Are professional wedding photos really needed?

[bevw]

I actually think the original poster's question is a good one. I think about those questions all the time - and I'm

a wedding photographer. Frankly, I believe that amateurs CAN do a decent job at the reception if formal posing is

not desired and if the b and g don't care that their images show the effects of amateur flash. Where pros really

count is in the experience and gear we bring to difficult logistics situations like the dark church and formal

posing skills. Also, brides buy those inordinately expensive gowns to wear once because they want to look like

the magazine images they see -they know that only pros can make them look like that.

 

 

 

I do often wonder why I go to such great lengths to use fill flash and herd people into open shade and arrange

them in stiff poses, etc.. What most matters to many people is that their loved ones "aliveness" is registered

on "film", that the occasion is documented to tell the story. They want to remember that they and their friends

and family had a great party. Sure, rule of thirds, diffused flash, maybe formal poses etc helps tell that story

a bit better but is it really worth $3000 better to the average person not schooled in the arts? I don't think so

and I think the market is telling us that now.

[brad_hutcheson]

I wasn't going to bother posting to this, but after a few days I seem to have taken the bait too. I'll agree

with a lot of people who say it isn't needed, but if high quality photos are wanted, hire a professional wedding

photographer. You will stand a much better chance of getting the good photos you want than letting someone who

is not a wedding photographer do it. There are good pros at almost every price point, so go with what you can

afford. I really think most weddings these days are way overdone, and way too expensive. I've heard some of the

prices people here say they charge, and I'm shocked by it sometimes, but if you are good enough to charge that

much (whatever that much is) and still get work, then the market has decided that you are not overcharging.

 

As I've said before, I'm not a wedding photographer. I don't like to do them, and I don't think I'm very good at

them either. Even so, I get talked into it once in a while after trying to talk the friend or relative out of

having me do it. The first thing I do is try to explain that nature photography is completely different from

wedding photography, and I do nature, not people. Sometimes I can't convince them and end up shooting the

wedding. When that happens I know I'm out of my element, but I do the best job I can. I could just refuse, but

sometimes it isn't worth the trouble that would cause either.

 

Some people want the top pro that they have heard of. Damn the cost, how much is it a month? Others would would

rather take a chance on me against my advice just to save a little money. To each his own. Maybe I should raise

my prices next time someone asks.

[35mmdelux]

a pro knows what to expect and is experinced in dealing wth the stress that often accompanies the wedding party, has the right industrial caliber gear, and knows what to anticipate. a pro is versed in the diff between a sharp foto and a fuzzy foto. a pro consistently delivers the goods.

 

This is the same reason that the mail clerk wont get sent to photog the Queen instead choosing to send a Leibovitz, or an Avedon.

[pujo]

Just want to comment on below comments.

 

Especially his word "If you have unlimited chances to complete something you desired, are you willing to take the

risk and DIY"?

And yes I see it in the big big picture

 

I guess Mr. Chuck here is not married yet or he is married but does not know what is involved in the common

marriage ceremony. While maybe his word can apply to few couple but for 99% of wedding that sentence is just

plain unapplicable, time can not be rewind, so moments only happened 1 time. B&G does not have enough time to think

about is the picture look nice or not? they have much more thing to worried about. First maybe is my soon to be

spouse is going to show up or not, or is the ring going to be there, is the minister going to be there, is the

flower okay, is my guests feel happy, and thousand more.

 

I have been to weddings in US several time, and had a chance to cover them as a second shooter. I say the average

of guest in the US is much smaller than the wedding guests in Indonesia. In average the guest of a wedding in

Indonesia is

about 500 invitation (1000 guests) and 30% of wedding goes to 2000 guests or more (I have been to a wedding with

5000 guests), 20% is less than 500 guests. Now with that many people please tell me honestly that your word still

stand as you say it. if yes, please tell me how?

 

Because with that many people at that time, you are the least important people in your B&G eyes.

 

I agree that David question is valid, all question is valid to be asked. its just that his opinion not valid for

most wedding.

By the way, I am not a pro, so I am saying this as a groom and have the experience to shot wedding in film and

digital as a main or second shooter.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Chuck T said:

I had been in a Wedd' Professional business before, and I understand what David

is trying to say. However, the way

 

of what he said are offensive and humiliate to professionals, which I also

understand.

 

 

 

I'm disappointed a lot of professionals were not seeing the big picture. Let's

take a step back, and think about the

 

composition again. "Yeah, you need a wideangle lens here;)"

 

 

 

A lot of replied from pros are saying similar to one thing: "You get what you

paid for in the end". They have missed

 

the new digital photography realm and most are thinking the dark ages, that is,

"film-days" .

 

 

 

Let me ask you a question, especially, to all Wedd' Pros: "If you have

unlimited chances to complete something you

 

desired, are you willing to take the risk and DIY"?

 

 

 

I bet the answers from all of you are "Yes" or "Of course". Well, enough said,

my point will stand correct.

 

 

 

All digital cameras have Instant Feedback; therefore, the B and G can ask their

buddy to retake the photos until they

 

are satisfied. Thus, professional photographers are no longer neccessary

anymore. An "Average Joe" could be

 

wedding photographer, because he just has to following exactly what the B and G

told him to do so. Maybe the final

 

result they are getting, in our opinion, are just snapshot but to them, maybe

priceless and worth thousand words.

 

 

 

In the old film days, most newly wedd were not taking their chances by not

hiring a photographer, because they only

 

had one chance in their lifetime in that special event. Therefore, they needed

to "trust" the Pros by hiring them than

 

take advantage on an "Average Joe".

[manuel barrera houston,]

I don't look at the screen on the back of the camera often, I usually know ahead of time if I did it right. I am not a Pro as my income is not from photography. One thing I did find out early in my hobby (I do make some money about 5-15 thousand a year) is that you can't trust that little screen, not even the 3 inch. The other thing I want to mention is that you can't ask them to walk down the aisle again as you did not get it right the first time. You get one chance, if you have a good camera and lighting maybe three chances.

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

I want to clarify my statement listed above. At my age I've seen it all. My wife & I have been married for 31 years and

we didn't have a lavish wedding back in 1977. We have 30 photos from the entire event. One of my associates

photographers has been married for 42 years and eloped back in 1966.

 

I wouldn't be all so concerned about the wedding day celebration but more about making a long lasting marriage.

 

However, your photos will ignite, hopefully, fond memories of your wedding day, providing something to pass down to

your children and grand-children in you have any. How you want to remember them, it's your choice. Perhaps, in time,

you won't want to remember.

 

I just finished putting the crib together when our grand children visit.

 

Best to You With Your Future Successes.

[craig_shearman1]

Do you need a professional wedding photographer? Not any more than any of the other professionals at a wedding.

Forget the church -- God is everywhere. Forget the caterer -- Mom's a pretty good cook. Forget the reception hall --

the backyard is fine. Forget the baker -- cousin Linda makes a mean cake. Forget the band -- 13-year-old James

plays the trumpet just fine. Aunt Mary can sew the dress, the groom can wear his regular business suit and Uncle

Harry can mix drinks at the bar. The bride's father's Lincoln Town Car isn't a stretch but it's only two years old. And

Uncle Bob still has almost a whole roll of film leftover from Christmas in his point-and-shoot. Actually, plenty of

people have had very nice weddings with all of the above. Some people are very happy with that, some want

something else. It all depends on your budget and your tastes.

[mgk1966]

"Are pro wedding photos needed?" No. Oxygen is needed. Photos are a luxury. Professional, artistic photos of your wedding are even more so. Before the advent of the camera, millions of people got married with no visual record of the day and their lives together turned out fine. Same goes for billions of people around the world today.

 

I haven't read through all 81 posts, so sorry if I repeated another's thoughts.

[richard_wang11]

This entire thread reflect the all too common notion that wedding photography is a commodity.

 

That every photographer and every result is the same.

 

Well, if you maintain that attitude, and I've seen scores of wedding photographers here who have that attitude, you will fail.

 

I come from marketing and sales and the most critical task is to create an unique presence in the marketplace.

 

I seek constantly to understand what drive my clients, what are the emotional triggers, what are their desires, dreams and aspirations.

 

Nothing brings up these emotional triggers like a wedding, except for the birth of a child.

 

A bride will spend up to 1 year planning her wedding, in fact I think most brides begin planning their wedding since they first saw "Cinderella", "Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast", etc.

 

An agency won't spend a year planning a major campaign!

 

I don't offer a commodity.

 

I offer me, my skills, my understand, my shoulder to cry on, my ability to organize.

 

I offer something unique.

[pclancy]

Another provocative thesis. Someone who clearly has no understanding of photographic technique/lighting, no grasp on the concept of subjectivity and taste, and who can barely phrase together a sentence shouldn't get so many replies with explanations that he clearly can't comprehend anyway. I guess wedding season is winding down.

[christopher_m]

I think it's an interesting question worth discussing. Obviously you will get photos if you collect those from people who took them (provided they actually send them to you when you ask and don't keep forgetting or putting it off).

 

If you don't want a professional (or an experienced amateur), you can forget formals, and ceremony pictures.

 

Many churches don't allow flashes during the ceremony. That means point and shoots are going to deliver very crappy photos. Even if they did allow a flash, your GN 12 flash isn't going to be powerful enough to illuminate the altar, 30 feet away.

 

You can also expect many ceremony pictures to look like they were taken in a dark cave.

 

To ask a friend is a big favor. There's a lot of work and a lot of stress involved. Getting the right photos isn't easy and it takes planning and coordinating.

[jennifer_spencer]

My husband and I eloped. The photographer was my largest expense, then the dress, then the flowers, then the JP. The photographer & his assistant were our "witnesses".

 

I am SO glad I hired a pro and paid the rather large fee because everyone who saw the album afterward said "wow - I feel like I was there, looking at these pictures." I heard that comment over and over. I know that no friend or family member would have done the job that my hired professional did, had they been present, nor would they have created the art-photography look that I loved, nor would they have used black & white film and printed them on fiber paper. I feel I got what I paid for.

 

That said, I have really seen some schlock out there marketed as "professional" work. I was at a loss for word, for instance, when looking at two of my different friends' wedding photos. I was thinking to myself "gees - did this person even try metering this scene?!!" The overhead skylight was perfectly metered but the whole wedding party was washed out. In another, the bride's beaded dress detail was beautifully in focus and her face wasn't (and not in an artsy way - just a "didn't get depth of field" way). In another wedding, the photographer took a (flashed) shot about every 30 seconds or less throughout the whole wedding and reception, but I would not have paid for one of them they were so badly framed. Plus the guests were half blind from all the darned flashes all night long. Those B&G's paid over $2K each for those wedding photos, and I was sad for them. I managed to say "you look beautiful" and "what a great location" and "I love that dress" instead. Whew. There, I think, if they had asked Uncle Bob (or me), it might have turned out just as good or better.

 

The buyer must beware, as always. The buyer should also hire someone who takes photos in the style that they want - maybe those are all formals and no candid or opportunistic shots. Sometimes people don't pay attention to what they are buying, sadly.

 

There is nothing wrong with a humble wedding, or a small wedding, or a low-budget wedding. And there is nothing wrong with people who want to do it themselves. But I do think there is something to be said for the quality of a professional photographer, if you shop around. Sentiment is worth something. A good photographer can preserve special moments in a way that your guests with cameras don't always manage. Pros have experience with taking wedding photos - it's possible they have learned a thing or two along the way, such as what makes a great shot and what won't work, not to mention good photo habits.

[shoots]

"Another provocative thesis. Someone who clearly has no understanding of photographic technique/lighting, no grasp on the

concept of subjectivity and taste, and who can barely phrase together a sentence shouldn't get so many replies with explanations

that he clearly can't comprehend anyway. I guess wedding season is winding down."

 

Oh come on Patrick! Give me a break.

 

Did it occur to you that the reason there are so many replies to this thread is because this is a question every professional has to

weigh at some point or another and that is "Am at risk of I becoming obsolete?" Scary question if this is how you make your living

and a subject many are afraid to broach. Its natural that many may take a defensive posture, and like a train wreck the question

draws attention. Also, I think the mere volume of replies attest to the interest in a question so rarely aired.

 

So right or wrong, knowing or unknowing, it looks like David struck a deeply buried nerve of some kind.

[fotografz]

Please allow me sum it all up with a few words:

 

There is a huge difference between "need" and "want". That difference applies to almost anything.

 

The notion that people can't tell a good photo from a bad one is gratuitous and insulting.

[pclancy]

David’s thesis which is actually subjective (good photo/bad photo) isn’t addressing the merit’s of professional wedding photography, it’s merely addressing taste, or ones lack there of.

[William Michael]

Patrick . . . like I wrote - more applicable to ``Casual Conversations`` Forum, IMO.

 

On the other recent point raised, Troy, I do not think pondering the possibility of ``obsolescence`` (kind of extreme) let`s say ``diminished income`` prompted many (if any) W&P Professionals with a few hundred flying hours under the belt, to respond on this post.

 

WW

[don_harper_the_edge]

I’ll preface this by saying that I’m a professional photographer who photographs a lot of weddings.

Is what I do essential to people’s lives? No, what I provide is a luxury. Can it be duplicated by friends with quality digital cameras? No, if you look at the images on my website slide show you will see images that can’t be duplicated on a consistent basis by friends or family.

 

 

Someone might capture an image similar, but their chances of producing them throughout an event and event after event simply won’t happen.

 

Regarding formal group portraits, most people are clueless how to pose tow people let alone 6, 12, 24, 150 people and I can do this in a matter of minutes. The formals I can create are going to be something people want as large prints over the fireplace, etc. However, people don’t want to be standing around spending hours creating these portraits, they want to talk, mingle and share a great time and day. People are going to look natural and at ease in our photos because we know how to work with people.

Why are these formal pictures important?

Weddings and funerals are one of the few times when many of these friends and relatives will be together. When you are photographing multiple generations, a number of people will find these are the last good pictures of a dear friend or relative. It’s sad how often someone will bring us a snapshot of someone who has passed away, and the only image they have is a poorly lit, blurry, badly posed picture and want us to FIX it for them and create a portrait. My wedding clients aren’t in this situation.

 

Details are important. Brides are investing a large sum in details for the day and the images we give them preserve those memories. Detail pictures are like bookmarks that when we view them trigger memories that would fade and be lost in time. Will a family member or friend know about capturing those details?

 

Moment’s can be captured in an unobtrusive manner when you are skilled. I can stand away from the couple and their guests and capture their personality as they interact with the other guests. That’s when you see the personality of an individual. Our client’s look at those images and say “That’s him or her, that’s exactly they way they are?

 

Ceremonies are of all kinds in all sorts of locations from majestic cathedrals that are expansive and have variable lighting or outdoors in the mid-day sun. The lighting and access cover the spectrum and you need to be able to photograph in ambient light without flash Can your family and friends do this while following the rules of the officiant and venue and most importantly not be intrusive. Can that friend capture the details of the ceremony, not much chance of that.

 

Professional wedding photography is a luxury, but I have clients that tell me actually it’s essential. When I visit their homes I will see wedding photographs spanning over a hundred years I some cases and each represents a story about family members. It’s continuity of family that’s important for people.

 

A good friend tells me that we think photography is for us, but really it’s for our children and their children. They will treasure those images.

 

In summary, I believe the bar for good wedding photography has been raised really high over the last 8 years due to fierce competition and education. I don’t see someone without training reaching this bar regardless of the equipment.

 

The value of photography is a subject for each bride and family to determine.