T90 and 430EX

[Farkle-Mpls]

Hello.

 

Searching the photo.net archives, I find a lot of postings validating that the modern EX-series Speedlites work with the T90 by reverting to

TTL mode. I've also read the corresponding chapters in the T90 manual of flash use but that speaks of little other than the 300TL. What I

have not found is how to set the camera to use other TTL flashes.

 

Here's my specific example: I just bought my first T90. I love it. I've shot F-1Ns for a long time and I appreciate the electronic aids in

metering and -- wow -- TTL flash support! I hooked my 430EX to the camera, powered them both on and, sure enough, the flash switches

to TTL mode. Great.

 

The camera is set to "Program" and spot metering (I've tried other metering/program combinations). I have an 85mm/F1.8 lens mounted

with 100 ASA film. The lens aperture ring is set on "A" and no M indicator is on in the viewfinder, validating the lens aperture setting for

Auto. Inside the T90s viewfinder, I get the expected 1/90s shutter speed but 1.8 is blinking. The "flash ready" indicator is on. Checking

the manual (p92), the blinking aperture reading of 1.8 indicates underexposure. Same deal on Av and Tv, which I can understand since I'd

expect it to revert to a fill flash at that point and meter for ambient lighting conditions (it is reasonably dark in the room so an

underexposure warning would be appropriate).

 

I'm not "getting it" in terms of the camera settings. There are very few flash settings I can tweak so my options on the 430EX are limited.

 

Any help would be appreciated. While you're at it, if you have insights into settings on the T90 to support fill flash, please let me know

what they are. I have some assumptions but those don't seem to be too correct lately so I'll defer to your (collective) experiences.

 

Thanks in advance.

[bsharpe411]

I've been using my T90 / 300TL system for about 2 years now and I'm still somewhere on the learning curve between setting everything to auto/program mode and getting to the FEL / multi-spot metered flash. Coincidentally I also have the predecesor to your speedlite...the 420EX, which I use on my XTi. I've never tried to "co-mingle" the two for fear of burning out something either on the flash or the camera. I doubt that you'll find much on the topic, since the T90 predates the 430EX by so many years.

 

IMHO, I'd suggest looking for a 300TL speedlite on one of the auction sites, and have a pair that literally was made for each other. I've seen the units selling for less than $50, and that to me is worth saving all the frustration, and possible lost shots with the arrangement you're trying.

[Farkle-Mpls]

Thanks Bob. I have a Canon 199A which will work and a couple (lower voltage) Vivitar 283s but why I'm attempting to use

the 430EX is simply because I want to use/own fewer flashes, not more. Plus, it OUGHT TO work! ;^)

 

So ... part of this is curiosity-motivated and knowing the nature of people monitoring these forums, I have to think that

someone has tried to crack this nut already (hopefully, with success!)

 

Thank you for the advice though. I will keep an eye open for a good 300TL "just in case". Heck, I can use a fifth flash!

[Giovanni Cappai]

I believe it can only be used in manual mode. Set the shutter in 1/250 or less and an appropriate aperture (e.g. f/8.0) off A on the lens and fire. The exposure will be correct (I think!).

[rwbowman]

Some of these questions, especially those pertinent to the T90, are addressed in the "Speedlite Reference Guide," a 75-

page technical booklet published by Canon in 1991, and written by Chuck Westfall.

 

The Guide is extremely thorough, although of course limited to Canon equipment of the era--the T90 being the only FD

camera covered--along with the EOS 620, 630, 650, 700, 750, 850, Rebel, RT, 10S, and 1. Speedlites covered are the

160E, 200E, 300EZ, 420EZ, 430EZ, ML-2, ML-3, and 300TL, as well as the built in flashes of the EOS 700, 750, and

10S. A wide range of flash accessories are also covered, such as Off-Camera Shoe Cord, TTL adapters, etc.

 

Specifications and compatibility for all the equipment listed are included, along with chapters covering techniques for

using Speedlites in a variety of situations. And much, much more.

 

I don't think the booklet is still available from Canon, but certainly Chuck Westfall would know. Perhaps someone in our

forum knows how to contact him. Also, the book might be available on auction or used book websites. It is worth

having.

 

Hope this helps.

[rwbowman]

Here's something from the Canon "Speedlite Reference Guide" that might be pertinent, but just be aware that the Speedlite

space at the time of publication (1991) included only the 160E, 200E, 300EZ, 420EZ, 430EZ, ML-2, ML-3, and 300TL:

 

"T90: The T90 is the only camera that is recommended for use with the 300TL Speedlite and the Macro Ring Lite ML-2."

 

"The T90 can be used in all camera exposure modes with all Speedlites except the 160E & 200E. However, several

EOS Speedlite functions are not available with the T90. These are: Second Curtain Sync, Flash Exposure

Compensation (430EZ), AF Auxiliary Light, Auto Zoom (Manual Zoom is possible with the 430EZ & 420EZ), aperture

value and coupling range displays (430EZ & 420EZ"

[philip_wilson]

here is a document I have found useful - I didn't write it and cannot remember who did. this will help a lot.

 

 

Original ("simple") TTL works with a light sensor picking up light reflected from the entire frame of the film. The aperture and shutter speed are controlled by the camera and the light sensor just turns off the flash when it thinks the whole picture is exposed enough. The sensor only does it's job adjusting the flash during the exposure. If there's a lot of ambient light, which the sensor can't control, the picture will be overexposed.

<p>

The 300TL can use A-TTL (Advanced-TTL) or FEL (Flash Exposure Lock). Canon tells us A-TTL is easier while FEL gives more control.

<p>

In both A-TTL and FEL, the 300TL measures ambient light before the shutter opens and uses this measurement to decide how much flash to apply. If it's dark out, you'll get three times as much flash as if you're in daylight. This means you get a weaker fill-flash at daytime and a strong spotlight at night.

<p>

A-TTL and FEL act differently after this: A-TTL blinks out a pre- flash -- either infrared, if the 300TL is pointing straight ahead, or a weak (5%) white flash if its pointed toward the wall or the ceiling. The light sensor ON THE FLASH measures whatever bounces back so the flash knows how reflective your target is. The 300TL's light sensor measures an area of 14 degrees which equals the area of a 180mm lens or 30% of the area of a 50mm lens. TO ADJUST THE A-TTL POWER: Adjust the Exposure Compensation Index (the highlight / shadow buttons on the T90 next to your thumb) OR change the ISO setting to 'lie' to the T90 about what speed film you're using. Be careful, because doing either of these will also change the ambient light exposure.

<p>

FEL is different: To use FEL, press the spot meter button on the T90. This gets the ambient light reading I mentioned above. It also causes a 5% white flash to leap from the 300TL which is measured BY THE SPOT METER IN THE CAMERA (not reflected off the film) and stored for 30 seconds while you recompose the picture and shoot. This way, you can adjust the flash for only the bit of your target in the viewfinder's 'spot zone.' If 30 seconds is not enough time, you can retain the flash reading for more time by pressing the Exposure Preview button on the back of the camera.

<p>

Perhaps you are missing (as I sometimes do) the 'bad exposure' warnings you're getting. I'll cover the warnings the camera gives you and how to fix them for each mode:

<p>

FULL PROGRAM MODE / PROGRAM A-TTL: The "full program" modes do everything for you. You either 1) put the 300TL in "P" and lens to "A" or 2) put the 300TL in "Mode Set + A-TTL" and the camera in Program, or P. To quote the 1987 _Reference_Guide_, "There is no difference between Full Auto Mode and any kind of Program A-TTL." VIEWFINDER WARNING: Both speed and aperture blink (after the pre- flash) when you're out of range. SOLUTION: Move closer and pre- flash again until the blinking stops.

<p>

SHUTTER PRIORITY (Tv) AND APERTURE PRIORITY (Av) A-TTL: These modes give fill-flash, only. In Tv, set the speed from 30" to 1/250. In Av set the aperture. The viewfinder readings will be completely different from the program modes because now only the ambient light is being measured. The fill will be added later. VIEWFINDER WARNING 1: Speed OR aperture will blink if the ambient light is too little or too much for your camera settings. SOLUTION 1: Give up and either use Program A-TTL or put the camera in manual and pick your own settings. VIEWFINDER WARNING 2: Both displays will blink if the target is too far for your aperture. SOLUTION 2: Move closer or open the aperture. Or get a faster lens.

<p>

STOP-DOWN AE A-TTL (for lenses where you have to manually set the aperture): Adjust the aperture ring, set the camera to Program, P, or Av. The shutter will be set by the camera based only on ambient light. VIEWFINDER WARNING: Blinks if shutter speed must be outside the 30" - 1/250 range or if you're too far away. SOLUTION: Move closer or open the aperture. Or get a faster lens.

<p>

(After this, the viewfinder 'warnings' get more subtle. . .)

<p>

PROGRAM FEL: You set the 300TL to "Mode Set + FEL" and the T90 to Program or P. You aim at the "spot" you want to meter and press the spot button. The camera sets the aperture (based on the pre-flash) and speed (between 1/60 and 1/250.) Recompose and shoot. VIEWFINDER WARNING: The dot on the right edge of the spot metering scale must be at the same height as the triangle index marker. SOLUTION: If the dot is too high (nearly impossible) move further away from your subject. If the dot is too low, move closer.

<p>

Av FEL: An amazingly useful mode! Pick a good metering pattern to measure the available light. Put the spot meter zone over your main subject and press the spot button. VIEWFINDER WARNING / SOLUTION 1: If the dot is higher than the triangle move further away or close the aperture. If too high, get closer or open up a bit. Now you've got the correct flash exposure for your subject. Next, watch as the floating bar moves up and down between the dot and the triangle. If the bar is lined up with the triangle, too, the background will be correctly exposed. Your aperture controls the flash exposure and your shutter speed controls the ambient light exposure. To change the background (ambient) exposure, move the floating bar by adjusting the shutter speed with the Highlight and Shadow buttons. You can set the speed (displayed in the viewfinder) anywhere from 30" to 1/250. Also, you can fine-tune the flash exposure by changing the aperture with the input dial. This lets you tweak just the light on your subject.

<p>

Tv FEL: The 1987 _Guide_ tells us this mode is not very useful, unless you are switching between flash and ambient light for moving subjects. The same rules apply for the dot and the triangle but you have less control. The Highlight & Shadow buttons change both the ambient and the flash exposure, so don't bother with them. The input dial changes the background exposure by shifting the shutter speed. (The aperture balances automatically to keep the subject correctly exposed.) Doing another pre-flash will match the flash output to the new speed.

<p>

STOP-DOWN AE FEL: Set the camera to Program, P, or Av. Set the lens aperture manually and lock the stop-down lever on the camera. Pressing the spot button will lock in the correct flash for the spot zone in the viewfinder and set the correct shutter speed for the ambient light. Use the Highlight / Shadow buttons to adjust background lighting. Adjust flash exposure with aperture ring on the lens.

<p>

STOP-DOWN FIXED-INDEX FEL: This mode is where you pretend you're using a match-needle meter, as in an FTb or other, earlier Canon camera. Set the T90 to Tv but set the aperture manually with the lens ring. Lock in the stop-down lever. Take meter readings with a half-press of the shutter and you'll see the vertical viewfinder scale light up. At the bottom, the red LEDs will tell you to either open or close the aperture by displaying "OP" or "CL." This mode also lets you use that neat viewfinder scale to take readings in average or partial metering. That's normal SDFI. Now, we'll add the flash: Set the 300TL to FEL and press the spot button to get your pre-flash. The Highlight / Shadow buttons don't work now, so use the shutter speed to adjust ambient exposure. Now, the viewfinder LEDs say "HS" (Higher Speed) or "LS" (Lower Speed) if the backgound exposure needs fixing. The same old rules apply for the dot and triangle so you can see what you're doing when you adjust the subject (flash) lighting with the aperture ring. Make sure to correct the background exposure with the shutter speed when you do.

<p>

MANUAL CAMERA / SIMPLE TTL AUTOMATIC FLASH: (The last one!) This gets you control over BOTH speed and aperture AND automatic TTL falsh exposure. Set the flash to either A-TTL or FEL, the T90 to Tv, and pick a speed between 30" and 1/120. Take the lens ring off of "A" and set your aperture with it. First, measure the available light: either use a hand-held meter or just use the T90 by turning the flash OFF so it won't deactivate the camera's meter -- and remember to stay below 1/250. Change the shutter speed to lighten or darken the background. Raise the film ISO to underexpose the flash; lower the ISO to overexpose it. Be sure you stay within the numbers on the automatic distance range chart (the sticker that came with the 300TL). Be careful that lots of ambient light doesn't wash out your image. This isn't a great mode for daytime.

<p>

Three other "TTL Auto" Variations:

<p>

1) Same as above but camera in Program, P, or Av. Gives you TTL Auto at 1/250 speed, only.

<p>

2) Camera in Program, P, Av, Tv, or Stop-Down AE. Lens on "A" but under stop-down control. Flash in "Mode Set" but with none of the four mode buttons pushed in. The ambient light exposure will be set as if there was no flash but the flash exposure will be TTL Auto at the aperture in the viewfinder or on the lens. (In Program or P on the T90, your speeds can only go from 1/60 to 1/250.)

<p>

3) Camera in Program, P, Av, Tv, Stop-Down AE, or Stop-Down Fixed- Index. Lens on "A" but under stop-down control. Flash on FEL. Now, if you 'forget' to hit the spot button before you shoot, you'll get TTL Auto at the aperture in the viewfinder or on the lens.

 

the following site looks at strobe trigger voltages - since the 300TL and 420 EZ are both about 4V you should be Ok

 

www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

[Farkle-Mpls]

Whew (Philip!) ... that's a lot to read but thank you to everyone who contributed their ideas. I did burn through a roll (of the

new Ektar 100, which was sort of a waste but it was loaded in the T90 at the time) to test various ideas with the 430EX.

The results looked pretty washed out at full-power (distance = 7') so I reduced power and bracketed at 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and

1/16th. Anything below 1/8 looked better but still had a blue hue to it. There was only ambient outdoor lighting + flash

output. Don't understand the blue tint (outdoor shots were OK for color balance).

 

I will try to get the publication mentioned earlier too. Sounds like a good reference book to have. Just need to track one down ...

 

Cheers.

[feanolas1]

Hi Carl,

 

i don't think you can marry an EX flash with the T90, as most informations are provided digitally by EOS bodies to the EX flashes and vice-versa. The T90 speaks to the 300TL in analogic, via different voltage levels on various contacts, so I would expect only limited compatibility between EX and T90.

It would be a shame not to buy a 300TL, because the T90 only reveals its true face at flash photography with this single flash!

And they sell for rather cheap prices, so go for one of those!

[kader_nazef]

<p>Hello All.<br>

Me too, I have a problem using the Canon 300TL on my T90 camera. I'm just lost among all these ascronyms; ATTL, ETTL, TTL, FEL etc. I just want to use Fill flash with my 300TL. Let say I'm shooting a bird 30ft away at 1/500sec / F5.6 and want to add just a little bit of light. How to do that. I read the flash documention that just says "Fill flash possible" that's it. It does not say how. I read all the litterature, reference guide referenced above and nowhere. Thank you. Also, anyone has found a Flash extender (better beamer) that wil fit the canon 300TL. Thank you.</p>