Any advice? Possible low light wedding

[patty_h.]

Hello!

I am shooting an outdoor wedding on Nov. 22 at 5 but everyone knows that weddings never start on time so probably

5:30pm in Houston. I plan to use: a nikon d300, 70-200 mm f2.8 nikon lens, the sb800 flash and diffuser. Does

anybody have any advice as far as what seeting to use such as aperture priority, manual, auto and what about the

ISO? Also, do you guys think that it will be too dark?I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.

[picturesque]

Manual camera mode for utlimate control. You will need a wide to short tele zoom or a wide prime and normal prime. I can't imagine shooting an entire ceremony with a tele zoom, particularly on a crop sensor camera. Diffuser outside will not buy you much--there is nothing to bounce off--particularly using a long lens. Possibly just diffuse the flash slightly, but that's it, and you may be firing your flash off at full power needlessly. The ISO will be dependent upon just how dark it is, and just how high you are comfortable going. I would use flash and drag the shutter, being careful not to get ghosting or subject blur for the parts of the ceremony where people are moving, such as the processional. Otherwise, a tripod/monopod/high ISO and correct EV for the ambient light would be good. Yes, it will be too dark for anything but skillful use of high ISO both in shooting and post processing, or flash.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

My first piece of advice would be to read all the past threads covering: "Newcomers & First weddings" see the link on the right side of the forum page.

 

My 2nd piece of advice would be to revisit a thread that you've started, thank people for contributing to the thread and followup with any questions raised by your post.

[steve_c.5]

Patty, it's apparent to me that you're not really prepared to shoot this wedding, and I don't mean that to sound hurtful. I'm just trying to give you the straight talk.

 

First, if the 70-200 is the only lens you have (and it's an excellent long range lens), you're woefully unprepared. You'll need at least 1 or 2 wider angle lenses to cover the 18-70mm range, or you'll really be in trouble. I even like to use a superwide angle 10-20mm Sigma or similar range superwide zoom for tight quarters, dancing, scenic wide shots, etc.

 

Second, you must understand that we can't give you a simple answer on aperture priority, manual, auto, ISO, etc. because anywhere you shoot, the lighting varies constantly, and so do your subjects. For some subjects, you will want to use wider apertures for shallow depth of field, and with others you'll want smaller apertures for a broader depth of field. As lighting goes down, your ISO will need to come up, to increase the sensitivity of your camera's sensor. With this comes digital image grain, which is typically a negative thing.

 

Third, the time has now changed, giving you way less time after the ceremony to shoot formals of anybody in decent light. Without proper lighting, you may find yourself shooting in the dark, trying to light a large group with a single strobe and diffuser, and these pictures simply won't look very professional. Believe me, I've had to do it, and it was very hard. These brides who get married at dusk really have no idea of the problems it creates for their wedding photos, and for the person shooting them. I recommend that you work quickly, and if possible, shoot the formal shots in some location with decent lighting and pretty architecture. This may or may not be possible with the venue itself.

 

Please do yourself a favor and study past threads on this forum and learn all you can beforehand, and then if possible, take a patient friend out to the venue in the same lighting conditions beforehand, and practice. Get yourself some wider lenses even if you have to rent them or use the kit lens. The 70-200 will be great from the back of the ceremony, for tight ring/kiss shots at a distance, and for some couples portraits, but it's just too long of a lens to shoot the whole wedding with.

 

Good luck.

[pulpmojo]

I think Steve is right on, there is no straight forward answer anyone can give you for this question. I know my settings are usually all over the place throughout the night and I'm sure most people's here are as well. Very generally speaking then, once the sun goes down, you probably are going to have to stick with somewhat higher ISO's for most of the shots. How high will depend on how much noise you think will be acceptable for a given shot and how much (or how little) flash you'll have to use to get a properly exposed subject while at the same time keeping the background exposure at an acceptable level. And yes, it's going to be painfully dark by 5:30, if the wedding starts on time the ceremony should be okay as far as available lighting is concerned, but by the time you get to the formals it's going to get very tricky.

[stephen_kinosh]

Do you have backups for all your equipment? 2nd body, lens flash, batteries. If not, buy rent or boorow, but do NOT

go to the wedding without backups. Keep the 2nd camera ready with the shorter lens wo you donlt have to switch

lense in the middle of the service

[steve_c.5]

As Stephen says, backups of everything are essential. Batteries (plural, freshly charged) are critical. I carry multiple sets of freshly charged AA Nickel Metal Hydride batteries (kept numbered in groups of 4) for my flashes (plural). And, I carry an auxiliary battery pack that connects to my flashes which keeps them juiced up for fast recycles in fast action situations (like bouquet tosses). Four AA batteries by themselves in a flash unit cannot possibly recycle fast enough between flash bursts for some action.

 

If you're starting to realize that you don't have the gear or experience to do this wedding, it may be time to seek more direct help than we can provide here.

[savagesax]

It will be dark, sorry to say. A flash may not carry the length of a 300mm, yes 300mm's on a cropped camera, with defused light, unless you crank the ISO up a lot. I'm thinking 3200.

[david_garcia10]

A second body with 17-55 would come very handy... If you don't know what ISO to use for the wedding, I would suggest that you go an learn them quickly. Flash will come in very handy so make sure you ask the church if they allow flash... Good luck!

[douglas lee]

Question for Bob Bernardo - it is early and I am on my first cup of coffee -- how does a cropped sensor affect the flash?

FOV I understand, but it doesn't change the distance the light travels. What am I missing?

[steve_c.5]

To answer Douglas' question (because Bob probably isn't up yet, he's in California), a "crop sensor" camera like this has a magnification factor of around 1.6, so a lens that is set to 200mm on a regular 35mm full frame camera will be magnified, and acts more like 300mm. That magnification factor affects the lens no matter where you zoom it. So, Bob's point is that the flash doesn't have as much reach at 300mm on a crop sensor camera as it does at 200mm on a full frame camera, because the magnification gives the lens a longer zoom. Of course, this only applies when you rack it out all the way, and you probably would not do that on every shot. Did I sum it up right for you Bob?

[ben_cox1]

Just a quick note on the flash. I always thought that a 200mm lens is a 200mm lens regardless of what camera

you're using it on. But when using a 'crop sensor' camera the image output is simply a crop of what a 'normal'

full-frame camera would put out. So the flash output should be unchanged.

 

However, newer flashes and cameras (like your d300) zoom the flash to allow for the fact that only the middle of

the frame is actually output (ie the image is cropped). So the flash should, if anything, be of a higher power

when used with a crop-sensor camera. But this would obviously not work with a 200mm lens anyway, as the flash's

don't tend to zoom past 100mm. So the flash output would be unchanged.

 

Now about your wedding photography. If you're shooting as a guest then I wish you good luck - I love

photographing weddings and I hope you will too. However if you're shooting this as the 'professional

photographer' of the wedding, then the very nature of your questions suggests that maybe you're not yet ready to

be in such a position. If you feel this is true you should definitely tell the b&g so that no-one will be

disappointed.

[francie_baltazar]

I am from the houston area and it will be dark at 5:30 - you will not have any available natural light - I would suggest you check out the site to see what type of lighting they will be providing for the ceremony - I would strongly suggest you get ALL your formals complete prior to the wedding - I had this same issue this summer here with a late 8pm wedding - we did all formal ahead of time except for the B&G together -and they weren't so hot because it was just too dark... if you can get the couple together before the ceremony - do it... you will be overly challenged with the light... good luck...

[savagesax]

Steve you are right, I just woke up! Now I have to go vote. Anyway thanks for answering my post. You did well and I have nothing to add!

[steve_c.5]

Glad to help out!

[William Michael]

Well, with mostly all of the Weddings I have covered the Ceremony has begun on time, certainly not very many at all,

30 minutes late – but that is by the by.

 

The sun sets, Houston Texas 22nd Nov 2008 at 5:23pm, so depending upon the weather that day, and the local

geography and urban structures even at 5:00pm you will not be shooting in bright sunlight, and if you do get direct

sun it will most likely to light be dusky silhouettes or warm sidelights and Flash Fill.

 

Manual Mode gives you the greatest control and flexibility. Also note you most likely will be moving quickly to very

low EV and therefore need to have control over your flash exposure, as this will likely be the period where

Flash Fill changes quickly to Flash Key

 

Given the hypothetical nature of the question, I would likely use a bounce card rather than a diffuser, but the local

situation will dictate which will be more appropriate, even direct flash fill might be necessary if you have an harsh

backlit sunset.

 

Note that you might be devoid of Flash Fill power in the last bits of strong sunlight using

that FL lens, for anything more than tight H&S capture.

 

The 70 to 20 on an APS-C is way too long for my style, but it might be the ant`s pants for you. None the less

attempting to cover the whole Wedding with only one, such long zoom is very restrictive for any style.

 

A second body; second flash; fast Normal Field of View zoom and two fast primes, I would be carrying, also: at the

minimum.

 

WW

[patty_h.]

I do have other lenses besides the 70-200 and actually I am not going to use that lens anymore because many of you suggested is not the best option and I agree. One of my main concerns now is the outdoor lighting, I actually spoke with the bride yesterday becuase she was also concerned that it would be too dark, she suggeested doing all the formals before the wedding. However, even if we do that like everybody knows weddings never start on time so it starts at 5:30 it will too dark like you guys said and I will still need to shoot the whole bridal party and the B&G! The worst part is she already sent out the invitations and I don't know if she would agree to move up the wedding. My questions is if she were to agree what would be the best time to move it to? I was thinking 3:30 because if the wedding actually starts at 4pm the wedding would be over at 4:30 and then we have 30 mins to shoot the formals with better lighting right? What do yu guys think? Thanks.

[picturesque]

I think you and she should leave it as is. If you send out a notification that the ceremony will start sooner, it will just cause confusion. You will still have some people arriving as if the ceremony started at 5:30pm. I would just do the best with the lighting as it exists.

 

If it were me, I would be double lighting some parts, combined with shutter drag, and using high ISO for other parts. Actually, just after it gets dark, you can usually still get some nice dark blue sky using high ISO. If you can manage to include strings of light or some other in the backgrounds, you will be fine dragging the shutter, with or without off camera flash. You may want to bring the old tripod.

 

The part that really suffers without some kind of daylight is the romantic stuff. You can do some nice romantic shots without daylight, but it sure helps to have it, and/or have it in addition to some killer after dark shots. I'd see if they would go for doing the 'first glance' type meeting before the ceremony, and maybe some of the formals before the ceremony starts.

[William Michael]

The Bride should NOT change the time of this Wedding.

 

In addition to the lighting suggestions Nadine made, you might find some warm ambient incandescent outside building or street lights, which, with a tripod and appropriate shutter drag, will add warmth and or glow, to the scene, after the sun has set.

 

WW

[savagesax]

A lot of people are afraid to shoot weddings in the evenings and I think it is a fear factor of no light. Therefore, my suggestion is to practice a lot taking night time photos before your wedding. Try experimenting with an added light or 2. The results can be wonderful.

[gary van schaick]

Hi Patty,

 

You may have to create additional light. This may sound strange but with the D300, you could go to Home Depot and grab a couple 6volt heavy duty flashlight lanterns. Those lights are rather powerful and cheap. Use some of the brides friends to hold the laterns for you. And you could move these lanterns around and produce diferent lighting effects. You could turn a difficult lighting situation into a unique experience. I've used these lanterns to back light only the veil for instance. Experiment ahead of time

[markonestudios]

I too would go for a bounce card rather than a diffuser. I find my Demb Flash Diffuser nigh on indispensable. Very simple to use and very versatile. As for ISO, while reading up on nightclub photography before a gig I was to shoot, I found out that high ISO might not always be necessary. If you use your flash appropriately, you can actually get some great shots with minimal noise. However, I have also read that the D300 is good even at high ISOs.

<p>As has been said, you may need a multiple light solution, such as 2 SB800s with one in Commander mode (I'm a Canon shooter so I'm not sure that's the right name) and the other on a stand.

<p>One thing you WILL need to do is ensure that the bride & groom understand the challenges of dusk/night wedding photography. If at all you can, try and get some shots of the B&G in more controlled lighting, so that if they'd like a 20x30 print later, it won't be so 'noisy' as to be unuseable.

<p>Finally, practice!

[richard_wang10]

Okay here's my 2 cents.

 

Keep you camera on manual or aperture, keep it off auto because in low light the camera may get confused.

 

My advice on ISO, with no flash, is to keep it high enough that you're comfortable handholding. Practice at the highest ISO and keep on working down until it starts getting blurry.

 

If that doesn't work maybe go get yourself a monopod.

 

Unless there is absolutely no light at all, which I doubt, it's never too dark to shoot.

 

Plus you've got you own personal Sun with your flash. And if you've got a flash then you've got studio lighting.

 

Here's a little Strobist trick.

 

Get yourself a Bogen 3373 light stand, a umbrella adapter with a hotshoe mount and a Westcott double fold shoot through umbrella. Mount the flash on the adapter. Attach the umbrella. Attach PC cable or remote to flash and camera. You now have portable studio quality lighting. Not counting the Pocket Wizards, you're talking around $100.

 

Use this set-up all the time on assignments. Great because I don't have to lug tons of equipment.

 

You said you've got an assistant, save more money. Forget the Bogen and go to the hardware store and get a paint brush extension pole. Duct tape the adapter on and make the assistant carry it around and light the subjects.

 

Used this set-up a couple of time at media events. Worked great.

 

Remember at least it's not summer and no mosquitos!

 

Oh and go practice practice and practice.

 

Good luck!

[bradfernihough]

Practice in the light with different settings, mixing up the ISO and DOF.

 

DOF can be the biggest mistake you might make. By using fast lenses, f1.4 - 2.8 we get complacent in low light, that the shots appear great on the LCD with our (apparent) correct ISO setting, only to get home and view the image on a 26" monitor to see the individuals ear is sharp, but not much else. It might have been the only image, of that person, in that setting, with that expression. Ensuring DOF and sacrificing an f stop with a higher ISO and thus, extra noise, can make the difference.