New to Nude...Advice Plz

[mikepalo]

Ok here is the deal as anyone who looks at my profile can see i have VERY limited experience with photographing

people. I shoot mainly wildlife/landscapes. But I have a friend who has been to professional studio's before and

says they always make her look like a static doll when they try and shoot her, I'm familiar with that "style" of

portrait photography, I hate it actually, but that's a whole 'nother issue. She has requested that I photograph

her. So I am looking for first any advice people would be willing to give about photographing people in a very

natural setting (no studio/available light and pop flash only/etc) Also well as to make my life even more

difficult she is extremely interested in shooting a number of nude shots. I want to do her justice, and I dont

want the shots to come out looking like a series of raunchy porn shots(I know there is a VERY fine line between

art/porn). So I was wondering also if there is any advice out there to be had to photographing a woman nude? Any

tidbits of information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for your time.

<p>

<p>

-Michael Palozzola

[carnagex_carnagex]

Info here on photo.net: </p> <p> http://www.photo.net/learn/nudes/ </p> <p>

Other forum: </p> <p>

http://www.garageglamour.com/forums/ </p> <p>

Other links: </p> <p>

http://photocritic.org/act-nude-photography/ </p> <p>

http://prettygirlshooter.blogspot.com/

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Unless you plan on taking her outdoors and shooting her like some of your wildlife images you'll need to work on your lighting skills. Suggest that you learn/understand short, broad, butterfly, and flat lighting for people wearing clothes and get that down before you venture into nudes. It's almost all in the lighting and people rarely look good naked.

 

Sounds like a good time though.......oh, to be young again :-)

[mikepalo]

Well she does want something ...natural in lighting...the only problem is beign in S.Fl...there is NO where I could take her outside lol

[kelly_flanigan1]

Shoot the nude scenes first; then clothed/bikini ones. Then one doesnt get those clothing marks on her bum; back and chest.

[mattbuser]

I am no nude photographer, but since you are into the marine thing, a suggestion might be nude in the

water. Just a thought. Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[bluphoto]

That line you're talking about is actually a lot fatter than you'd think.

 

You could shoot ankles behind legs and it would be art to many, conversely showing a knee crosses the line to many others!

 

Like everything in business and art, you need first to establish your target audience - and also establish how much you care about their opinion (a tip here, it often helps if you do care, at least a bit). If you're going to be publishing to the art world, then that line will be more towards the risque side. If your target audience is the general public (in my case in the UK) then I find it easier to find an "average" well-balanced person whose views I already know. My mum.

 

If you're in the studio, but don't have much experience with lighting, then start with one light. An added bonus of this is that it leaves a lot in shadow, making it a lot easier to stay away from that line you're talking about. Actually, you might be better starting with NO lights, and use a large net-covered (or thin white paper covered) window as a light source. That can be very flattering indeed.

 

I'd love to do the nude in water thing, but here in Scotland the model would end up with Hypothermia in a matter of seconds!

[bluphoto]

PS, if you're using window light to shoot with, then I find it often helps if you shoot during the day;)

 

best of luck, but remember, it's only as big a deal as you make it yourself!

 

Guy

[nathan_stiles]

I disagree w/ Guy... that line is razor thin. Sure, you can look at some of Peter Hengre's art, and if you described

them verbally it would sound like porn to some, but obviously it would be art to many who buy his books (or porn to

those who pay for his website-- see how razor thin). On the other hand, I've seen lingerie shots "gone bad" where it

just came off super sleazy and it was b/c of poor execution. And sadly that last example is from personal

experience, where I was not going for porn or skank. Live and learn.

 

My advice, that you'll ignore-- don't do the nudes.

 

Frankly, you are not ready to produce anything that doesn't seem amaturish and trashy. Shoot some glamour shots

in shorts, a t-shirt, bikini, whatever. Get both the feel for shooting people in natural light, and the spot where you are

shooting so you know how to not get in trouble-- would suck to be arrested b/c you didn't know the Boy Scout troop

was making their rounds through your nude shoot.

 

If you are shooting w/ a pop up flash, use fill flash-- here's a big discussion on the pros and cons of said flash...

http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00QDkH

 

also related...

http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00PoTy

 

 

Enjoy,

Nathan

[bluphoto]

Yes it's thin for any one individual, but for society as a whole all those thin lines make up a band the width of...umm... a very wide thing. Maybe rather than saying how thick or thin the line is, we should say that it's in a different place for different people, and the thikness of the band depends on how big your audience is.

 

You have the option of producing something which is so artistically "safe" and which could not possibly be offensive to anyone (which someone entering the field is relatively unlikely to do), or your other option is to move the scale which will be more interesting to some, and for the same reaon be more offensive to others.

 

Of couse, poor execution means that you'll find it harder to place that line where you want it. With experience this will become less "Russian Roulette" and more professional darts (occasionally someone still drops the dart!)

 

Bottom line is that if this is a friend of yours, then who better to learn from? Maybe you're not ready for nudes yet, but in all honesty I'd say nudes are easier to shoot than fashion, for example. You have a lot less to worry about.

 

Sure, I've only had a couple of nude shoots myself, but one thing I learned within the first half hour is they're not nearly as scary as I thought they would be.

 

One point I might suggest (hopefully wothout causing any offense - certailny none is intended) is that if several professional photographers can't get rid of the static look in your friend, then maybe she too needs more time in front of the camera, and who better for that than you!

 

The critical piece of advice I heeded (thankfully) from these very forums, was that my first nude shoot should be with a professional paid model. During the shoot, the model put me at ease and acted so professionally and naturally that I had no worries whatsoever. It is esential that both parties are relaxed and that's not just when shooting nudes. The strangest thing was that the shots where the model wore a bikini or other lingerie were worse than those in which she was nude. I find it far harder to make a bikini shot look tasteful than a nude.

 

As an alternative to this, you and your friend could get together and work towards developing both of your skills until you are both relaxed. You can explain that in the beginning you can expect little or no good results, and that indeed many will look untasteful. Both of you can use these images and learn from them. (and have a good laugh about some of them too). Both of you should realise that some of your pictures will cross that line, wherever you decide to put it. You should both accept that and simply not use them, or delete them as you wish, don't be ashamed of them. Work as a team.

 

If your friend wants to shoot nude, then it's obvious that she is not shy about her body. You should use that to your advantage and get as much time in the studio as you can.

 

I'm not saying you need to shoot nude straight away, but in my ulta-limited experience there's absolutely no reason not to. It's all about your state of mind.

 

Another huge bonus to me was the massive resource here on the PN gallery. For inspiration, lighting technique, posing ideas, props, time of day etc I gained so much from here - certainly more than I could have gleaned from any college course without a similar resource.

 

Spend time browsing the nudes (and portraits) here. Don't be ashamed or embarrassed and involve your partner, wife, girlfriend etc, or the model herself.

 

Shoot for the stars and you may fall short, but you will still get further than if you aimed at your feet.

[mikepalo]

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far... Ok firstly some broad stuff i have failed to mention or make

clear, just so people don't waste their time:

<br>I have No studio :( ,

<br>I do not have any lighting other then the pop flash and any natural light we can work with (thank god she

wants as much natural light as possible :) )

<br>The worst part of it all ...I don't have the money to buy the equipment I honestly should probably be using

for this right now :(

<p>But luckily I have sat down with her and spoken to her a little more about what she wants after reading

through a lot of threads and looking at a lot o pics here on the site. And the line should be much easier to "stay

away from" then I previously thought. One thread mentioned if ur working with a model you know. To study them a

bit before you even pick up a camera. To figure out exactly what makes them attractive what are their strong

points physically/facially/emotionally and to focus on those features in the shots. Her favorite physical

features are her neck/back/butt, suddenly with that in mind shots are seeming to pop into my head that could work

very easily which would be much less risque.

<p><b>Kelly</b> Thank you I appreciate that small tidbit being as what I mentioned with her back/buttox being

something that will most likely be in the shots I will let her know of anything we can do to avoid lines :)

<p><b>Matt</b> I will bring that up to her but Im not sure how comfortable she would be doing something in the

water, as anyone who has worked in water knows...It is a VERY hard medium to work with. (also seeing as neither

of us have a personal pool that leaves us in the ocean or in public again lol)

<p><b>Guy</b> I do understand what u are saying about the line being wider depending on ur audience, but at the

same time since these are shots at her request I believe she will be the one deciding the audience and I just

don't want the shots to come out raunchy looking. I would like to really do her justice. And I know that wont

necessarily happen the first time. And I told her that. I have let her know how limited my experience is with

people and told her id be willing to work with her if she was willing to work with my learning curve.<br>Also

seeing how I do not have a studio to work with most likely we will have to work in either her apartment or mine.

So I will keep the paper over the window DURING THE DAY...in mind because I have seen that form of lighting

before and I do like that.

<p><b>Nathan</b> Honestly I agree with you I'm not ready to shoot the nudes yet. I have already told her that I

do want to do a few Bikini and Clothed shots first so we can learn to work with each other and learn how each

other work and what each is going to want. The getting arrested pt is a good pt I will keep that one in mind

because I hadn't even thought o that one. I was thinking worst case scinario we get thrown outta somewhere like

the beach

<p><b>Guy...again</b> I would place her more as an acquaintance whom I am fond of, which presents its own set of

problems. I mean I can keep things professional that's not a problem, But I do not want to disappoint her. I mean

as I said she does know my limited experience with people, she has seen my photographs and knows my preferred

subject but still I want to do her justice<br>Also the static thing I believe comes from the fact that she

doesn't like the .......tilt ur head 3 degrees to the right now move ur hand 4 inches to the left. She is a very

mobile, flowly, active person. So I think the stoic locked in positions are what bothers her, and therefore, with

her being uncomfortable, she then tenses up and pictures resulting look very ........whats the word...well u know

what im going for.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

If you want to work outside, you'll still need to understand how to modify light....here's a start: http://www.photovisionvideo.com/store/shop.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=P&Product_Code=LLT028&Category_Code=DVD

[mikepalo]

I appreciate that David but as I mentioned earlier I don't have the cash to be buying any new equip(or learning products) right now. If there would be a site you could direct me to where I could read up on the modifications to light you are talking about, Id appreciate it greatly :)

[johnmarkpainter]

Can you find a rooftop?

 

Building a 'tent' using white sheets and/or white shower curtain material is great for diffusing the Sun.

You need to have reflectors....an assistant to hold reflectors is nice but it causes you to have another person around which

can be distracting.

[mikepalo]

Also to add another question on top of the pile. She is rather pale skinned, I'm not talking Irish Pale or Never seen daylight pale, but she says her skin blows out in sunlight really easy from previous experience. Any suggestions for that? Just stick to the golden hours?

<p><p>

<b>John</b>A roof top could be doable...a flat roof top is a WHOLE 'nother story tho. Are u saying build a tent on the rooftop? or was that another train o thought? I understand the need for reflectors but the other person im not sure who she'd be comfortable with there if anyone....

[nathan_stiles]

Michael, all skin blows out the daylight-- even african skin. It's a contrast issue, not a skin tone issue. See the fill flash links I provided above. Else you need to block a direct sunlight. The diffusion John spoke of is one way. The other is to use a white to get a key light, while another wall blocks the sun's direct path. Then you can use a combonation of all three: fill flash, diffusion, wall bounce. =)

 

Oh... if you are going to do a tent, you are going to want sandbags. The wind loves that stuff.

[robertfarnham]

Hi Michael, do you have a tripod? If yes, you can use it along with available light - lamps, windows, skylights,

flashlights etc - to create a lot of interesting images of her. That way you can experiment with private indoor settings

rather than risking the outdoors.

<br><br>

She doesn't want to look static...so open up your shutter for a second or two and let her move through the frame.

<br><br>

Maybe I should back up. Are you looking to shoot a glamour shot or an art nude? There's a big difference form a

photographer perspective. When I shoot glamour I have to focus on her face - get the right smile the right eye

contact etc. When I shoot art/figure nudes I look at the entire frame and the shapes in it. Very different shooting

experiences with very different results. Personally I prefer shooting the figure nude because the photo becomes

about the form and flow and shape and not about the woman. Glamour nudes are about the woman and the aura

she can present. It's very difficult for models to pull off glamour nudes well, and as a photographer, you're relying on

her 100% once you have your setting/framing and light figured out.

<br><br>

You say her favourite features are neck/back/butt...you can do a lot with those parts with only the light from a lamp

or a window.

<br><br>

Good luck!

[stan_jacox]

Michael

I am a relative newcomer, having just gotten back into photography in the last few months with my first DSLR after a 25 year absence. I used to shoot 35mm and had experience with fashion work. My first overall impression is to suggesting passing on the assignment. Although she wants nature light, she probably means "natural looking" light, something quite different than just using what it there. Natural light does not look natural at all on film/digital.

My main concern is your reluctance and apprehension concerning nude imaging. From my past experience working with models, both professional and amateur, the positive feelings towards the model and the project is more important any other aspect of the session. She has to feel very relaxed, comfortable and confident in you to really shine in photographs. Can you guide her towards that while keeping the mood light and exciting to her? Is it part of your personality? Most of us can't, it is a gift and and a skill in equal measures. The difference in a technically competent shot and one that really grabs your attention and sense of awe probably can't be traced to Any piece of equipment or environment, it is the people involved and their relationship during the session. Obviously you feel more comfortable with nature and wildlife photography, and that will come out in your output, just as your ambivalence towards nudes will come out in the finished images. If she does not come to realize this is your final dream in life, to shoot her as the most exciting and beautiful creature on earth, you might just as well take only a P&S so here are justifiable excuses.

I used to be recording engineer and producer and found the same type of relationship of emotional bonding and confidence between singers and producers as photographers and models, and in fact several very well known albums had my amateur photographs as cover art simply because the artist assumed that confidence extended into other fields other than recording.and insisted on me doing their art work.

Before picking up a camera, if you do the session, you really need to plan the session. What is it for, who is the audience, what message is desired to be perceived by the audience and such as the first step, than plan the theme and set/environment. Have a proper makeup artist there. Even if it is supposed to be a casual nude, rather than art or glamour, a skilled makeup artist will help a great deal in helping fool the audience into thinking the shots are natural. To look as good on 2d image display as a subject would look in person requires a little trickery, with shadows(our eyes have higher dynamic range so we perceive physical object, particularly human bodies very differently live versus on paper) or screen, color, (again, paper and screens do not produce the same responses to our senses as in person), etc.

Plan your lighting well in advance of the subject model arriving, fiddling with lights, reflectors, filters stands etc and making them wait will increase their nervousness. Have it ready. If needed, take test shots of a mannequin before the model arrives so you know what to expect. Get the flash off the camera if possible, using remote cable adapters or wireless slaves so the light can come from the optimum direction and of the correct color balance and intensity. If outdoors planning the shoot in advance allows using that special light condition that is short lived at dusk or dawn. Dawn is great because fewer people are out so more locations become available for nudes.

But the details are all determined by the intent of the photos and the audience so have the "production meeting" far enough in advance to figure out and experiment with ways of pulling it off with the least equipment and people. The makeup artist, if a pro type, will be a useful assistant with lighting, for example holding a reflector, so only 3 people need to be involved; the model, makeup and you.

Good luck Michael

[nogub]

Tell the model to use comfortable underwear, I mean that it isn't too tight so there will be no red lines from the underwear in their skin. If the model is a girl, tell her to put ice in her nipple for some minutes before the photo shoot so they are better looking.

 

Good Luck

[brucewilliams]

Something I didn't see mentioned, the model is not an object, she, in this case is a human. She has a notion of what she would like to see. Ask her what she has in mind, let her guide the session. If you direct too much it will be 'your' picture. Relax, work between an artist and model is always a collaborative effort, its your job to get the exposure and technical aspects correct, perhaps the setting but a model has to know herself for the picture to work. One other thing, get busy shooting, every different way you can, any subject. Lighting etc has to be learned by experience to look effortless. A nude is only a person without clothes, it doesn't change who the person is inside.