Vietnam Itinerary

[ed_tobin]

<p>Back in December I posed a question about traveling solo or with a tour. I got a lot of great information so thank you all and I have now done a lot of research and will be traveling solo. It would be very helpful if those that have traveled in Vietnam could comment on my itinerary as I do have a couple of questions. I have much more details to the itinerary but since my questions are mostly about modes of travel and travel time I am just giving you the overview. For each location I am assuming that I will do day trips to see the nearby sights.<br>

1. Is there much to see from Hue to Hanoi and would I be better spend my time flying of taking the train to Hanio?<br>

2. How much travel time should I plan for. Right now with the exception of Hue to Hanoi I was thinking one full day, starting early with some stops and finishing for diner and finding hotel<br>

3. What would you change on my itinerary if this were you traveling<br>

3. Still not sure what lenses to take. I really want pictures of the fishing villages, people working in the fields, some portraits of the people and children. It seems that most people took a lens up to 200mm and did not think it was enough to capture the rice fields so I am now thinking 35mm, 24-105/f4 and my 100-400/f4. I have wider and faster lens but I was not planning on taking them (16-35/f2.8 and 28-70f2.8 plus a 70mm - 200mm f/4. The 35mm is very small and fast so I thought this may be good for some quick snapshots. With this selection what would you take or leave behind<br>

<br /></p>

<p><b>Proposed High Level Itinerary</b><br>

Saigon for 4 nights<br>

Travel day to Dalat and overnight there<br>

Travel to Quy Nhnon and stay 3 nights in that area<br>

Travel to Hoi An<br>

Hoi An for 5 nights<br>

Travel to Hue<br>

Hue for 3 nights<br>

Travel to Hanio<br>

Hanio for 5 nights<br>

Fly to Laos<br>

Stay in Laos for 4 days going north to south maybe with flying or bus<br>

Fly to Cambodia <br>

Stay in Cambodia for 4 nights<br>

Take Mekong boat to Vietnam<br>

Explore Mekong area for 4 nights<br>

Travel to Saigon</p>

<p>Thanks in advance and I will be sure to share my experiences when I return. Right now I have my plane tickets and I arrive in Saigon on the 10th of May and depart on 21st of June</p>

<p> </p>

[Spearhead]

<p>4 nights in Saigon is too long. We started in Hanoi and had planned four or five nights in Saigon at the end. Every traveler we met said that was too much in Saigon. We eventually did three nights, and other than going out to to the Delta, even that was too long. Since you're hitting the Delta at the end, there isn't that much point in spending that time in Saigon. If I went back, I wouldn't even go there, but I would definitely return to Hanoi and Hue.</p>

[allenahale]

<p>Five nights in Hanoi, in my opinion and experience, is too long. I would recommend that you you take one day and one night, or two days and two nights to explore the Halong Bay region. Taking an overnight tour on the Bay is highly recommended. Halong Bay is about 3 hours north of Hanoi - even the road trip is interesting.</p>

[rachelle_m.]

<p>Well, I agree with both Jeff and Allen -- 5 nights in either Hanoi or Saigon is too long, but of the two I definitely found Hanoi more interesting. I think 2-3 nights in either place is enough. Similarly, Hoi An is a pretty small place -- is there a reason you want to spend five days there? We spent a full 3 days there and that was more than enough. That being said, I was really sick with food poisoning at the time so three days of watching MTV Asia and bad movies in languages I couldn't understand on the hotel TV really got to me. I also don't understand why you want to spend 25 days in Vietnam, and relegate 4 days each to all of Cambodia and Laos. I would maybe shave some time off the Vietnam trip and spend more time in those other countries. That being said, I'm not a big fan of spending one or two days in a place and moving on -- if your purpose is mostly photography then you may be satisfied with longer stays in the places on your list, provided you do day trips out of those places! If you're not booking hotels in advance, and I don't think you need to, then I would just wing it. It's hard to know how much you'll like a place until you get there. And weather, of course, will play into that. We spent two days in the Halong Bay region but it was cold and grey the whole time and very disappointing photographically. That region is highly overtouristed as well, so it's something to take into consideration.</p>

<p>I'm not sure there's much between Hanoi and Hue -- we ended up doing an overnight train (which saved on the travel day and hotel) for that trip and it was mostly okay. I seem to remember that that area is one of the poorest agriculturally-speaking so it may be the area to skip.</p>

<p>Finally, and this is just me, I really hate the idea of using superzooms on people without them being aware of it (having been on the non-camera end of that before). It wouldn't be hard to rent a bicycle or motorbike (which we did) and get out into the rice fields a lot closer to the people in question. I think you'd get a much more rewarding experience. I found the Vietnamese people to be extremely friendly and kind when I was a part of their world, and not the tourist one (by that I mean getting up early when they do, walking the streets and hanging out in the parks, going for bike rides, etc). YMMV.</p>

[ed_tobin]

<p>All very good input. So yes the purpose of the trip is photography and I never really enjoyed staying one or two nights in a place because sometimes I feel that I just need the light or weather to improve to capture what I think would be a great image. My thoughts was in Hoi An and Hanoi that I would do day trips to other areas and while I will have a itinerary I fully expect to be changing it based on if I am having fun or not feeling a connection with the area so I am not making any hotel reservations with the exception of Saigon.<br>

Based on Jeff and Allen's feedback I am now thinking of only two days at the start in Saigon and if I want more I either change my plans or add the time on the end of the trip.<br>

As for using a large lens on people I fully agree with the exception that I really do like to take pictures where the persons is not easily identified because they are blurred due to motion or a silhouette. I guess I view them more as an actor in my photograph. The first image in this album is typical of what I aspirer to take http://julien.mammouth.free.fr/vietnam/ninh_binh/album/index.html<br>

I think I will be taking the train from Hue to Hanoi based on feedback so far</p>

 

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>My thoughts was in Hoi An and Hanoi that I would do day trips to other areas</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This was my thought as well. In addition to being a wonderful city to just walk around endlessly, Hanoi is close to a lot of interesting places. A trip to Halong Bay isn't very far, and I wouldn't drag my stuff up there just to stay for a night. It's easy to be there by 8AM and back in Hanoi after dinner. There are numerous ethnic villages accessible on day trips. And the most unusual part of my trip was a visit to the underground power plant in Hoa Binh. I would say my entire trip was worth it for the experience, but you will need a very persistent local to work out the arrangements with the government and you won't be able to photograph. </p>

<p>This was from one of the ethnic villages, we had tea and homemade rice wine with a woman in a hut while her husband and son cleaned rats to eat for dinner:</p>

 

<p align="center"><img src="http://www.spirer.com/images/viet20.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="528" /><br>

<em>Children, North Vietnam, Copyright 2004 Jeff Spirer</em></p>

[ed_tobin]

<p>Great photograph Jeff and thanks for sharing your experiences. Any idea how long to plan for driving between locations?</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>It's been a few years, so traffic times may have changed. It took us about two hours to get to some fairly remote villages, with some hiking also. Hoa Binh should be around 90 minutes from Hanoi. You should make sure you have someone who can get you into the power plant, if you want to do that. Otherwise, Hoa Binh is mostly known for its giant statute of Ho Chi Minh. They cook rice inside bamboo there, very nice and fragrant. Halong Bay is a couple hours, although coming back the water buffalo were in the road and it went more slowly. </p>

[sue_medsger]

<p>Ed,<br>

I just returned from SE Asia about a month ago. In Vietnam I particularly enjoyed the Central Highlands. I was in Buon Me Thuot and surrounding area--not Dalat. Much less touristy. Also highly recommend Tam Coc. I spent three weeks total in Vietnam so I think your 25 days there is probably about right but you might want to allocate it a little differently.<br>

I would second the comments about so little time in Laos and Cambodia. If you are planning on staying in Cambodia four nights, I presume you will be spending three full days in Siem Reap. I personally would have liked to have spent a good week there. In early December when I was there, the light at the temple sites became very difficult after about 9AM. Distances between cities are far in Laos and traveling by bus it can take a full day to go from one to another. (I spent 10 days in each of those countries and it definitely was not enough in Laos.) You might want to consider only going to Vietnam and Cambodia on this trip and saving Laos for another trip.<br>

In terms of lenses, I had nothing longer than 200mm. This did present some challenges when photographing on the Tonle Sap, the Mekong and along rice fields. (I could definitely have used something longer in those situations.) Otherwise, it was sufficient.<br>

Sue</p>

[bob_buzza]

<p>We were in Vietnam/Cambodia last spring (I just found this forum and so could not chip in with a response to your initial questions; sorry). I had 3 lenses - an 18-55mm, a 24-105mm, and a 100-300mm. I used the 100-300 zoom rarely and I don't think I got a single shot with it that was worth printing. The shots of people were most rewarding for me. I had read before the trip that Vietnamese believe that taking a photo of a child brings the child good luck. You can't believe everything you read, but nothing I encountered contradicted that. I had numerous opportunities to shoot children close up, and the accompanying adult invariably appeared pleased. And shooting adults was not much different. I had no sense of being intrusive. The one exception to this was on Tonle Sap (Cambodia), which I presume you have read about.<br>

I concur with those suggesting you might find 4 days in Saigon a bit long. If it were me I would shave a couple days there and add it to Laos.<br>

If you have not already done so, I would also suggest doing a little reading about the Angkor sites, assuming that your 4 days in Cambodia will be in Siem Reap. I, unfortunately, did not do that until we got back home. If we went back now I could get much more out of it. Nonetheless, we were in Siem Reap 4 days and not until day 4 did I begin to feel temple overload (temperature of 114 degrees F. did not help).</p>

[diananguyen]

<p>Hi Ed,<br>

I had just got back from a 30 day trip in Vietnam 2 weeks ago. I was there from Jan 26, 2009 to Feb 24, 2009. I was there for the lunar new year celebration. I celebrated TET in Saigon. eVietnam is full of photo ops. Okay this is what I would do if I were you:<br>

Hanoi for 5 days is a long time...BUT..around Hanoi..there's lots of places you can go too. From Hanoi you can take an overnight train to Sapa..the scenery in Sapa is just absolutely AMAZING. Since your primary purpose is for photography..You definitely should not miss Sapa especially since you have time (overnight 8 hr train ride to Lao Cai, from Lao Cai to Sapa-1 hr ride). You can visit ethnic villages, its really neat. I would stay in Sapa for 1 or 2 nights. Then take the train back to Hanoi. From Hanoi you also can take a 3 hr ride to Ninh Binh..there's Tam Coc Cave.. this area is called "Halong of Land" because its got those limestone karsts like Halong Bay, but its on land..& you can take a boat ride & go thru this area & see the people working on the rice field. so once your done..you go back to Hanoi. Then I would go to Halong Bay (I believe its a3 hr drive also from Hanoi) I would spend one night on a junk(overnight boat). <br>

Hoi An is a charming little town..It is one of the more relaxing cities in my opinion, you don't get bombarded with vendors. Hoi An is very touristy though..It's got really nice clean beaches..Hoi An..3 to 5 nights is good..I think 3 nights is sufficient..If you do stay for 5 nights. You should visit My Son & I believe the Cham ruins is near there (i didn't get a chance to go there) <br>

Hue-I think 3 nights is good. Lots of history there. lots of temples & citadels.<br>

It is a good idea to not book anything in advance..so you can see the hotel first to see if its to your liking. The star ratings system in Vietnam is not very reliable. In general..you deduct one star. The only exception to my rule of thumb is some of the 5 star hotels. I had stayed at the Park Hyatt Saigon & it was truly a 5 star experience. Vietnam airlines..we booked the flights online..$45 USD/one way trip..most domestic flights takes about 45 min..I think from HCMC to Hanoi about 3 hr flight. I think its worth it to fly if you could..the roads in vietnam is not that great..& people drive crazy..they don' t follow traffic regulations & its not enforced either. well, I hope this helps.</p>

<p>Diana</p>

[kenneth_englade]

<p>Hi Ed<br>

Came late to this discussion but maybe not too late. I was first in Indochina in '72-73 and again in '75 as a correspondent with UPI. Absolutely fascinating place. We had a reunion in Saigon in 2005, following which a group of photographers took off for Hanoi by land. You might take a peek at his site an dig around some to see the reports: http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0506/revisitvietnam.html<br>

One place i never got to and I really wish I would have is Dien Bien Phu , the site of the battle that ended France's attempt to re-colonize Vietnam after WW II. I think the photo opportunities would be outstanding. I seriously doubt that it is much visited by tourists. It's near Hanoi. Personally, I find Saigon far more interesting than Hanoi but I may be prejudiced because I never got to Hanoi until after the war. You might want to consider photographing some of the veterans cemeteries that have sprung up. The current regime has a policy of making them as attractive as possible, at least for thsoe who fought and died for the north. Cemeteries for the southerners, on the other hand, have been plowed under.<br>

Rather than stumbling around more or less hit or miss if you can afford it I'd think about hiring a driver and a car, one who speaks passable English and who knows the tricks of evading the bureuacracy, which can be quite oppressive. I can't recommend anyone off the top, but if you're interested I can ask around among those still active in the area. <br>

Ken</p>

[bob_buzza]

<p>Ed,<br>

I second Kenneth's suggestion about a local guide. You might consider doing this in some locations rather than for the whole trip; I know that being completely on one's own often leads to memorable experiences, so I would not presume to dissuade you from doing that some of the time. We had a guide and driver for most of our time in Vietnam -- 3 altogether, one pair in Hanoi, another in Hue/Hoi An and a third in the Mekong Delta/Saigon. They were all arranged through Indo China Services, an outfit in Bangkok. I questioned the need for 2 people - a guide plus a driver - before we went, but once we got there we were grateful that our drivers had nothing more to do than focus on the road! We also had a guide/driver pair in Cambodia, so that's 4 in total. <br>

With one exception (Hue/Hoi An) the guides were very good. But the one we had in the Delta/Saigon was exceptional. Due largely to his consideration, sensitivity to our particular interests, and his expertise, our time on the Delta was the highlight of our trip. His name is Vo Tri Tai. He lives in Saigon now, but was born and raised on the Delta, or "the west" as folks in Saigon refer to it. I have maintained contact with Tai. He is trying to establish his own tour business rather than continuing contract work. If you would like to contact him, drop me an email and I will give you his email address and phone number. I have checked with him and he would be happy to hear from you. My email is <strong>rdbuzza@yahoo.com</strong> .<br>

Bob Buzza</p>

[aladennis]

<p>Visited VN Feb 11 to Mar 11 2009<br>

Take a gander at my blog http://aladennis.blogspot.com/ All I have up so far are shots of Hanoi. A fascinating place to shoot. The Old quarter has a great shot every 5 feet of walking. I was sick most of the time but mesmerized by what I was seeing.<br>

Photo tips<br>

Hoi An: Be up at sunrise to be at the fish market. It is a riot of activity and color. The locals are so numb to tourist cameras that you can get up very close w/ impunity. I got some great shots that will be on my blog when I get time. School starts at 0700, so by 0630 girls in white traditional dresses are riding their bikes off the ferries which are only a 100 yards or so from the fish market - get a few shots.<br>

Can Tho: Do not take a big tourist boat to the floating market. Opt instead for a river boat that is about 20 feet long and has a boatman to row you thru the market. The cost appears to be $30 for an 8 hr trip no matter how many people on the boat. W/ my buddy and a guide (another $10 that I thought was well spent)we did OK. More people than that would hinder photography. On the 8 hr trip you see the floating veggie market and then on another 10 km to another smaller floating market. Then you stop off at a rice noodle "factory" (some huts w/ pigs out back) and maybe one or two other places along the canals where we shot monkey bridges, small boats and lucked out getting a good light angle on some children swimming. We only spent 20-30 min in veggie market before heading out further on our way. SUGGESTION: Pay an extra $5(?) to circle back thru the veggie market an extra circuit. That market is absolute photographic GOLD!<br>

Saigon: Photo wise I recommend it as a staging point to go elsewhere. The markets can be very good tho. At our hotel they told us that the High Speed boat did not go to Can Tho anymore. What they meant was "We aren't going to help you get on the hi speed boat cuz we don't get a cut of the booking money" Indeed the hi speed boat runs up to Can Tho at 0800 and 1300 every day and I recommend it for the photography. You can do busses on the rest of your time in VN<br>

Sapa: Fog, terraced fields, mountain people. Traffic isn't so bad that I felt safe renting a motor scooter ($7-$9/day plus gas) and went out of town. The road hangs on the side of the valley giving great views down into Lao chai, Ta Van and continues on down to Ban Ho. Approx 18 km one way. Lots of mountain people doing their thing along the way. Buy some peanut candy or fruit to hand out to kids if you want. All you really have to do in the vicinity of children is stop and take a picture and first thing you know you have a gaggle of children around. They love looking at the LCD screen to see themselves. Go slow taking time to shoot water buffalo, ducks, pigs, kids, expansive views of the valley etc. We didn't take an organized tour but just sashayed on down to Cat Cat village by ourselves with an entourage of Hmong women who offered to take us to their village of Lao Chai (?)the next day and fix us lunch. Good photos on the walk and at lunch in the hut. Of course we bought a bunch of stuff from them. (throw pillow cases, wall hangings, embroidered purse and even a blanket) and then had to pay for their motor cycle ride back up the mountain to town.<br>

Lots of the action is early in the a.m. and after dark at nite. A camera that has lo noise at hi ISO would be great. I missed a lot of great stuff that was in low light.<br>

I also wanted to see Cambodia, Thailand and so on but decided to do all 4 weeks in VN. I'd recommend Halong Bay and Ninh Binh area to be on your itinerary. Stay tuned to my blog and you'll see why I like those places so much. When are you going? Have a good trip<br>

Al</p>