35mm rangefinders other than Leica?

[aaron_heinrich]

I'm just getting seriously into film after a long hiatus. I used to have a Nikon FE, which I liked, but lost.

When I first got back into film this last summer I got a Rolleiflex Automat, which I love. But, I'd like a

smaller 35mm camera also as a back up. I just recently got a Rolleiflex SL35, which is ok, but plainly isn't "the

one." The build quality seems a bit sub-par and the optics are just ok.

 

So, maybe I'll end up with another SLR, but I'm interested in the compact size and minimal internal movement of

range finders. I can't afford a Leica. What options are there that might be more affordable? I've been reading

a bit about the Contax and Yashica Elecro Models, and I understand there's a Minolta 7sII and Vivitar 35ES to

look at. What are the pros and cons of these options, and of any other options there might be?

[andy_piper2]

I supposed someone will ask - why not just get another Nikon FE? - there are plenty out there.

 

I'll assume you know that, and go direct to your title question.

 

If you want interchangeable lenses, then there's the Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa series - latest ones have Leica M mount but their own low-price lenses. The only other "new" 35mm RF you can buy today.

 

Or Contax G with autofocus - discontinued but lots available used. Some purists don't count them as RFs, but they do have "the compact size and minimal internal movement" of a Leica.

 

Or Canons and Nikons from the 60s - collectible ones are almost Leica-pricey, but a sweet little Canon P will be $400 +/- and will take 1960s Canon/Leica screwmount lenses or the screwmount versions of Cosina/Voigtlander (modern production) at, say, $300-$400 each.

 

If I absolutely had to shoot film today, with an RF, and at least some lens interchangeability (which I refuse to give up).....I personally would get a Canon P and 3-4 old Canon or new Voigtlander lenses. Less ornery than a Contax G (their automation tends to try and tell you when to take the picture, rather than the other way around). A little bit tighter build and finish than the modern Cosinas.

[andy_piper2]

I should have added to that last paragraph: "with an RF, at a reasonable price".

[debusti_paolo]

Did you looked for a contax g1 or g2?

[john clark]

I'm a big fan of the Contax G2 - it's (for me) the closest to a perfect combination of RF and automatic, and with some practice can be a very effective and efficient tool for creating fantastic images. You have to learn its peculiarities somewhat (such as making use of focus-lock and re-composing) but it is a very fine camera by any standards. Not purist, but effective. Superb lenses too.

[rgerraty]

Andy's forgotten the Zeiss Ikon with many devotees and some great lenses. Released as late as 2004, some have

described it as better than the Leica M7. It doesn't feel as solid as a Leica but it has some great features and is no doubt a great camera. The viewfinder is large and clear. Like the M7 it can be aperture priority automatic. It is slightly larger but lighter than an M Leica. It looks

beautiful. If you never held a Leica you'd fall in love with this camera and not think anything could be better. You might even be right. There

are a few reviews on the net.

[georg_s1]

Just two thoughts: the Yashica Electro 35 is a really big and heavy camera if this model is still on Your list. A decent

camera - but no RF is the Konica Hexar AF: nice lens, silent operation mode and in black a real beauty. georg

[gadge]

1) Do you want a meter?

 

If you do and decide to go with a RF than take a look at Voigtlander bodies. They are modern and lightweight. Look for one with metering and a Leica screw thread mount. You can then use any screw or M lens on them inc Leica although their own lenses are very good. They are not a classic though if you want that vintage look / feel and supposedly don't have the build quality of a Leica.

 

2) What lens lengths do you like to use and to shoot what with?

 

***RF are only good for wide angle to 90mm or 135 at a push so are hopeless for sports.

***Any wide angle below 28mm will also probably need an external finder so will involve faffing about.

***They also don't work well or even at all close up so no good for Macro or even frame filling full face portraits.

 

Disclaimer***The above statements are generalities so may not be 100% factual e.g. there is a 90mm macro lens option for M cameras which may work for you.

 

If the above issues makes you now think you may well want a classic SLR after all then how about an Olympus? The first OM-1 was called them M-1 originally before Leica objected because it was so based on the compact size and feel of an M camera. The glass is supposed to be very good although I am surprised that you find the SL35 optics to be only so so (are yours zooms or primes?). Buying another Nikon is another easy option.

 

The fact is this - If you want a metered film camera then virtually any old film SLR offers amazing value at this time including Leica SLR cameras if you fancy a well engineered brick to lug about :-)

 

Late model Leica RFs with meters have not, to date, suffered quite so badly in the move to digital so they still are not a cheap option nor is their glass.

[georg_s1]

Addendum:

 

<P> <CENTER> <IMG SRC=http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/8125713-lg.jpg> </CENTER> <P>

 

The Yashica is not that much big - sorry for adding confusion.

I have one in its original case and this thing is really large.

georg

[marek_fogiel]

Aaron,

The Zeiss Ikon with ZM lenses is probably the best RF combination around today,and it costs half or less than comparable

new Leica equipment, still it is relatively expensive. I'd suggest a Bessa for a start - the R4A if you like the wide lenses, or

the R3A in case you can be ok with lenses from 40 to 90mm. The CV lenses are first class and not expensive. An

alternative would be a functioning Leica M2 - you can find these for acceptable money these days. Look up the

rangefinderforum.com.

[vic_.]

Aaron Heinrich: <i>"... I can't afford a Leica. ..."</i>

<p>It's not that you can't afford a Leica, it's that you don't want it badly enough. You will end up spending a lot of

money buying this and that, always comparing it to a Leica, and in the end you will buy a Leica, just to experience

it. There simply is no substitute. Otherwise you wouldn't be talking about it over here.

[Rob F.]

Or maybe he really can't afford one, or has other priorities. But what about a Leica CL with 40mm Minolta Rokkor?

[marc_bergman1]

"Otherwise you wouldn't be talking about it over here."

 

This is the Leica AND Rangefinder forum. It is not exclusive to one or the other.

[furcafe]

Along similar lines as the Contax G2 or Hexar AF, you might want to consider some of the nicer point & shoots w/manual options, like the Nikon 28Ti & 35Ti.

[vic_.]

Here's a journey:

 

http://www.davebeckerman.com/general/Camera-Addict.htm

[christopher_m]

Voigtlander Bessa R is probably the camera you are looking for. The built in meter is good. It's a good camera for the price. Here is one for <a href ="http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/13035/cat/1/limit/recent">$250</a>. The Canon P will run about the same price, but the Bessa does have a nice meter. You can get a 35/2.5 Voigtlander lens for <a href="http://www.jackscamera.com/activex/used_equipment_list.asp">$195</a>.

<p>

Correcting Gadge A... "Look for one with metering and a Leica screw thread mount. You can then use any screw or M lens on them " This is not ture. A screw mount body can only accept screw mount lenses. A M-mount body can accept screwmount lenses with an adapter. There is a wide variety of screwmount lenses which makes it not a problem. Screwmount lenses are also less expensive.

<p>

The later Bessa are all M-mount cameras and will be more expensive.

<p>

I'd really say $400 is the lowest cost to get into an interchangable lens rangefinder and a lens. If that is too expensive, try a Canonet GIII QL17 for about $50.

<p>

As for the Zeiss Ikon, it's a pretty nice camera, but for $1400, you can get a used Leica M6.

[harvey_edelstein1]

I have several MF Nikons, my favorite is the F3hp but if you don't wear glasses a standard F3 is just as good for less money. The sync speed is slower but about what leicas have, I have a 28mm F2 a 50mm F1.2 and an 85mm F1.4. These lenses are just as good as anything Leica has that is that fast and your wallet is not going to be paying thousands more. The F3 is buttery smooth and without a motor drive really tiny compared to todays Dslrs. I would add the 135mm F2 if you want a really fast kit.

[craig_shearman1]

I love my Canonet GIII QL 17. It has a 40mm 1.7 lens, unfortunately not interchangeable but very sharp and the camera is small and lightweight. Full manual exposure control with shutter speeds to 1/500, leaf shutter for unlimited flash sync, both PC contact and hot shoe. Often cited in reviews as a poor man's Leica. These cameras seem to go in and out of favor and that affects the price, but you can usually pick one up for $100 or so. I think I paid about $30 for mine.

[mdoyle]

Craig

 

Me too, my Canonet kicks butt. Paid 100 for it and had it brought to factory spec for another 100. All my b/w are shot with that camera. I have had it for 5 years

[frank.schifano]

I'll add my $.02 in for one of the Bessa Voigtlander cameras if the price works for you. I don't own one, nor do I own a Leica or any vintage, but I have used both. The Leica, of course, feels more solid and is much more quiet than the Bessa cameras. The viewfinders on both are better than good. Some say that the Bessa has a brighter finder than the Leica, though in my opinion the point is moot. The Cosina Voigtlander lenses are not to be dismissed out of hand either. In many cases, the differences between the Leica glass and the CV glass won't be noticed. When it is noticeable, the differences are subtle. Of course, there's no stopping you from using any Leitz glass on the M mount Bessa cameras. As mentioned proviously, screw mount lenses will fit and work perfectly with an inexpensive adapter should you decide to go that way. M mount Leica glass will work perfectly as is.

[tom_barrance]

If you don't mind autofocus, the Ricoh GR1 series - with a fixed 28mm lens - are wonderfully small, light, and well-designed. The TTL flash

is good. Only trouble is that the autowind can be noisy, and good ones go for quite a high price.

[alex_lofquist]

Canon made some excellent copies of the Leica IIIa, sometimes marketed as a Tower brand and sold by Sears. However if you must have the Leica name, you'll just have to pay for it

[razondetre]

Dude, you don't need to dump a wad for a rangefinder. Get a Canon Canonet or, since no one said it, get a clean Retina IIC or, if you need the interch. lenses, try a Zorki 4.

[hal_edmonds]

I had the complete Olympus system, the OM 1, 2,3, and 4... The Zuiko glass is outstanding and never any problems...The cameras are small and light...They were used a lot in my three studios...The metering was always accurate...I gave the complete $5000 (retail) collection to my son when he graduated from Art School...

[jtk]

If you're shooting B&W you don't need (or soon won't need) a built in meter. None of the famous good old boys had built in meters, and few even relied on hand-held.