Zeiss 18mm for Canon DSLRs - focusing with tiny viewfinder

[bill_fouche]

<p>I am interested in this new lens, which is manual focus only. But I have a Canon 400D, which has a tiny viewfinder, making accurate MF quite difficult (even with Katz eye modification, etc.). But the optics and light weight of this lens are almost irresistible to me. Two questions: (i) for travel photography in cities, do you think I can expect good results by setting aperture at, say 8.0, and choosing some particular manual focus distance on the lens barrel? (ii) If so, what settings do you recommend. (If the answer to this question is too variable for a good answer, I'd appreciate info on how to choose the right settings without "seeing" the results in the viewfinder? Thanks.</p>

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[g dan mitchell]

<p>Interesting question.</p>

<p>I used to shoot with a cropped sensor camera with the small viewfinder, and it is hard for me to imagine trying to manually focus in the viewfinder on a regular basis. I think your idea of basically shooting it like an old school manual focus rangefinder camera (w/o the rangefinder) has some merit, but you'll be shooting in a style that few have used in the past few decades. (I last shot this way when I was in high school, IIRC.)</p>

<p>Going by that somewhat ancient experience, the idea would be to not go larger than f/8 or so an to practice estimating camera to subject distances and setting them rather quickly on the camera. You will generally not get reliably perfect focus, but it could well be good enough for smallish print sizes with an occasional lucky shot where focus is more or less right on.</p>

<p>One complexity is the fact that you probably do not want to shoot smaller than f/8 on the cropped sensor body - there could be exceptions, but as a general practice you'd have to be a bit concerned about giving up some IQ to diffraction blur at smaller apertures. On the other hand, if you go into this having decided that you will not print larger than perhaps letter size this issue becomes somewhat moot.</p>

<p>Do consider the fact that the virtues of this lens are probably not really there for someone shooting in this style, though. I think that this lens is probably most useful to, for example, someone shooting landscapes or similar on a full frame camera, especially where live view or a different focusing screen make manual focus a bit more possible, and where a slower style of shooting makes the necessary manual fiddling a bit more tolerable. In the end, you are not likely to see the IQ advantages that a lens like this might provide if you have to guesstimate focus and set it manually.</p>

<p>One wonders if you might be better off with a plain old AF zoom...</p>

<p>Dan</p>

[edrodgers]

<p>Yes, with an 18mm lens you may set the lens at the hyperfocal distance of about 7 feet for that sensor. Anything more than 3.5 feet away should be sharp. (at f/8, that is...)</p>

[joshroot]

<p>Go search the Leica forum for threads on the Voigtlander 15mm and 21mm scale focused lenses (or on the Bessa L which has no viewfinder). You shouldn't have any trouble getting accurate focus in my opinion. But your standards may be different than mine.</p>

[jc_stark_arts]

<p>I can see where this lens is semi-exciting for FF folks but I really don't get the need for it on a crop. From what I've seen of the lens on Nikon mount as well as read from others it's really not that much better than the Canon 16-35 or the Nikon 17-35 and is if anything worse than the Nikon 14-24. Add in the fact that it won't AF which on a small sensor (as you've mentioned) is a pain in the heiney and I can't see any good reason to buy this lens....<br>

The tokina 11-16 or canon 10-22 shooting raw would both be better choices in my opinion for the type of shooting you are mentioning....</p>

[mwtphoto]

<p>As far as I know, the new Zeiss lenses for EF mount have the electrical contact necessary for focus confirmation to work i.e. the green dot or an audible beep. I use older Zeiss glass with an AF confirm adapter and have been very satisfied with the focus results. The older lenses require stop down metering where as the new Zeiss EF mount stops down automatically. If you like the look of Zeiss I would say go for it.</p>

[evphotography]

<p>Canon T1i XSi. I'm little surprised you are jumping into that expensive of lens for a 400D body, but if you are going to be using MF lenses you might want to consider upgrading your body to at least the XSi or new T1i models. They both have live view with 3" LCD's and the T1i has the newest high resolution screen. It is worth the upgrade just for that feature alone. Focusing with live view on 10x is so easy, even with very wide angle lenses. They are a dream for MF lenses and TS lenses. Also you can see your DOF much better with the DOF preview. If you hand hold everything then and don't use a tripod, then it probably won't be of much use. I'm sure it will be a great lens, let us know if you get one.</p>

[g dan mitchell]

<p>Despite my general sense that combining this manual focus lens with a crop body may not be the best way to go (I'd think about a Canon EFS zoom or an EF prime instead), I can understand the interest in combining a small prime with the small body of a X00D camera. It could be a great street photography setup, for example.</p>

<p>I'm still not so excited about the notion of using a MF (even with viewfinder confirmation) lens on a crop sensor body though since I think that the potential IQ improvements (and that would be the reason for getting Zeiss, right?) will not be there in hand held, manually focused, cropped sensor shot.</p>

<p>Dan</p>

[bueh]

<p>Manual focusing is no joy on crop-factor cameras. The 400D/Rebels feature a pentamirror which is even less suited for MF than the APS-C cameras with a prism. I would hesitate to spend so much money on a lens that has serious limitations for practical use.</p>

<p>However, if you have not a big investment in Canon gear and are open to change systems, take a good look at the Pentax system. They offer several dedicated crop-factor prime lenses. At the wide end there is the DA 14mm f/2.8 and the new DA 15mm f/4 Limited -- both will autofocus AND have the advantage of the excellent built-in image stabilization of the Pentax bodies. For the price of the Zeiss lens you can probably find a used camera (e.g., K10D) and a super-wide lens.</p>

[kasperhettinga]

<p>I'm using my 20D with Haoda Fu's focussing screen and have no problem using MF. Prefer to do MF-work using my old-style film body, as this has a much bigger&brighter VF, but on my 20D it is quite well doable.</p>

[digitmstr]

<p>Given the crop factor and the focal length (which is extremely short) I don't think you'll have too much trouble getting stuff in focus using the typical hyperfocal method (which is my favorite for on-the-fly street photography anyway).</p>

 

[yakim_peled1]

<p dir="ltr">I have 40D, EF-S screen and f/2.8 lenses. I sometime MF in macro and really don't like this. If I were to buy a wide MF lens I'd get the Oly 21/2. It also has great IQ and light weight but is much faster. </p>

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<p dir="ltr">Happy shooting,</p>

<p dir="ltr">Yakim.</p>

[g dan mitchell]

<p>The 18mm FL is not all <em>that</em> short on crop - it is roughly equivalent to shooting at 28mm on FF. Wide, yes. Ultrawide, no.</p>

<p>Dan</p>

[digitmstr]

<p>But the DOF increases so, it's a moot point. The focal lenght is the same, the FOV is different which means...you'll have to step back to get as much in the frame as you would on a FF camera. Thus, the more you step back the more your DOF will increase. That was the meaning of my post, about the focal lenght, NOT the FOV.</p>

[User_1684234]

<p>Hi, Bill - you may also want to try the Nikon DK-21M eyepiece with your 400D. It increases the viewfinder magnification by about 1.2x, making manual focusing somewhat easier. $25 at B&H et al:<br>

<a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407315-REG/Nikon_25339_DK_21M_Magnifying_Eyepiece.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/407315-REG/Nikon_25339_DK_21M_Magnifying_Eyepiece.html</a></p>

 

[kevin_cheng]

<p>I have tried both split prism screens as well as AF Confirm adapters and the adapters have been much easier to use. If you're worried about adapters getting the focus right, there are even ones which you can calibrate the focus confirm in camera.</p>

[bill_fouche]

<p>There is a wealth of helpful information here. Thanks for the careful responses. For what it's worth, Bueh's comment - pointing out that, for the price of the Zeiss, I should consider looking into Pentax (or other) - has taken me by surprise. It's an excellent point. I'm going to look into that, among other things. Thanks again to all.</p>

[g dan mitchell]

<p>Does everyone recall that the OP asked about this in the context of " for travel photography in cities?"</p>

<p>Quite a few of the responses here seem appropriate for someone doing rather different sorts of photography - e.g. perhaps landscape, architectural, or portrait (but not with this lens!) - rather than what one usually thinks of as "travel photography."</p>

<p>Dan</p>

[bueh]

<p>Glad to be of assistance. I think the Pentax option makes sense. If you can, check it the K10D/K20D or rent it for a couple of days with one or two lenses of your liking, it really is an eye-opening experience what built-in vibration reduction (aka "IS") is capable of -- especially for us prime lens shooters. And if you still want that Zeiss glass, keep in mind that it's also available for Pentax.</p>

<p>I used a Nikon-mount Tokina 17mm lens a while when I started with my Canon 20D, and even with a lens this wide manual focusing needed to be done carefully unless you stop down significantly. In the end, I wanted lenses with modern features for my digital camera, because lens technology is more than just sharpness and price...</p>

[test11664875106]

<p>Bill,</p>

<p>are you sure that intended use justifies purchase of this rather expensive glas? True that it should produce sharp image when carefully focused. But given that you're not nailing it down and max apperture of f/3.5, wouldn't for your purpose ordinary kit lens (18-55) produce just about the same result for less than half percent of the money?</p>