed things up for me not having to write down all of my exposures. Just curious. Thanks.</p>

 

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[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>It would be much more meaningful to compare identical images that were made with a high-quality film scanner. And to compare unlabeled images to eliminate bias.</p>

[randall_pukalo]

<p>The Contax 645 is a beautiful rig! I have one, but I like my Contax N1 (35mm) better. At any rate, I recommend you get one. Thats what you really want. I wouldnt worry about service - you can always buy another used body. $1500 now gets you a complete set up with metered prism finder, body, 120/220 film back, and 80mm Zeiss lens, all in excellent condition. A repacement body is only 400-500. But they are pretty solidly built, I doubt you will have issues.<br>

As for autofocus, forget the older posts, it is fast. After reading the old posts, I expected a real dog in this respect. I was shocked the first time I used it, how quickly and accurately it snapped into focus. For any static, or posing subjects, it is perfect. Its weakness is moving targets, like kids playing, sports, etc. There it breaks down.<br>

Also worth mentioning is the fact that the glass is expensive. Expect to pay $1000 mininum for any of the lenses. There are no $400-$500 bargains here like with Pentax 67 and Mamiya manual focus. But, your getting Zeiss glass, and its resale value has held up well, and should so continue, as there are digital backs for the Contax now.<br>

As for battery usage, I got the grip and use NiMH rechargeable AA batteries now. The grip runs around 400 used, but it adds to what is already a very ergonomic camera, in addition to helping with battery usage. I would also say that if you are using this for catalog shots etc., battery usage shouldnt be that bad. Your not continously focusing/tracking a moving subject - I assume 1 focus per shot. <br>

Two other options are 1) buy a rechargeable Lithium 2CR5 and charger , they are available now. 2) Microcenter computer stores carry their store brand 2CR5's for the great price of 3.99 each (compared to 10-12 for Duracell/Energizer). They seem to be the equal of the main brands. I think BH Photo also has them cheap.<br>

Final comment - Focus - recompose aka Focus Lock is no problem with the Contax. Just make sure you are in Single Focus (not Continuous Focus) mode. Focus will lock in, then recompose and shoot.</p>

[a._robert]

<p>Randall, thanks for the words of advice. Luckily for me, I just sold 2 cameras and am only about $2-300 away from being able to afford a used Contax "kit". I think that I'm sold on them and I know that if I get a Mamiya I'll always think of it as the one that got away. I'm sure that I'm going to love it, and on the rare case that I don't, I can just turn around and sell it again. I'm glad to hear about the battery life and the focus lock. That really helped me make my decision. Probably only another week or so until I make the purchase. I'll post results as soon as I do.</p>

[colin_elliott]

<p>Adam<br>

Michael's first sentence of his last paragraph, sums it up for me too.</p>

<p>I've had mine since it's birth at Photokina. (1998).</p>

[a._robert]

<p>Just to update for anyone in the future, I bought the Contax and it has quickly become my favourite camera... And I have a lot. No regrets what so ever. With the grip, battery issues don't exist.</p>

[heather_bowes1]

<p>this was a great thread to read, thank you. I am currently selling my D3 and getting either the Mamiya or Contax, heart is in the contax, head is in the Mamiya. :-)</p>