M8 ir cut filters

[ray .]

From what I've seen, Leica and B+W are the only brands that make filters for the M8 color correction situation.

 

Is this correct and do the B+W filters work fine? Is the filter glass pink or green in color or clear? What is the price range of the filters?

 

Thanks in advance..

[Uhooru]

I don't know about the filters, both are quality filters generally. I'm wondering more about the lens coding issue. How important is that to proper functioning? If I were considering a drink of cool-aid, I might want to know that as well.

[ray .]

yeah, you'll want to have your lenses coded when you get yours Barry.. ;)

[kens]

The filters - both Leica and B+W - are clear glass. But holding them under different lights on white paper, or at an angle,

you'll see different color effects because of the light they are reflecting versus passing - usually primary reflected reds or

secondary reflected greens. It can be confusing, but the glass itself is clear.

 

I use both Leica and B+W and I can't see any difference in performance. The B+W rim is, as always, a little heavier.

 

You can see the pricing yourself on B&H or Adarama, but to give you an idea:

 

Leica UV/IR: 39mm=$143 46mm=$143 55mm=$182

 

B+W type 486: 39mm=$60 46mm=$63 55mm=$123

[ray .]

Thanks Ken. And looks like I found the answer to my next question- a 40.5mm filter is available for my 40mm Rokkor.

 

At $60 per the most common size doesn't sound like the big deal some people made it out to be. I always keep a filter on

to protect the front element anyway.

[tom_higgins3]

I can't understand why the focal length of whatever lens you have mounted can't be set thru the camera menu- they seem to have gotten a

handle on the firmware by now (the last update created a new exposure mode, "auto iso" - pretty handy). I'm sure something similar could be

done for lens coding- they could even lose the sensor on the camera, which must add to the price. Whatever the reasoning behind this

feature initially, the bottom line is that the camera uses information gathered from (expensively) printed black and white dots to adjust how its

software renders raw files (I think I have this right). I won't be having it done to my lenses (and I don't use the filters they sent me) not least

because i need them for work since i traded my canon stuff. Also, if you're working in raw, it's simple to adjust the look of the file- and they

can take a lot of adjusting. For all the hysteria, the M8 does exactly what it says on the box- it's a digital Leica rangefinder.

[stephen_pitts]

Ray,

 

Always buy the B&W (Schneider) filters with MRC (multi-resistant coating?) if you can. They resist all sorts of stuff

that usually afflicts a filter and are much better over time. In fact, I wish Leica would let Schneider make their

standard polarizering filter (with MRC, of course).

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[vivek iyer]

The Schneider "MRC" UV-IR cut filters are prone to scratches. I use them (not on an M8).

 

Unlike a normal filter, any scratch on the UV-IR (or any dichroic filters) would affect the effectiveness. So, you need to protect the "protecting" filter.

[ray .]

Supposedly wider than 50mm lenses should be coded, mileage may vary. Personally, I'd rather have the code dial it in

then having to set it up in the menu.

 

Steve, yeah, B+W seem to have a good reputation..

[michael_dimarzio]

I have no dog in the ring, but are new lenses coming coded? I bought a new Elmarit-M this year that was not. If

not, why would they expect it's customers to have them coded before use?

[Ed_Ingold]

The B+W filter (#486) recommended by Leica for the M8 is a so-called "hot mirror" filter which passes visible light but reflects infrared and ultraviolet. The filtering effect is accomplished much the same way as coating on lenses reduces reflections. Like coated lenses, these filters look strange by reflected light, but are completely transparent if you look through them. Google "dichroic filters" for a technical explanation of how it works.

 

AFIK, Leica does not make these filters, although they may re-brand B+W versions. Tiffen also makes an hot mirror filter. Both are sold by B&H.

[steve_swinehart]

"AFIK, Leica does not make these filters, although they may re-brand B+W versions."

 

--- Heliopan.

[john_shriver]

Any lens that isn't coded is old stock.

 

Indeed, the coding is required on 35mm and wider lenses. It's because these filters are dichroic, which is an interference process that depends very strongly on the thickness of the layers, and the thickness is effectively different when the light passes through the lens at an angle.

 

It is gratuitous (even self-centered) of Leica not to allow setting the lens focal length through the menus. I suppose some product manager thinks this is a competitive advantage for Leica lenses, rather than an insulting slap in the face of M8 owners, which is really what it is.

[stephen_pitts]

Vivek,

 

No disrespect, but I have never found the MRC filters prone to scratches -- in fact, I have found them far more durable

and clean than normal filters (BMW uses it on their windshields, by the way). I own a ton of them, have used a ton

and always marvel how they naturally stay so clean. But I am always having to keep cleaning the Leica filters --

particularly the polariod filter for the M camera. (Even if they did, by the way, you wouldn't buy another filter to

protect it). I often shoot the M8 lenses without filters. Did so in India for three weeks and only got hit with the IR

effect once: a black lampshade.

 

Anyhow, no big deal.

 

Cheers,

 

Steve

[vivek iyer]

Steve, The lens side of the UV-IR cut filter has the IR cut coating. This is prone to scratches (finger nails even).

 

Search here for accounts from others: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/

[blakley]

I've got UV/IR cut filters on all my M8 lenses and not all the coatings are on the lens side; some B+W lenses have it on the front surface. Even with these filters, I get no scratches. I recently torture-tested one of these front-surface-coated UV/IR cut filters in very dusty conditions at an outdoor musical event (cleaning the filter periodically with my oh-so-not-microfiber t-shirt) and it came through just fine.

[blakley]

(that's "some B+W filters", not "some B+W lenses", of course... sorry)

[tom_higgins3]

WAY too much is being made of this- it takes great files, period.If you prefer working a leica m, it's well worth making the switch. (personal

opinion)

 

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[joseph_wisniewski]

"At $60 per the most common size doesn't sound like the big deal some people made it out to be."

 

The "big deal" is, as Ken pointed out, that the filters appear very vivid red when seen at an angle. Get the angle right, and they even flame orange...

 

Back in the "bad old days", I used to use those same filters on a Nikon D100, not quite as IR sensitive as M8. I was shooting at a political event and the governor's security team (As Lynyrd Skynyrd said "they was lean and mean and big and bad") surrounded me and grilled me at length. One of them told me that the only thing he'd ever seen reflect that color was a spotting scope on a sniper rifle. I had to dismount the lens, let them look through the lens, remount the lens, take some pictures, for them, etc, before they let me be.

 

Something that attracts as much attention as dichroic filters is totally unacceptable for a street shooter. That's the "big deal". Not the cost.

[joseph_wisniewski]

There are currently two companies who make the hot mirror glass: Schott and Tiffen. The Schott glass is used by B+W, Heliopan, and probably anyone else who makes them in Europe (so Leica's current source may be neither B+W nor Heliopan). This is also why B+W and Heliopan are able to offer basically the same fingerprint resistant coating.

 

The Tiffen filter has a different cutoff frequency than the Schott, so it requires a different table of color compensation vs. focal length than the Schott, and therefore, cannot be used with the Leica radial color shift correction.

 

And last, but not least, Nikon implemented a very effective solution for letting you select focal lenght and aperture parameters for lenses that couldn't return those values to the camera electronically. This debuted in the D2H, then D2X, F6, D200, D3, D300, and D700.

 

Piece of cake firmware upgrade for a competent camera company.

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

Good thread. I got my first uv/ir filter today (E60 Leica) and looked thru it, saw nothing, and shrugged my shoulders. What's

the big deal, I asked? Now I know. Thanks for the great info. Oh, the sticker was US$199. Good shooting all!

[peteradownunder]

Glad you are enjoying your M8 Tom. I havent coded any of my lenses and I havnt ever updated my software from the

original firmware. I use B&W IR filters on 21/28/35/50 and 75 and I couldnt bothered coding my lenses - which btw

anyone can do themselves if they choose to. teh only thing that sometimes bugs me about teh M8 is the crop

factor. I have had to buy a 21 and a 35 to kinda sorta get what I used to get with a 28/50 combo in film.

[w_wachusea]

If the RAW files can be compensated or adjusted in PhotoShop....whats the big deal about Coding and filters?

[steve_swinehart]

"(so Leica's current source may be neither B+W nor Heliopan)."

 

They're made by Heliopan.

[Ed_Ingold]

<i>If the RAW files can be compensated or adjusted in PhotoShop....whats the big deal about Coding and filters?</i>

<p>

It is nearly impossible to correct for IR artifacts in Photoshop without spoiling the overall color balance. Green shadows and dark fabric with a decided maroon tint vs. orange or magenta faces - some choice, eh? An hot mirror filter solves the problem before it occurs.