ali.r Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Hello guys , I am a macro photographer & i have a panasonic fz7. I am upgrading it with a DSLR camera & one of my choise is nikon D60 & other choise is pentax k200D. Please help me to choise one of these cameras that give me best results.</p> <p>Tanx for your time & best wishes for you.</p> <p>***Ali***</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewg_ny Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>The first thing that comes to mind is that the D60's crippled lens mount might somewhat limit your choices for macro lenses, autofocus in particular. The Nikon shooters can probably help more with this but I think you want AF-S for full compatibility.</p> <p>If you're shooting out in the muck the weather-sealed body of the K200D might be handy. If you're shooting hand-held, the K200D also features in-body SR (stabilization) so virtually any mountable lens can be stabilized, even a thirty (or older) year old macro prime. As far as I know, none of the Nikon macro lenses are stabilized (VR in Nikonese).</p> <p>I think the K200D probably also has a <em>slightly</em> better viewfinder (higher magnification and coverage) but neither of these are as good as their upmarket brethren, the K20D or D90.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainvisions Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>If you're shooting macro, I'm not sure the crippled mount will matter.</p> <p>Most people, including myself, prefer manual focus when shooting macro. The Nikons will manual focus.</p> <p>As far as full compatibility, AF-S would be required for matrix metering, which is needed for the CLS system (distance is included in that), and also for AF.</p> <p>The other issue is shake reduction doesn't really work on high mag macro photography BUT we all know that we don't always shoot macro subjects with macro lenses. So while the VR/SR might not be useful for macro, the rest of your photos will benefit from camera bases shake reduction.</p> <p>Overall, the K200D is probably a better camera feature for feature. But again, if you're looking to do macro, the live view of the K20D seems like it would be a real winner. Unfortunately the screen of the K20D doesn't articulate, making it a bit less useful.</p> <p>Obviously the results of your question to this forum will bias towards Pentax, and I know for a fact the results of any question asked on a Nikon forum will bias Nikon. As someone who likes and shoots both brands, I think you cannot go wrong with either. Pentax in my opinion is a better value and quality is a push for what you are looking to do with your camera system.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_de_ley Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Hi Ali,</p> <p>I think you'll be very pleased with either camera but when it comes to macro there is one factor that for me would flip the balance in favor of the K200D: it has a genuine mirror lockup function. MLU is very helpful for minimizing vibration during slow exposures at high magnifications. In the D60 I gather you can only use lockup for sensor cleaning, not for actual shooting.</p> <p>It is definitely handy to have in-body stabilization, although the D60 apparently has a somewhat better performance at higher ISO which would partly circumvent the need for stabilization. If you're interested in working with bellows, Nikon probably has a slightly wider range of models to choose from (including the tilt/shift PB4) - but to get the best results from bellows you would definitely want a body with genuine MLU capability.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renatoa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>If you describe you as a macro photog, then *DON'T* switch to any (D)SLR, the compact cameras are better for macro due to the huge dof compared to SLRs.<br> As for quality, look at the last reviews of LX3, where it is compared with 1D at base ISO, that speaks enough. Or look here for some nature / macro: <a href="http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/11/lawrence-kim-panasonic-lx3-parts-2-and.html">http://www.seriouscompacts.com/2008/11/lawrence-kim-panasonic-lx3-parts-2-and.html</a><br> Andrew, Nikon has a VR macro. the 105/2.8, costing more than an average body.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orly_andico Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>I've heard that the K20D Live View is useless... anyone with a K20D can comment on this?<br> My wife wants to buy a Live View capable DSLR. I'd like to get her a K20D so we can share lenses.. but if the Live View is useless, it's a non-starter.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renatoa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Another reason for a non-SLR for macro... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
personalphotos Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>The live view is not useless, but could have been implemented better. Focus is manual in this mode and as Justin said the screen ca not be articulated so if the camera is over your head or down on the ground, it doesn't make it easy in some situations. But for shooting with a long tele or for macro work, the feature has it's benefits and you can zoom in on the screen to check the focus accuracy of the shot. But if you plan on buying a DSLR to hold out in front of you and go shooting, don't bother with any brand. That's really a secondary feature to make a DSLR buying choice, especially if you already have Pentax lenses available to you.</p> <p>As for the debate above. I can't add much to expand on what has already been said.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garry_young1 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>I used to feel that my K20D's live view was not very benefitial, but I have found myself using it more and more. It definitely only lends itself to a situation where you can take your time in composing and getting the autofocus set, but I have found that if you don't mind the extra second or two involved, it is actually <b>very useful</b> for when I can't get myself down (or up) to the viewfinder.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garry_young1 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>By the way Peter, the focus is not manual, but activated through the use of the AF button. Just hold it down until the lens is auto-focused and the auto-focus in-focus confirmation beep sounds, then release the AF button. A little clumsy, but very sharp.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpo3136b Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Ali, K200D. The lens choices alone are worth it. When you get into macro, the lenses will be more expensive. Since you can use "any Pentax lens ever made" with a K200D, you'll have more choices on the lens market. With a simple $15 adapter, the screwmount lenses will also work with the K200D. This means that you will have over 50 years' worth of lenses to choose from. You'll be able to find lenses you like, easier, for prices that can fit into many budgets.</p> <p>The Nikon equipment is probably good, too. But, after using Pentax for so many years, some of those name brands look like the hood ornament on a car; mostly there for showing off the name. I'm sure the D60 is a well built camera, but I really believe in the Pentax gear. I own a K200D. It's a good camera. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewg_ny Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>This is obviously diverging from the initial post as we're talking K20D rather than K200D but I wouldn't go so far as to say that K20D live view is 'worthless', but if your wife wants to use it like you'd use live view on a compact, forget it. You can't view or change exposure settings while using it. AF is reasonably fast but clunky (no contrast-detect, it uses mirror-up, AF lock, mirror down), and the whole thing would benefit from a higher-res 920K review LCD like the latest Nikons have. One thing it is useful for is framing - you get 100% of the frame, and you may be able to see it from angles (like close to the ground) that are very difficult to use the optical viewfinder. Yes, it would be even better in this regard if could swivel/pivot. </p> <p>One of my peeves with Pentax is that they have one preview switch (on the on/off lever) and you can only expose optical DoF preview, digital preview, or live view--and there's no easy way to get to the others. This bugged me on the K10D and now with Live View available its even worse because you have three features that are all useful at times but you can only get one at a time without changing a custom setting. I think they <em>should </em> have a <em>four</em> -rather than-three position power/preview lever; off->on->optical dof->digital preview. And assign a different button to be used for live view.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leo_papandreou1 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>I don't get the K200. The K10 and K20 are complete. Since APS-C is a mature technology, features matter more than image quality, which is a wash for all models. Therefore it makes sense to pay $200 more for a K20, or $200 less for a K10, and not have to upgrade again for lack of features. What's $200? Four tanks of gas, where I live.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali.r Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Tanx guys for your time to answer ^^^ RENATO i have a panasonic FZ7 & i realy happy that give it beacouse this camera is Extraordinary for macro shots , it has mega OIS & superzoom & very nice flash , But this camera has very little sensor & too many noise even in low sensivity ! Therefore i want upgrade it with a DSLR for replacement image quality. I want that realy replacement a SLR LIKE with a SLR is benefit or no ? Tanx again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasbiker Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Go with the Pentax.... not just because this is a Pentax forum. But the D60 (& D40) have some limitations. Also as suggested you might look at upgrading to the upper level Pentax bodies. Although my K100DS is a great camera.<br> Now if you are considering the D80 or D90, then that is different.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renatoa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Ali, no solution is magic, and gaining in a corner means losing in the other corner... DSLRs may have better noise, but, are you aware that a DSLR macro will give you 4 times or less DOF ? Are you ready to accept this constraint? To achieve same DOF as using your compact camera, on a DSLR you must close 4 f-stops, and, for same exposure time, boost the ISO by 4 levels. So, you arrive at iso 1600 to get the same image as for your compact at iso 100 ! Still thinking you will have any noise gain ? The only way to have both, DOF and low ISO is by sacrificing exposure times, shooting only static subjects from a tripod, or using costly ring flashes.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali.r Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Tanx my friend RENATO for your answers , RENATO now with these descriptions which of the SLR LIKE cameras is better in market ?</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali.r Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Olympus SP590 or panasonic FZ28 or canon SX10IS or fuji S100FS ?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renatoa Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>None of them, want quality, forget long zooms !<br> Canon G10 or Panasonic LX3.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainvisions Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>The live view isn't useless, actually i used it for getting my DOF correct in my K1000 porn (Proof of life thread).</p> <p>It is quite useful for macro, and IMO that is the only place it is truly useful.</p> <p>It is a beta live view, I noted this in my K20D review posted here on photo.net.</p> <p>Is it better than no live view? Absolutely, is it a final version? Not at all.</p> <p>Finally, only a tilting screen would make live view great for macro, and the issue I have with tilting screens is they break. It's a weakness, just like the popup RTF is a weakness.</p> <p>So it's give and take.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orly_andico Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Ahh, I see.. so contrast-detect is not available for K20D Live View.<br> I never could get the contrast-detect AF working on the EOS 1000D... but I found the magnified view for manual focusing to be an excellent use case.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_de_ley Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>Renato, like you point out no solution is magic. As with all aspects of photography, there's more than one way to do things when it comes to macro, and Ali's portfolio shows how you can get excellent results with the higher-end point & shoots.</p> <p>However, maximizing DOF is not the be-all and end-all of macro. Although P&S cameras can give you greater DOF than DSLRs, they usually have much smaller sensors that not only suffer more noise at higher ISO but also reduce the actual magnification ratios and working distances you can attain.</p> <p>As a case in point, the Canon G10 only reaches an actual magnification of 1:4 at the wide end of its zoom range, where it suffers a lot of pincushion distortion and has a tiny working distance of 1cm. Magnification goes down to a truly lousy 1:12 at the tele end of the zoom (where pincushion is not an issue) so the gain in working distance will in many cases not pay off.</p> <p>By contrast, many DSLR macro lenses in the 90 to 105mm focal length range will give you true 1:1 magnification at a whopping whole foot of working distance. With active and alert critters like lizards, butterflies and dragonflies you will get much better shots a lot more of the time if you can stay that far away from them.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainvisions Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 <p>I should note that in my statement above (first one) that I am refering to older AF lenses will meter on the D60, also all chipped MF lenses will meter. I wasn't refering to AI or AIS lenses, just AF and chipped MF.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali.r Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 <p>Tanx paul , Now with this descriptions which body is better with about 600$ ?!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali.r Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 <p>Do you think that replacement my fz7 with a DSLR is good work ?!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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