I need help and fast!

[richard_nichols4]

I agree with J.W. Let her get envolved in the learning process, then make a decision on lenses from there. You might want to speak to her instructor to find out what may be required equipment for these classes. By all means get the 50mm 1.8

Theres a good reason that lens is referred to as the "nifty fifty" or "plastic fantastic"

I can't wait to see her expierements posted here! Good luck and happy shooting!

[Jeff Lear]

You have a very lucky daughter and from the sounds of it, she a lucky mother.

 

Oh, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but make sure she knows that ef-s lenses DO NOT FIT her 10D ;)

[mark_poseley]

Brandy:

 

From one neophyte to another here is what I think.

 

The 35 - 80 on the T2 camera is more than enough for your almost 16 yo daughter.

 

Purchase a new 'nifty fifty' (Canon 50 mm F1.8 MK II lens) from Adorama or a local trusted camera shop for the 10D and your daughter has a marvelous setup to get going. This lens should be about 85 - 100 bucks new.

 

Did the 10D come with a memory card? If it isn't a 512 MB card at least she will need more memory. What I really like about digital over film is the ability to take a boatload of pictures and you incur no processing costs. This makes digital an incredible learning tool.

[brandy_redder]

<p>Mark, thank you. Thank you every for your answers and contributions.<br>

Yes, we have memory cards. We actually have a few cards... lol I have a couple 2G and 1G cards.<br>

I actually received a very nice Nikon last year for Christmas from my husband (the D40) and bought the cards for it. I t

oo, need to learn a lot about photography. I've used it for just regular family shots but haven't explored any further than the de

fault settings. He also gave me a nice zoom lens that was like another $200</p>

<p

>&

lt; p>My daughter, after having explored cameras at the local Best Buy, Sears, etc. decided she liked Canon's bette

r.

<br>

< p>We unfortuantely do not have a camera store here any longer. Not even a Ritz. We had a nice family

owned camera s hop in the square downtown but it closed this summer due to chain stores competition. <br />I would have to

drive an hour a nd a half south to Syracuse in order to get to a camera store, hence my looking online as muc

h

as I can.<br>

< p>So I think it's settled; she n

[michaeljlawson]

<p>Hello Brandy,  If you can, stick with the online dealers mentioned in Arie's post above.  Make sure to verify any other possible online seller at www.resellerratings.com before you give them any info.  There are a lot of shady sellers out there.</p>

[derrickdehaan]

<p>Brandy,<br>

Your nikon takes SD memory cards.  The Canon 10D will take CF memory cards.  Two different animals.</p>

<p>Derrick</p>

[brandy_redder]

Derrick - thank you! So... yeah, I guess I'll have to get her more memory cards.

The camera comes with only a 128mb...

 

Thank you again!

[josh_gilreath]

<p>It's good to see that you did go after a film camera! Contrary to what people say on this post, if your daughter is really interested in photography and considers a photographic education.. one of the very first things that will be taught is basic black and white darkroom! NO NOT DIGITAL! Trust me, I just looked into a college! Granted you get instant feedback with digital, but film helps you to become a more careful (less lazy) photographer, since each shot cost money to develop you learn to make sure that each shot counts!<br>

Film is great! It's worked for over a hundred years! Don't let people talk you out of it! Digital is great, but learn both and you will be a better photographer!</p>

[josh_gilreath]

<p>And i second the opinion of buying one really good lens versus three cheap lenses.. you cant go wrong with a prime (50mm F1.8) And whatever you do buy name brand! </p>

[chuck_t]

I don't get it. Why don't you spend around $200 dollars and purchase a used Nikon camera like the old F2, FM or FE with a prime lens like 50mm f1.8 The Nikon lenses are fully forward and backward compatible. Thus, save you the trouble. Honesly, you should get her a Nikon D700, too. I know it is expensive, but film is for the basic and digital is for her future career. With the old 50mm lens attached plus a recent new computer, she is all set for the path to become a photographer. You are lucky that she is not interested in playing piano. LoL. A piano costs much more than a camera.

 

Later on, also get her a Nikon 55mm f3.5 Marco lens for around 99 bucks on ebay. May be cheaper, don't destroy her dream.

[larry bowers]

<p>Brandy,<br>

I just read your post and you got a lot of great answers. I agree I would try to buy one good lens that will work on both cameras. Sigma and Tokina make some very good lenses. If you haven't already bought the 10D and I have 20D that I want to sell which is the next version up from the 10D. I live in Maryland, are you close to the east coast?</p>

[brandy_redder]

I haven't gone to pick up the 10D yet... I contacted the man on Craigslist and he said he would take $200 for the 10D.

How much did you want for the 20D and what is the difference, really? I mean, obviously it's an upgrade to the 10D but I'm assuming the only real difference is the addition of the ability to use EF-S lenses?

 

thanks.

[michaeljlawson]

<p>KEH has 1 10D they say is in excellent condition ad is going for 245.00.  Their 20Ds go for 365.00 to 430.00.  The 20D has 8.2MP vs the 10Ds 6.3.  The 20 D has a higher Max shutter speed, and also takes EF-s Lenses. I also read the 20D perferms better at higher ISOs and has a faster write speeed. If you get a reasonable offer for a 20D, it would be worth it IMO.</p>

[brandy_redder]

Sorry I didn't answer your other question, yes... I'm on the east coast. West, Upstate New York (Watertown, near Canadian border)

[sarah_fox]

<p>Brandy, the 20D would indeed be a better camera than the 10D, mostly because it's not so slow.  I doubt the high ISO performance is much different from the 10D.  In fact my old 10D is very slightly better than my modern 5D in shadow detail and high ISO performance, and the 5D is a hard camera to beat in that respect.  I suspect image quality is about the same between the 10D and 20D -- a couple more MP is all.  The higher write speed does count for a lot, especially if people are waiting on you to shoot, while you're drumming your fingers waiting on the camera to write.</p>

[rob - atlanta, ga usa]

<p>I agree with "landscape shooter."  Start over.</p>

[rob - atlanta, ga usa]

<p>I agree with "landscape shooter."  Start over.  Keep the 10D or sell it and buy the Rebel, sell the film camera and cheap zoom.  Then buy the 50 1.8 from KEH.com.  I see no point in taking a photography class that requires a film camera.  To me that is like people who think it's better to learn how to drive using a stick shift.  Better to learn the basics on an automatic transmission.  Then, after you have become proficient with the automatic, you can learn how to drive the stick.  You really need to shoot slides to learn much about exposure from a film camera.  Slides require a longer turn around time today due to fewer processing places.  Stick with the digital.  You can learn more from the instant feedback, imo.<br>

Boy, I've been a member here since 1998 and the forum software is still archaic.</p>

[brandy_redder]

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt">How does this sound then?</p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt"> </p>

<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt">Rebel XTi with video cable, all original manuals, box, camera body, EF-S 18-55 lens AND the EF50mm f/1.8 lens strap, charger, batteries, bag, 2gb card, tripod... just under $500?</p>

[landscape_shooter]

<p>Myself, I would be wary of buying any used camera- is the sensor scratched?,was it dropped?,  Was it out in

all weather etc?  Was it used for tons of photos?  Do the batteries hold a charge well?  Does the p

erson have good feedback?  These are all thoughts.   Any new camera will come with everything you nee

d-cables etc, even the Canon software programs at BH photo.  Did you check out bhphotovideo.com?  They will have ab

out the lowest prices from someone you can trust.  ; I would not buy a new camera from someone else.   

Right now they have a Rebel XS with 18-55 IS lens for 485.00, free shipping, XSI with 18-55 IS for 639.00, XTI Body only f

or 499.00.  I think any of these would make a great firs t camera.  The XS I am not real familiar with but i

t looks like an XTI replacement model, and the XSI being a step up.  Does the lens with the XTI you are tal

king about have IS-image stabilizer?  There are two versions of the 18-55 lens.  The first version doesn't

have IS and is not as good optically.  Image Stabilizer allows y ou to hand hold the lens to much slower shu

tter speeds.  I would  not buy a camera used unless I was saving a substantial amount of money.  I didn't

recommend your 1st set up because everything you were buying was used a nd in questionable working order.  If

you spend 200 on 10D plus you wanted to spend around 100 more on lens it wou ld be half price or more versus a new ca

mera and this is comparing new model NEW to old model USED.  If this was a used XTI or XSI I think it would be

OK but you are spen ding it on old equipment.  The 10D series is now up to the 50D.  The 10D is only around

6 mega pixels, much older senor, processor, slow card write speed, you need to buy CF cards versus using the SD ones you h

ave for Rebels,  I doubt it has sensor cleaning, won't take EFS lenses so I don't know what lens you are going t

o get for wide angle,  etc.  The X TI or XSI will do everything the 10D would.  I would advise you to search

the previous forums, Bobatkins.com, photozone.de etc for more info on what particular models have.  I would buy

the XSI if I could afford one with the 18-55 IS lens.  Buy the 50 1.8 in the future for birthday etc, or maybe she w

ill on her own.   I would not worry much about having lenses work on both film and digital as I see a 15 year old going

digital for good.  Why is she going to want to spend constant money on processing and developing?  Does she ha

ve a job?  If she does I imagine there are other things she wants to spend money on as well.  With digital she can

shoot as much as she wants and look at all of them on th0e computer showing all the exif data(which tell her all the came

ra settings for eac

[landscape_shooter]

<p>Other post was cut off:-----------------------------<br>

Myself, I would be wary of buying any used camera- is the sensor scratched?,was it dropped?,  Was it out in all weather etc?  Was it used for tons of photos?  Do the batteries hold a charge well?  Does the person have good feedback?  These are all thoughts.   Any new camera will come with everything you need-cables etc, even the Canon software programs at BH photo.  Did you check out bhphotovideo.com?  They will have about the lowest prices from someone you can trust.  ; I would not buy a new camera from someone else.    Right now they have a Rebel XS with 18-55 IS lens for 485.00, free shipping, XSI with 18-55 IS for 639.00, XTI Body only for 499.00.  I think any of these would make a great firs t camera.  The XS I am not real familiar with but it looks like an XTI replacement model, and the XSI being a step up.  Does the lens with the XTI you are talking about have IS-image stabilizer?  There are two versions of the 18-55 lens.  The first version doesn't have IS and is not as good optically.  Image Stabilizer allows y ou to hand hold the lens to much slower shutter speeds.  I would  not buy a camera used unless I was saving a substantial amount of money.  I didn't recommend your 1st set up because everything you were buying was used a nd in questionable working order.  If you spend 200 on 10D plus you wanted to spend around 100 more on lens it wou ld be half price or more versus a new camera and this is comparing new model NEW to old model USED.  If this was a used XTI or XSI I think it would be OK but you are spen ding it on old equipment.  The 10D series is now up to the 50D.  The 10D is only around 6 mega pixels, much older senor, processor, slow card write speed, you need to buy CF cards versus using the SD ones you have for Rebels,  I doubt it has sensor cleaning, won't take EFS lenses so I don't know what lens you are going to get for wide angle,  etc.  The X TI or XSI will do everything the 10D would.  I would advise you to search the previous forums, Bobatkins.com, photozone.de etc for more info on what particular models have.  I would buy the XSI if I could afford one with the 18-55 IS lens.  Buy the 50 1.8 in the future for birthday etc, or maybe she will on her own.   I would not worry much about having lenses work on both film and digital as I see a 15 year old going digital for good.  Why is she going to want to spend constant money on processing and developing?  Does she have a job?  If she does I imagine there are other things she wants to spend money on as well.  With digital she can shoot as much as she wants and look at all of them on th0e computer showing all the exif data(which tell her all the camera settings for each shot-making learning alot easier.)  I think the film will be for school class, and not much more.  Most all the professional who loved to shoot film have switched.  What would make her attain a real love for film over digital other than to do all her own darkroom stuff at home?  I think the XSI or XTI is a camera that would serve her well for years.  I saw amazing photos the other day looking at Dan Mitchell's site taken with an XTI-gdanmitchell.com-check them out.   Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you need to stay away from entry level Rebel series to get great photos.  Great photos come from great photographers.  This is just my recommendation though!</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Brandy, with all due respect to Landscape Shooter, I think he is presenting the specter of some rather unlikely problems.  It is VERY important that the terms of the XTi deal include return/refund/exchange if the camera isn't as described.  It's up to you to check it out.  If you don't know a lot about cameras, perhaps a friend could check it out for you.  You can check for a scratched (or dirty) sensor by setting the lens to f/22 and the mode to Av and then shooting an out-of-focus picture of your wall or a cloudless sky.  Blow the picture up on your computer screen, and you'll see any dust or scratches.  Dust is normal and can be cleaned.  Scratches are highly, highly unlikely, but if they're there, they're a deal-breaker.  Note that a cleaning fluid streak can look like a scratch, so only a cleaning will verify a scratch.  Oh, for all it's worth, I've known a photographer (not me) who had his wedding ring fall off onto the sensor while he was cleaning it.  It didn't leave a scratch.  ;-)</p>

<p>Regarding the 18-55 lens, the non-IS version is indeed less desireable than the IS lens, but only because of the lack of IS (which is a very nice feature.  Despite its bad reputation on this forum, the optics (which are *different*) are actually not of substantially different image quality than the IS version.  I've not owned either lens, but I've looked at side-by-side image comparisons, and honestly there isn't that much difference.  I'd recommend the IS, but I wouldn't say the non-IS is a deal-breaker.</p>

<p>Regarding XTi vs. XSi, I doubt either camera's images would look that different with either of the 18-55 lenses.  On the other hand, the 50/1.8 lens produces a sharp enough image that you might be see a very slight difference with very large prints -- VERY large.  There are also advantages to lower megapixel counts, namely higher light sensitivity and lower color "noise."</p>

<p>Film vs. digital:  People go around and around about this all the time.  I'm mostly digital myself, but that's beside the point.  Because you KNOW she will be learning film in the courses she will be taking, your plan to give her both digital AND film is valid.  Showing up for a photography course without the correct tools is a nonstarter.  The EF-S 18-55 lens won't fit the film camera, but that's not a problem if you also have the EF 35-80.  A realistic long-range plan would be to get her film gear that she could ditch after her film coursework is over.  To be very realistic, very few kids see any benefit to film, and it's expensive.  On the other hand, if she decides she loves film, there will be no shortage of VERY inexpensive film cameras on Ebay that that are being abandoned for digital.  She can pick up an EOS 1n or 3 for maybe $200.  Both are very nice professional-grade cameras.</p>

<p>I agree with Landscape's assessment of Rebels vs. xxD cameras.  The Rebels will give you similar image quality at a lesser equipment cost.  They're actually fairly tough too -- surprisingly.  They're smaller and lighter, which some people like and others don't.  They're a bit slower, a bit more amateur freindly, and a bit more expert-hostile.  However, there's nothing you can do with an xxD that you can't do with a Digital Rebel, with similar image quality.</p>

<p>Sensor-cleaning feature:  GREATLY over-rated.  In short, it doesn't do a whole lot.  Periodic manual cleanings are still needed.  Note: I've never had an auto-clean camera.  Even my 5D doesn't do that.  However, I've asked several 40D owners, and they all agree on this point.</p>

<p>Your plan 2 is good too.  The XTi is a good camera (probably better than the 10D, but obviously more expensive).  The 18-55 is a very useful normal lens -- either version.</p>

<p>Finally, as a parent, I have to agree with your assessment of "good enough for a 15 year old."  Get her the basic tools, and allow her to upgrade them as her needs dictate.</p>

[landscape_shooter]

<p>If you are thinking of buying a used XTI for 500.00, that would not be worth it, so don't even check it out!  A new XTI is 500.00 at BH photo, and the lens isn't that much.  The XS with lens is also cheaper, with a lens!  If you must buy used, they have an XTI used for 369.00-this woud come with a warranty.   I don't think  anyone would buy a used camera without actually saving some money- a decent amount.  .  You definitely need to know the new prices on the camera you are looking at used so you can do the math and see what you are actually saving.  Then you can decide if it is worth it to you or not.   There is a real useable difference in the IS or non-IS version of the 18-55, so if paying similar amounts, go for the better one.  IS will make a difference.  I have used the XSI and it is a great camera.  It is from my use that I am recommending it.</p>

[jo_johnson2]

<p>Brandy,<br>

I doubt you are reading responses any longer, but here's one more thing. You may want to wait for her to start

school before you invest a lot of money in her gear. I just finished up with a program and we were only allowed to use

a 50mm lens for our first 2 classes while we were learning the basics. I know of other programs where they start all

students with 4x5 film cameras.<br>

She's lucky to have someone so excited about sending her to art school.</p>