Canon 580EX II Speedlite on Manual

[papasan]

<p>I just got a Canon 580EX II speedlite and i am trying to use it as a master to fire a slave 430EX. I want to use it in Manual mode not ETTL. I was able to get the slave to fire on remote (infrared) and (i think) to control the power on the slave by assigning it to the group C and adjusting the power 1/2 1/4 etc to the group, but i was not able to control the master's power, nor to even stop it from firing (using it as a controler only). I read the manual forward and backward but i can't make heads or tail from it. Am i doing something wrong? the manual does say that you can turn off the flash on the 580EX to use it as a controler only but even if i follow the steps in the manual it doesn't happen the flash still fires. Oh and the flash is mounted on my 30D Canon hotshoe. </p>

[bob_osullivan]

<p>The 580 nonly works in ETTL mode when it's Master. M mode shuts off master.</p>

<p>As for Master not firing and only controlling the slave, you can do that. The manual is wrong. I figured this out by trial and error. Keep working those buttons and you'll figure it out too.</p>

<p>You might also want to search B&H for a tutorial video by "Blue Crane Digital". I found it very helpful when I first got that flash, but I can't remember the tittle of it.</p>

[cabbiinc]

<p>I do not have a Canon wireless setup but I do a lot of reading. http://www.flickr.com/groups/canonwireless/discuss/72157605120081582/72157616815436310/</p>

<p><em>"The second mode is Manual Wireless. (‘M’ on the ‘master’ flashgun screen, ETTL on slave screens) An abbreviated version of the ‘pre-flash’ sent from the master, is used to send power level by group (A : B : C) instructions and then to sync the whole master slave setup for the ‘taking’ flash. With a 5xxEx unit as master all three slave groups can have their power output set manually – this is done remotely from the master. (With a 580Ex (either) as master, the increments are 1/3rd of a stop.) (With an ST-E2 power has to be dialled in to each slave individually on the slave itself, in which case the M on the slave screens remains blinking.) The camera’s flash meter is not active and FEL is disabled. An external handheld (?incident) flash-meter can be useful and the abbreviated pre-flash does not usually defeat an external meter."</em></p>

<p>If this is bogus please say so.</p>

<p>Dan</p>

[NK Guy]

<p>When you say the "the flash still fires," do you mean that the 580EX II is actually illuminating the scene? Remember that the control signals from the master unit to the slaves are actually visible light in the case of all Canon Speedlites except for the ST-E2. The ST-E2 is the only one which uses invisible infrared. So are you seeing the control pulses fire from the flash? Or are you looking at a photo and seeing that the master is actually lighting the scene?</p>

[papasan]

<p>"do you mean that the 580EX II is actually illuminating the scene? "<br>

I am not sure whether it's a pre-flash or full flash. It certainly doesn't seem like a "lesser" flash and it appears simultaneous with the slave firing but of course if we are dealing with micro seconds i cannot tell. On the test shots i took last night, i noticed that there was specular light on the forehead of the subject and that could only come from the master (from the angle on camera axis)<br>

I guess i had assumed that if the master was "off" it meant that the only "communication" between the master and the slave was infraread since i'm in manual mode and therfore there shouldn't be any need for actual pre-flash to evaluate the light need.<br>

I have to confess that i'm an engineer and i cannot understand the manual it may as well be written in chinese...</p>

[NK Guy]

<p>It's easy to test in dark or near dark conditions. You can't tell a preflash from a flash under normal conditions. Though if you've got a slow shutter and second curtain sync turned on then it'll be easy to tell.<br>

Note that infrared is NOT involved in this process ever given a 580EX II. And a preflash is always needed in wireless mode - it's a preflash series which sends the instructions to the slaves.</p>

[cabbiinc]

<p><em>"Note that infrared is NOT involved in this process ever given a 580EX II"</em><br>

I'll quit saying that it is then. Is there IR involved with other master units?</p>

[NK Guy]

<p>The only Canon Speedlite which transmits infrared is the ST-E2. This is the device which doesn't have a white-light producing flash tube. (technically it just has an ordinary flash tube with a plastic filter over the top which blocks almost all visible light)<br>

All 500 series wireless-capable units, and the two EX series macro units, use visible light to control remotes.</p>

[papasan]

<p>Thanks for the input every one, i was able to get the slave to work on manual (placing the slave in group C) through the 580EX acting as the master (also set on manual), but i still cannot stop the master from firing. I did some experiments and it's pretty obvious that the master still fires to light the subject (it's not a preflash). Does any one know how to stop the master from firing (when both the master and the slave are set to manual). So far my solution has been to set the master (through group A) on 1/128 power so it's much less than the slave but there is still some light reaching the subject, which i'm trying to avoid ( I guess i can gobo it but there should be a way to just turn off the master). Thanks again for your input every one. michel</p>

[cabbiinc]

<p>Michel, the manual for the 580EX says that to set the zoom to off press the Zoom button until the display blinks, then turn the wheel until it displays off, then press OK. The lightning bolt (flash icon) will blink.</p>

<p>I don't have the manual for the 580EXII.</p>

[papasan]

<p>Dan,<br>

the manual for the 580EX II says basically the same but when i try that the display does not show the icon that it's supposed to show and the flash still fires. Could it be that the flash is defective? </p>

[les]

<p>My experience with Canon flashes is that they are full of (sometimes useful) gimmics, which unnecessarily complicates the operation. I basically use my Canon flashes in two modes: one is full E-TTL, with 580EX or ST-E2 controlling the slaves. The second mode is full manual on all flashes, with ST-E2 to trigger them and a lightmeter to figure out the exposure.<br>

I am sure there are many clever things which can be done with combinations of master/slave/E-TTL/manual/flash on/flash off/etc. settings - but I could not be bothered to remember what this automated system does, depending on settings of each flash.<br>

My advice is to do the same: keep it simple - in other words either E-TTl with all its quirks, or full manual where you control everything.<br>

Photography is about photographing, not pushing X-number of buttons in a precise (and hard to remember) order to (hopefully) achieve what you want.</p>

<p> </p>

[papasan]

<p>Thanks Leszek i agree with your philosophy I'm really more interested in operating the two flashes in manual mode but i dont have a ST-E2 to control them. I was hoping to use the 580 as a master to trigger the 430 as slave which i was able to do but i cannot stop the 580 from firing in manual mode. I will look into getting a couple of pocket wizards to control the two flashes independently. Thanks for your input</p>

[les]

<p>When master is in M mode, playing with the ZOOM button, followed by the rotation of the control dial, followed by pressing the button in the centre of the dial - allows you to switch the master flash OFF. In fact - it is still producing some flash - but it is very weak: in Manual mode, when pressing the TEST button, the flash discharges with the power set on the flash. I tried with settings 1/1 and 1/128, both with the flash head switched to ON and OFF: with the flash head ON - the 1/1 setting produced heaps more light (checked with lightmeter) than 1/128 setting. With the flash head OFF, both 1/1 and 1/128 settings produced only very little light from the master.</p>

<p>Someone who knows all the quirks of the Canon flash system may give a better explanation - I just wrote my observations.</p>

[papasan]

<p>Thanks Leszek i will try this. (one does wonder how the geniuses at Canon come up with such complicated sequences that no one can remember!!!!)</p>

[les]

<p>It is not that bad if you use the flash frequently: I got to the point where I don't need to have look at the manual too much (although I am far from knowing what is possible with all the combinations of button pressing).</p>

[papasan]

<p>Thanks again Leszek, it worked. I had to press the zoom button twice to get to the on/off setting. Now all i have to do is remember that sequence. Cheers </p>