17 and leica wanting

[joseph_ho]

i'm 17, just graduated from high school, and shoot 2-300 rolls a year.

 

i have a pentax645n to call my own. in 35mm i've inherited an awsome

srt-101 system but that is breaking down left and right as of the past

several months. i shot hundreds of rolls through my dad's AF minolta

system for my HS yearbook. mostly through the 80-200 2.8. i also own a

fuji 4900 digital that now has issues with several exposure modes and

its SM drive.

 

i'm interested in a new camera that i can grow into like i started to

do with the srt-101's. i pretty much landed on the leica M. here is

where it gets complicated.

 

a fully battery independent shutter at all speeds is important to me

as a replacement to the srt-101. M6

i want a brass camera not zinc so that 50yrs from now when i'm 70, the

camera will have brass corners below the black , not a dull gray. M7

i really like the coated veiwfinders M7

a readout in the VF and auto diming lights would be an asset for me M7

it seems as though the DX reader only gets in the way of things, don't

need it, don't want it. M6

i would like A priority but 2 sec. of power up will make me shoot

myself after throwing the camera against a wall M6

 

relatively speaking, it matters little weather i get this thing now or

5 years from now. maybe the M8 will put it together for me? would it

be difficult to incorporate a system similar to that used in the nikon

fm3a where there is a battery independent shutter for all speeds, A

priority, and no power up time? the coated VF and auto dimming readout

should still be around but the brass seems to come and go. are the

chances hight that the next will be even more dependent on battery

power? when will we all know for sure? any guess?

[robert_landrigan]

Well, you've got a few options, here. On ething to keep in mind is

that the M6 has zinc or magnesium top plates, i believe, rather

than brass. Only a few special black paint collector series

models have the brass top decks like the older M's...so I'd not

based any buying decisions based on that.

 

The M6 is a great camera - if your budget allows it. I wouldn't go

for the older models, as the lack of a meter in camera can be a

real hassle. If you are looking at waiting a few years...well, new

leica bodies come out VERY slowly, so make that 10 years,

maybe 15-20, before a M8. You may want to look at a

replacement SRT body and get your feet wet with a used Bessa

R untill the kinks w/ the M7 get ironed out.Sure, the R isn't

anywhere near a Leica, but it will get you into the RF shooting

mode and let you figure out what you use to decide if you want an

M6 or if M7 is more your style.

[frank_bunnik]

If you really want a leica M, get one.

 

But don't complain aboat it's shortcomings like focussing problems because of flare in the viewfinder as you get with the M6 & 7. Also, don't complain about fill-in flash problems because of the outdated 1/50th of a second synch. speed, or about problems regarding the ridiculous topspeed of 1/1000th of a second.

 

I always keep coming back to an article published a couple of years ago in a Dutch magazine in which the well known Erwin Puts compared the R7 with the F3 and 4 of the same lenses of each brand. As it turned out, Mr Puts was not able to see any real difference in imagequality between two identical slides, one made with leica, the other with Nikon. Same goes for a wellknown German wildlife photographer who, together with a Leica using collegue went to East Africa to photograph leopards for a book. As it turned out, they were also not able to see any different imagequality in the resulting slides.

 

In the 1960's and 1970's Leica optics were state of the art. No doubt about that. They are still excellent. However, the difference between modern Leica optics and those of Nikon or Canon is nowhere near as big as the Leica company, Erwin Puts or other Leica fanatics want you to believe.

 

What is not clear to me is what you write about the state of the camera you want it to be in 70 years from now.

 

I do not know for what kind of pictures you intent to use the Leica. Landscape pictures will look better in medium format. The well known mountain photographer Galen Rowell uses Nikon (take a look at www.mountainlight.com). So does Steve McCurry for his reportage photography. Reza uses Canon eos, as well as Leica M. You will probably not want to use it for wildlife photography, that would be rather stupid, but Frans Lanting also uses Nikon. Sure there are other professionals who do uses Leica exclusively, but are their pictures really better then those of the formentioned ones?

 

If I were you I would stick with the 645N. Invest in optics for that camera. They are in no way worse than Leica optics. The imagequality you get with a good medium format camera like the 645N will always be better then that taken with a 35mm camera. The 645N is very well suited for reportage, portrait and landscapephotography.

 

Good luck, Frank

[fotografz]

IF this posting is for real ( ????), then we have quite a dedicated

young photographer here. However, Joseph' you're getting hung

up on minutia that shouldn't be clouding your judgement at your

tender age. Forget about all the endless haggling that gets

debated on this forum. Brass verses Zink, flare /no flare, etc. in

50 years it'll all be a mute point, and todays' latest.greatest

cameras will be quaint conversation items for display only. If you

want to utilize the unique characteristics of the M camera for your

work then get a used M6 TTL or Classic which DO NOT require 2

seconds to power up ( that's the M7 ), are fully operational even if

the meter battery dies, and can be had recently at a more

reasonable price ( at 17 I would've never had that kind of money).

I don't agree that your Pentax will do the same thing. If it did,

Leica wouldn't still be in business. If you're for real ( I have my

doubts ) then the best of luck on your photographic endeavors.

[karl_yik1]

Wow! I had a Ricoh p&S when I was 17 ;] I would get a well used M6 for a decent price and spend the rest of the best lenses. I think the orig Leitz M6 were brass top plates (maybe wrong), but I am sure I have seen some standard brassed M6s.

[joseph_ho]

i'm for real. yes, i am a dedicated photographer. yes i have exhibited internationally. yes i have guest lectured on the use of studio lighting at my high school in the advanced photography class. yes, i'm sorry i don't have close access to a film scanner so i am unable to show you what i consider my best work.

 

i want a camera i can grow into. worry about cost after i decide what i really want. if i cant get it, then i won't. if i can, then i will. i won't take a substitute. i think i can pull of an M and summilux with some time to get it all together. realisticly though, it wouldn't hurt to wait till i have my own job 5 years later.

 

let me clear up the concern of construction. i am not concerned about the durability of either casing be it brass or zinc. what i do want is a nice brassed look as the black comes off the corners after several years.

 

this camera is to fill a gap left by returning the minolta AF system to daddy before i move away and the srt-101 becoming rather unreliable. i will soon have no 35mm camera other than my GR-1. there are places i would not bring a 645 even though i love it so much. simply get too much attention; makes me start feeling really awkward like everyone wants to steal my camera. for basicly, i use that camera for landscapes and indoor work, never on the street.

[travis1]

if u r serious, just get a m4, m3 and m6. Use them till u r 100.

[patricks]

dude, I would worry less about the look/brassing on your body and more about the outcome/results. but then again, it is good to have goals when one is young.

 

A Leica M-series camera is a near perfect tool for travel photography, photojournalism, available/low light candids, street shooting etc. It is not a great/easy to use allround camera like a AF SLR.

 

I suggest you rent/borrow a M6TTL/M7 for a couple of weeks to see if you like the tool and this type of photography.

 

If you indeed do, a Leica rangefinder camera can be a trusted and reliable camera for decades to come.

 

good luck,

 

pat

[james_elwing]

Get your SRT 101 fully serviced, or buy one in good condition, why not buy two dinosaurs, they should now be cheap as chips like Pentax Spotmatics.

Then

Buy the cheapest smooth working M you can, preferably horrifically worn so you can save some time; maybe M3 double wind with MR meter or M4-2 ditto, or an early M6; with a Summicron 50, then look at modest wide angles & a 90. Assuming lenses are clean and made for M bayonet.

It doesn't really matter. What you get from an M is a quiet shutter, focussing accuracy, a warm glow and unearned credibility

[ralph_barker]

I'm sorry, Joseph, you can't have a Leica.

 

Leicas are reserved for the over-30 crowd, and dealers have strict rules about these things. You might, however, be able to purchase one from an unscrupulous e-Bay seller who has no direct affiliation with Leica AG and doesn't understand the rules. ;-)

 

Should you take the cloak-and-dagger path to acquiring a Leica, you should recognize that Leica is what it is, and is quite unapologetic about it. Each model of the Leica has features that endear it to certain Leica enthusiasts, but not to others. No Leica, however, should be expected to have features that are common on other mainstream brands. Leica usage is an acquired state of mind, and has little relationship to the features that the uninitiated would deem important. The best approach here is simply to "get over it".

 

As to those who suggest that a Leica M is not appropriate for wildlife photography, I disagree. I can think of few things that would distinguish a wildlife photographer more than shooting lions, tigers, and bears with a 35mm 'Lux. Or better, an in-your-face 21mm Elmarit-M. It is simply a matter of recognizing the similarity between wildlife photography and street photography. While lions, tigers, and bears have claws, street people have last night's broken wine bottle. The reaction to being photographed up close, however, is strikingly similar.

 

Thus, my suggestion, should you be determined to break the rules, would be to acquire an older M3 from an unknowing e-Bay seller, and learn the ways of the Leica Jedi. As your Leica skills grow, you can select an appropriate auxiliary Leica to round out your kit. But, don't worry about sync speed - flash is for wimps who have no force.

[greg_mason]

joseph:

 

if you want to get serious about photography you will need to learn how to use a hand meter. pick up a well used m3 or m2 have it CLA'd and start shooting. you can slowly collect lenses as you go and then when your finaces dictate you can pickup the body of your choice.

 

another reccomendation would be to pick up a leicaflex sl and stay with an slr. again you can slowly pick up lenses, and eventually buy the body you want. leica is not a company that believes in a lot of automation, just simple cameras that last. if you want the latest electronics there are better choices.

 

good luck

 

greg

[jay_.]

Joseph, I inherited 2 used Leica screwmounts when I was 13, one of them was made in 1937. In 1970 I bought a demo M4. All of these have brass top plates. All of them have been used a lot. None of them has a hint of brass showing yet. Only the black-paint-over-brass will do that quickly. So my advice is not to obsess on that point. Besides, although I know that at 17 it's common to think more about what you want to happen next week or 50 years from now than what's happening at this moment, but life is all about the journey, not the destination. Take it from someone who turned 17 just yesterday, and woke up this morning 30 years later.

[james_.1]

Are you sure you really want aperture priority? Maybe later, but an M6 would probably fulfill your needs right now. A built in light meter for me is a must. I use a gray card once or a gray-like area to meter on, and stick with the settings unless lighting or aperture changes. I think you'd be happy to start out with a 35mm lens, the summilux if you can swing it. Adding a tele later would be good too, maybe the 75 lux or 90 cron. Leica for the 30 and over crowd? Heck no hehehe, I'm still in my 20's, but probably a lot of Leica users are older, due to finances and taste.

 

Anyway, take the plunge, get yourself the M6 and 35 lux. It'll be compact and allow you to snap away at slower shutter speeds. f/1.4 speed will open more possibilities. Good luck...

[joseph_ho]

thanks for the insight on the lack of brassing excepton black paint finishes

 

because the SRT-101 meters are messed up and unreliable, i have been shooting a lot of shots with a handheld meter lately. i establish a base reading as i walk into a situation and put the meter away. i eyeball it and compensate from there. when i do check back, i'm usually still pretty close. plenty accurate for BW film. i can work that way but rather have a metering camera. A-priority would be nice as long as it stays out of the way when i don't want it.

 

the fact that the M is a rangefinder does not bother me at all. i've handled a few and i think its no big challenge. i have plenty of time to get used to it once i get it.

 

i never mentioned the flash sync issue but you guys have on a few posts. i don't see it as a big deal. the SRT-101 synced at 1/60 ans so does the 645n. 1/50 is not a lot slower. i do like to do a lot of flash work with my 54-mz3 but not fill flash type stuff. i do lots and lots of bouncing as well as backlit stuff.

 

i know leica isn't for techies but things like auto dimming lights sound like they would make the camera more enjoyable to use. esp in availible dark shooting.

 

oh, yea

the srt will stick around for macro and other things i might need it for. i don't feel like having repairs made because they have been attempted before and almost always resurface. other than that, there are just too many problems to make it senseable.

 

1-flash socket intermittent failure

2-sticky stop on the standard lens

3-intermittent slow second curtain ar slow shutter speeds

4-one meter is misaligned, the other doesn't work at all

5-back does not align properly when closing

list goes on....basicly, i'm ready to dump it for a new system rather than deal with it surprising me every week.

[robert_landrigan]

Get the M6 classic - esp. if you're waiting for a bit - the M6's from

the pre-TTL days will be a reasonable price, and the glasss will

always be obscene. Shrug. If you're getting sick of teh SRT's and

don't want to get anothe rbodie(which can be just buying a new

set of troubles) You may want to consider getting a modern AF kit

to compliment the M. My normal bag is a M6 w/ the 28 or 50

mounted, an Canon EOS A2 w/ the USM 85

1.8(gorgeouslovelyblahblablah), and a decrepit EOS 650 with a

manual Nikkor 35. The EOS gear lens me grab what I might

otherwise miss w/ the M6, and a cheaper AF body + 50mm

combo wouldn't cut too much into your M savings fund(and might

save you the insanity of having to beat someone's brains in with

a dead SRT. Although my 201 could do just that...)

[Aoresteen]

Joseph,

 

Good luck in your effors. If you want a black & brass look get a beater Nikon F off of ebay with a plain prism and have Pete Smith, Fotocamera Repair Inc, 3095 South Military Trail, Lake Worth, FL 33463 service it. Gte a 35mm f/2 Nikkor and the 85 f/1.8 and you are in business.

 

Consider getting a Leica IIIf RD and having DAG service it. The CV lenes will do you very well and both the Nikon & the IIIf will still be working when you are 90.

 

Invest in a good handheld meter like the Sekonic L508. Then TTL meters aren't so important.

[andy_wagner2]

Ah Joseph What I wouldn't give to be your age again. I started in with Leica at about the same age 35 years ago. The questions you have are mostly what any photg would ask. The only person who can answer them is you. Forget the cosmetics, decide on what is important as far as function is concerned. Both the 6 and 7 have strong points going for them, you must decide what you need. As far as zinc or brass in thirty years it won't matter because most of the cameras will be plastic anways. Mabe a less expensive way to get into Leica Rf's is used M3, M4 etc. These are still out there going strong. good shooting and keep us informed as to your progress and decisions I'm sure all of us old farts could use views of a new kid Good Luck!! P.S. I've still got and use my original Leica.

[david www.davidazia.com]

I got my Leica M6TTL back in November last year - when I was 18. Although ridiculously expensive, I do think that it was worth it. However, if you're planning on buying a camera don't be concerned about its aesthetic aspect. A camera is just a tool.

 

Using a Leica M is adopting a photographic style, because you can't use zoom lenses or long focal lengths - and there is no doubt that only someone who is passionate about his work and ready to make an effort can take good photographs with such a camera. Also, the fact that you don't see through the lens has a big effect on composition.

 

A Leica M is wonderful to use, its sheer simplicity makes it intuitive and allows for carefree photography. What you see is what you get.

 

It makes me laugh when I'm using my M6 and the other photographers are walking around with their big SLRs and 70-200 zoom lenses, obviously weighed down in equipment. The Leica M is definately a piece of equipment you don't mind taking everywhere with you.