ethical question, what to do

[savagesax]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I was actually bummed out when I got back to the studio thinking I did the wrong thing.

 

I actually had 2 weddings yesterday and she hit me up for the extra camera during the end of first wedding. So that kind of complicated the situation. If I didn't have the second wedding to run to I would have shot her wedding myself, using my own gear, but sadly that wasn't the situation.

 

After reading the responses I feel better. If this ever happens to me again I do like the ideas about getting the persons ID's and also introducing myself to the other bride and groom to make sure this situation was real.

[er1]

Its beyond risky to bring only one camera body to any event. My partner is the only one who has access to my equipment during a shoot, no exceptions.

[wedding-photography-denver]

Well, I don't know what I would do Bob.

 

I think as I am generally a go ahead person, and the fact that I have six bodies at a gig, I would probably have loaned her one. With some sort of formal agreement as others suggested.

 

OTOH, it seems that one should learn the lesson sooner than later and this would certainly be that lesson in her case.

[david_garcia10]

I wouldn't let anyone borrow my camera (I only have 2 but it doesn't matter if I have 6 like David W), I would lend it to a friend but not someone I just met. I feel sorry for the couple but their photographer should have brought a backup body...

[amol]

I agree with you. I have a hard time giving my camera to family/friends. No way, I'm giving my camera to some

stranger, who didn't plan ahead. You pay good money for your equipment. You spent time investing into your

business. No reason to compromise yourself (your equipment). They should have rented or borrowed extra equipment

before shooting a wedding.

 

I would never give my camera to any stranger (photographer or not), that is not in my line-of-sight, never.

Unless, of course, they gave me the cash value of my equipment.

 

Quote for the year:

 

"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"

[jc5066]

I'm all for helping people out when I can. NEVER leave yourself in a compromising situation, like only one camera body like the other photographer did. You are a professional and need to be prepared as such.

 

This is not a case of ethics as it is you being a pro and making sure you are able to do your job. If your one camera malfunctions then you must have a back-up that you can immediately get.

 

It totally sucks for the other photographer and couple. In all reality, that wasn't your problem. One can not blame the couple, for most its their first wedding, they don't know any better to ask certain questions. The "pro" on the other hand should know they need at least one back-up of everything.

[hassy501]

It was totally unethical for that other photographer to ask YOU to borrow your gear. That is shameless. To think that she was being paid to perform a service, not be prepared, obviously non professional, then to have the nerve to ask someone to bail her out.

 

And we all know how this country feels about bailouts.........

[jc5066]

George; Please. It would be stupid for her not to ask. It was unethical not to call herself a pro and to not be prepared.

[steve_c.5]

Bob, I'm in agreement that you have to look out for your client first and that you did the right thing. This situation

you've described does beg the question; did she LOOK like a pro or just some guest? Typically, a pro will have the

seasoned "look" about them, or be dressed in a certain way, have a lens belt, name badge, or other identifying

clues. Did they have a business card? A pro would be able to readily identify themselves as a working shooter, not

just some schmoe.

 

Did they have the broken camera with them? Was it a pro model? Did they know how to even use your gear had you

lent it to them? Do they speak our lingo? Did she say, "my camera broke" or rather, "I was in the middle of shooting

formals and I'm getting an error code blah blah blah"?

 

Not that any of these things would really affect my response, but I was just wondering if this person was for real? If

the person was for real, I'd have a smidge more sympathy, but in the end, too bad for them, they should know to

bring a backup. And they'd totally understand when you said "no". This is one of those life lessons each "pro" must

either plan for or learn the hard way. I'd never hand over a +$2000 rig to some stranger, pro or not.

[savan_thongvanh]

just curious, what was she shooting w/?

[steve_c.5]

By the way, Bob, I know you're able to easily spot a pro yourself, I was mostly asking the questions above because they came up in my head as I read through this, and I was curious.

[GerrySiegel]

I don't see anything ethical or unethical going on. I am a good samaritan if I can help without personal risk of my life or my own sense of security... I won't jump in to save a swimmer in a rip tide but I will call 911-in your case I might call all the pros I know who could jump in and save the day-( I might even call an amateur someone like ME :-) who can come over right away-that would show at least a try.) You were not in a life saving situation. And the whole request sounds funny to me..so I doubt if I would be that nice to someone not known to me. But this was not a situation where you had any obligation to loan anything to a stranger. You are a sensitive person and we can understand that part. Good for you. Now, think of you in a situation where.let's say, your flash is not working. Would you go to ask an unknown photographer and bail you out. Maybe. Maybe not. Question is really: When do professionals loan each other equipment? Well established. When you know the other photographer as a fellow in the business. Sleep easily. This was a tough lesson for the other party and the b and g. Likely some guests had cameras. Did you get the person's business card? I can be a hard ass in these kind of situations.

[steve_c.5]

One other visual tipoff...the pro will typically be the one sweating profusely and a little dishevelled from working so hard...at least in my case.

[francie_baltazar]

I think you did the right thing - I don't have a back up to my back up to my back up - I have one back up - I have one back up and I would not loan it out to another photographer... If I had multiple back-up's I probable would have... but I don't schlep that kind of equipment around...I appreciate that we all want to help each other out - but it's just not professional in today day when you can rent equipment online not to show up with back-up's to everything you have in your bag... and in my case I always shoot with another shooter and I still would not have given it to her... feel horible for the BG but again they hold some responsiblitity in choosing a professional and asking about back-ups...

[savagesax]

Another follow up. I actually have no idea what she was shooting with. I didn't have a whole lot of time to mess with her, meaning checking out her camera. If I had time I would have done the usual to help someone, such as asking about an error message, low battery power, dirty contacts, simple checks such as that. Actaully the lady was not carrying a camera with her. I assumed she left it at the other wedding. Now that I think about it, this doesn't sound right. Most photographers would probably ask you to look at the camera before asking to lend one out. Perhaps this was a type of setup.

 

The lady was dressed in black so she sort of looked like a photographer and played the part as one. Beyond looks, I'm pretty much the type of person to believe them than not to believe their story. She was in her late 30's probably. I have no idea what kind of experience she had as a photographer, but probably none, as we all know not to show up at a wedding without the required backup gear, even if it was just a point and shoot film camera.

 

Also in the back of my mind, I know there are always people with cameras at weddings. I'm sure some of you have been to weddings where the guests have good gear. Hopefully she borrowed a guests camera. I have no idea, I'm just rambling, but as embarrassing as the situation may have been hopefully she did something to save herself.

 

The sad part is I don't really have a cheap backup camera. My spares are both very new, less than 30 shots in each camera. The spares I carry are a 5D and another 1Dsmk3. This is another reason for not wanting to lend her my gear. They are too new. If I had something beat up and well used, not worth much, well I probably would have taken a chance, but even the 5D is/was about $2400 or so.

[markonestudios]

Knowing myself, I am more inclined to make a heart decision than a head decision, generally speaking :] However, when it comes to my cameras, I lend absolutely no one. Given your situation and your explanation, I think you did the right thing under the circumstances. Tough decision, but in your case justified, methinks :)

[William Michael]

Interesting side notes have been brought up IMO . . . (Hi Steve !)

 

I don`t think we should necessarily conclude a ``set up`` from the facts the woman did not come to Bob with camera in hand, or that she did or did not attempt to borrow a guest`s camera first, or that she did not tell about an error message, or use ``tech talk`` or ``Photog`s lingo`` etc.

 

We could just as easily hypothesize that she was a rank amateur, with a DSLR and a website labelled ``Wedding Photographer`` whose camera froze and she pressed the panic button, dropped the camera and went firstly to someone who was a Professional . . . kinda like the naughty school child who always is avoiding the teachers, until they are in real need, or danger: we read posts here often, that mimic this scenario.

 

 

***

 

 

I do not believe any of the actions of this woman were ``unethical``.

 

Clearly if she did not carry a second camera she was ``nowhere within a cooee`` (look it up) of a Professional`s Bootlace (mixed metaphors abound), so therefore no Professional Ethics bind her.

 

She was just a Lady who made a very large mistake when she allowed her ego make promises she could not deliver, and for which she now might pay dearly . . .

 

or she was a con artist, and ``illegal`` not unethical.

 

WW

[lou korell]

Bob, don't feel bad about your decision. Your couple is paying you for your backups to be there in case you need

them.

If you gave the photographer your backup or one of your backups, you would have raised the odds against yourself

if your cameras started to fail. I knew someone who had three cameras fail at a wedding!

 

That would have been risky, not to mention the fact that you would give your camera to a stranger who's own

camera you didn't see. I think you did the right thing for you and for your client. And yes, I feel bad for the

other photographer and won't necessarily judge them harshly for their lack of a backup. Too many people get into

this game without thinking of the risks. Stuff happens.

 

Lou

[thomas semesky]

"Unethical" is a perfect word for this situation. Definition: "not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; 'unethical business practices' ". In this situation the photographer went into this wedding knowing that they didn't have any backup equipment.

 

And I like what Kelly Flanigan had to say,

"What ever happened to the ethics of being prepared?"

 

Tom

[steve_c.5]

Hey, WW! What you've said is 100% true, of course. I wasn't concluding a "setup", but what Bob described did beg the questions. I don't think I'd leave my weddiing without my "broken" camera in hand (just leave it laying around) and go to a nearby wedding for help, so that was a red flag for me. If I were going next door to "borrow a cup of camera", I'd certainly make some effort to appear "credentialed" and genuine. And have the appearance of someone trustworthy and knowledegable.

 

Nor, do I find her actions unethical, and could only find them illegal if she had succeded in perpetrating a fraud and making off with Bob's camera. Since she wasn't granted the camera, it's a moot point, and one we'll never know the answer to.

 

But I agree with you that she was either foolish or a total con.

[William Michael]

Oh I love semantics . . .

 

By the definition provided, Unethical" is a perfect word for this situation: Perhaps, but not from her perspective, if she is not part of that professional group. . .

 

We have a business, (outside Photography). I have ethical standards of practice, bound by an association demanded of me. But we also have customers, who are in no way bound by those codes of practice. Every day nearly every client in our interaction would in some way act unethically, by the standards placed upon me: they do it out of honest ignorance, nothing more.

 

That was my point . . . she was in no way a professional, thereby not accountable to those professional rules of ethics.

 

Secondly: ``In this situation the photographer went into this wedding knowing that they didn't have any backup equipment.``

 

Not necessarily so, it is a reasonable assumption, but not fact.

 

***

 

Steve: I did not assume you were ``concluding``, my phraseology might have implied such, but I did not assume it. . . .

 

``I don`t think we should necessarily conclude`` is not the same as: ``you should not conclude`` or ``your conclusion is wrong`` or ``to conclude is wrong``

 

WW

[steve_c.5]

I understood your intention about "concluding" completely, WW, I was just bloviating. Sorry if I misspoke about it!

 

She may not have been bound by any set rules of ethics, but again, I don't find her actions unethical; rather, they were unwise in my judgement.

 

(did I split that hair fine enough?!) Cheers!

[William Michael]

That made me laugh.

 

Cheers back at you. Enough for me.

 

Thanks all

 

WW

[sherijohnson]

actually I don't even see this as an ethical question, I see it as a business question. I know many answer would have been, I am sorry, but my company policy is that no one else touches my equipment, period.

 

my husband is a DJ and the nerve of some people, we have actually had other DJ's come and ask if they can borrow some of our music and another DJ that actually had the nerve to ask if he could borrow our dance floor lights....he didn't have any and it was for the same party (they hired 2 dj's, one for early, one for later). When our time was up, the dance floor lights left with us.

[james_kellar2]

I would NEVER loan ANY equipment to ANYONE for any reason. The other photographer should have a second spare camera. Next time they will know to have spare gear.