Crash course please/thank you.

[matthew_clarkson]

<p>Hi I am an amateur photographer and a professional electronics developer. I've been thinking for a while about designing myself a digital back as a side project. My problem is that I am stuck on getting a used camera. I guess, coming from a digital background I am used to taking a picture and instantly being able to see the outcome, now I am paranoid that I'll pick a camera and not know it doesn't work until getting the film developed.<br>

My main question is if you were going to be buying a used camera what would you do to test it before buying?<br>

Also in the mean time I'd like to learn all I can about film, so any pointers would be appreciated.<br>

Thank you.</p>

[kelly_hughes]

<p>Is it just for the fun of designing it, or did you hope to sell a few? If you wanted to sell them, I'd say to pick a family that doesn't already have digital backs available for it, because the demand would be higher and competition non-existent. Pentax 645 comes to mind, but don't know about other brands.</p>

<p>-Kelly</p>

[bms]

<p>Given that you'd probably spend quite a nice sum on the development of a digital back, I'd say you can spent $300 or so on a body/lens combo for a use MF cemare from a reputable seller on fleebay and chances are it will work just fine. I bought a used Mamiya RZ67... you can also check out KEH and I think they'd take it back if it does not work. Short of seeing a camera that just does not work mechanically, shooting film (fuji/polaroid would be an option to get a quick answer) seems liek the ultimate, and best, test.</p>

[christopher_graham1]

<p>If I were looking for a film camera the main thing I would test is the shutter speed. Test one would be just to make sure the shutter opens. You can test that by looking down the lens and pushing the shutter button. It is kind of hard to see the faster ones but give it a shot and then do the slower ones. Next thing is listen to the shutter. Do the times sound about right? It is hard to be really accurate with that without some testing equipment but if they sound about right then at least it is close and you can work with it. Again the faster they are the harder that is to test. Now if you have quick reflexes you can use a stop watch. I have been able to test half second and sometimes up to a quarter with this. I basically push the stop watch as I push the shutter and then push the stop when I hear it close. Obviously there is some severe human error elements to this method so you just look at the number and if it isn't just ridiculously off then it is probably good. Electronic shutters are a bit less reliable than mechanical shutters so keep that in mind. I have a camera from 1933 that has had limited servicing and actually spent a good bit of time on a shelf and the shutter is perfect even at slow speeds where it can be the most finicky. Finally check and make sure B works. Sometimes that doesn't work right and you really want that for somethings. The automatic setings will require film to test. Best if you can return it after shooting a roll or two. Most of the mechanical shutter cameras especially are definitely still serviceable at a lot of local shops so check into that definitely. </p>

<p>Now for films. You want to try as many as you can get your hands on. There aren't any really bad films really just films whose characteristics aren't what you are looking for, except for maybe Kodak Gold 800 I hate that film but I guess it is just me. Personally I am a big fan of Fuji for color print and black and white and a fan of Kodak Slide films. Fuji also makes some really awesome slide film I just haven't used any of it. Timing and finances haven't really all come together for me to do that yet but I have happened across expired or nearly expired Kodak films that I have grabbed up and loved. Kodak just came out with Ektar 100 which is an interesting Color print film as well. </p>

<p>Now with latitude every emulsion is different. You can get different results from Neopan 1600 than Neopan 400 and so on. Essentially if it has the same type name they try to keep it along similar characteristics but just because you like one speed of a certain type of film doesn't mean you will like the rest in that line. Print film has the widest lattitude traditionally so if you aren't certain about a camera go with print film (negative process). Slide films are roughly equivalent to shooting digital Raw except you don't get the ability to tweak whitebalance in post as easily or really at all in projection. Color print film is probably the most forgiving medium you can work in. You have a lot of room to screw stuff up and it can be easily fixed along the way. Slide film is a bit less forgiving but more so than shooting digital jpg with the exception of white balance and all that. </p>

<p>Best advice is to try them all. Then you should get a better feel for what you like and what you don't and which qualities will be best for certain types of shoots.</p>

[bueh]

<p>The most important things -- shutter accuracy and focus alignments -- can not be checked "on-the-fly" and best probably only with (slide) film in actual use. If the film transport and aperture calibration is working also needs film.</p>

<p>The one thing to do is check the lens for defects (fungus!, scratches, separation).</p>

[sfcole]

<p>I'd also ask to load it with slide film, and step outside and take some photos at a combination of shutter speeds.<br>

Take a photo of something close to middle gray and meter off it if you know how. All the frames should have the same exposure, as long as you also set the f/stop to compensate. I'd make sure it was a bright sunny day so that an light leaks were obvious. You may wish to pick a nearby brick wall to test the focus.</p>

[JAPster]

<p>When I buy a used 35 mm camera, here are the things I usually check:<br>

1) Does it have a Battery inside? (Open the cover and check).<br>

2) Does the Battery work? (Will camera power On? Do the LCD Data panels, Viewfinder indicators, and Light meter system function as expected?).<br>

3) Is there any leakage and/or corrosion in the Battery compartment? In no, thats great. Bad corrosion in the battery compartment is a bad sign. The corrosion may have creeped inside the camera and damaged the circuitry. A situation like that will be hard to clean up. In that case, better to pass on that camera and keep looking. Slight amounts of corrosion can be cleaned up.<br>

4) Is the battery compartment cover missing? Hard to run the camera w/o a battery compartment cover.<br>

5) Inspect the camera exterior. Do you see any evidence of hard falls, knocks, or bangs? Any cracks in the body or frame? Minor scratches are ordinary and to be expected, but there should be no stuctural damage visible to the body frame or lens.<br>

6) Inspect the lens. Inspect the front of the lens. Is it clean or dirty? Are there any scratches? Is there a filter in place to protect the lens? Can you get the filter off? Does the multicoating look intact? And maybe most importantly, is there any sign of the dreaded Lens Fungus? Lens fungus can grow on both external and internal lens surfaces. It is possible to clean it off an external surface (front or back), but it takes a highly skilled lens technician to dissassemble a multi-group lens to clean it and put it back together. The fungus looks like a network of tiny spider webs tracing across the surface of the glass, and in some places the fungus fibers converge to form a visible (tiny) splotch or blemish on the glass. An dirty but unscratched lens can be cleaned using a rubber blower, softhair brush, and lens cleaning papers and lens cleaning fluid. But if the lens has a fungus, and it looks internal, you had better pass on it.<br>

7) If its an old manual film SLR, try cocking the Film Rewind and see how that goes. Try shooting a test picture with the camera empty. If the camera is turned on, (unlocked), and the shutter wont depress and take a picture, thats a bad sign. Some of the electronic SLRs wont turn on and release the shutter w/o a good battery. So you may have to install a new battery of the correct type to test the On/Off function, Light Meter, and basic controls.<br>

8) Next, pop the back open, and give it a brief inspection? Does the interior look clean and well cared for? That's a good indicator? Do the shutter blades or curtains look OK? No damage? No tears? No dirt? No holes? That's good. A damaged shutter, of course, means big trouble for your picture unless you can get it repaired. You can easily clean out a slight amount of dust and fibers using a rubber blower and softhair brush. Just be extremely careful not to damage the shutter curtains or blades. They will be vulnerable and exposed. Dont touch them with your fingers or anything else. They are easily damaged if you are not careful.<br>

9) Next, inspect the light seals on the inside of the camera back, and down in the grooves that seat the camera back when its closed. Its not uncommon for an old used camera to show worn-out light seals that result in light leakage that gets in and fogs the film. Some people will replace the old light seals with new material like felt or velvet. If the old light seals are literally crumbling and falling apart, thats the sign they will need a makeover.<br>

10) Check the front edge of the lens, where you would normally screw in a lens filter. Is there any deformity that would keep you from being able to screw in a filter? The lens might still be optically OK, but something like that would hinder you from using various types of filters.<br>

11) Other than ordinary wear and tear and ordinary dirt (that a good cleaning would remove), is t here anything else evident during your inspection that would indicate a problem?<br>

12) Assuming the camera still has a good battery in it, try turning the Camera on, focusing on something nearby, and see if AF works. See if the various modes work. See if the Light Meter works.<br>

13) With the camera turned ON, look through the View Finder, and see how clean or dirty the view-finder focusing screen is. If its a Manual Focus lens and viewfinder, see what type of focusing screen it has. See if you like using it, and find it comfortable.<br>

14) Does it have a lens cap to keep the lens clean and protected?<br>

15) Does it have an adequate neck strap to support the camera around your neck?<br>

After looking at all these things, you should now be able factor all these things into the buying decision, and have a reasonable idea of any items you still need to get. Like one or two new batteries. Maybe a UV filter to protect the lens. Maybe a new lens cap to protect the filter.<br>

Unfortunately, sometimes you can do all this and still end up buying a lemon, especially if there's no battery in it. Without a good battery, you really can't test or check the internal electronics, and it could look really good in all other respects and still be a lemon, in need of serious (and expensive) repairs. This has happened to me twice, when buying an old used camera from a thrift store.<br>

If the camera is missing the Owner's Manual, you can usually find on out on the Web, assuming the camera is a name-brand. Esoteric cameras will be harder to find the manual for. I usually look first on the Mike Butkus Camera Manual site. Sometimes, if the same type camera is being sold on Amazon, their product description page will have a link to Owners Manual in PDF form.<br>

I have purchase a number of 35mm film cameras from thrift stores using this approach.<br>

Alternatively, you could swing by your local Wolf Camera and see if they have any 35mm Film Bodies on clearance sale. These will be substantially marked down from the MSRP, and will be brand new and have all the accessories. Of course, you will still need to get a lens.<br>

Good luck!</p>

<p>AP</p>

 

[matthew_clarkson]

<p>Thanks alot.<br>

That's some great info there and I feel slightly less paranoid. :) Now I just have to read a whole bunch more.<br>

This would be for fun rather than business. It's amazing what some people enjoy doing eh?</p>

 

[james_falconer]

<p>In a business sense I would recommend developing it for a camera that already DOES have digital options. I'm assuming you'll try to sell it for a reasonable cost, correct? The digital backs that exist are all unreasonably expensive, and your product would make sense as a much cheaper alternative for people that cannot afford one. Trust me, everyone that owns a camera with a digital back alternative wants one.</p>

<p>I'd also recommend developing it for cameras with removeable/replaceable backs, such as the Rolleiflex 600x series and the Hassy beacuse of their inherent modularity.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>James</p>

[robert lee]

<blockquote>

<p>My main question is if you were going to be buying a used camera what would you do to test it before buying?</p>

</blockquote>

<ol>

<li>Buy from KEH.com. Select from complete camera kits - it's the least hassle. Returns are fairly painless too if necessary.</li>

<li>Order a couple rolls of Fuji Astia slide film from B&H, Freestyle, or Adorama. With your DSLR, shoot a few mild contrast scenes. Transfer the exposure settings to the film camera and shoot the same. Try to keep the composition about the same. The film that you get back from the lab should look pretty close to the DSLR reference.</li>

</ol>

<p>As for cameras, I'd start by looking at all mechanical models. Proprietary, undocumented camera electrical interfaces should be the least of your worries. The Mamiya RB-67 Pro-S is a good place to start. A complete kit - camera body, 90mm (standard) lens, and film back should be less than $300.</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>Trust me, everyone that owns a camera with a digital back alternative wants one.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Not quite everyone.</p>