Any recommendations for wedding lighting?

[elizabeth_russell1]

Hi I photograph weddings and I'm currently using a couple 580 ex II and st-e2 transmitters for lighting.

The problems I'm coming across are:

Sometimes I'm unable to get enough power from to light a room or the subject

Occasionally I'd like to put the flash directly behind the subject or just not have to have them right in the

sight of the transmitter. I'd like a system that doesn't have to be so close to fire.

Also I'm using gary fongs lightosphere but its still not completely even lighting. I'd like somethings a little

more even, maybe even some small softboxes?

Some of these problems could be user errors but if anyone has any suggestions on another system that works for

them please let me know. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[craig_shearman1]

For remote triggering you need Pocket Wizards. Rock soid dependable, virtually unlimited range. You can do a lot with a couple of 580's but they're not big enough to light up a whole room. Try dragging the shutter to pick up background light or put some studio strobes in the corners of the room to light up the whole place, or just light a smaller area. Are you talking about candids at the receiption or formal portraits? i would use umbrellas or softboxes for formals but the Fong gadget has a good reputation for candids. Lumiquest and Westcott make small softboxes you can use on camera for candis and you can also use an Omni StoFen.

[bob_osullivan]

1) Power. You may in fact need something more powerful like a monoblock strobe but first stop using ETTL. Try using manual mode on the flash and camera to bet full power. If that doesn't do it, you could look into more powerful flash units from Metz maybe, or strobes like alien bees.

 

2) Line of sight transmitter. This is a problem with infrared systems like the ST-E2. Try using Pocket Wizard or if they're too expensive look on ebay for some off brand radio slave triggers. Read the descriptions carefully. Some only work up to 30 feet, others 50 or 100. The pocket wizards are good till 1600 feet. You can use PC cords to connect the wizards to the 580 flashes. You'll need a receiver for each flash or an optical slave peanut for one of the 580s.

 

3) LIght Modifyers. In a wedding venue I wouldn't suggest softboxes, too big and inconvenient. Umbrellas would probably be better. You can get umbrella adapters that go on stands or bogen super clamps to mount your flash and umbrella together and you can hang the radio slave of of these. If using stands, weather for the 580s or for monoblocks get some sandbags to stabalize them.

 

When I use mono lights in a venue, I usually place one in each of two corners. I use large white or silver bounce umbrellas usually. And arrange them so they also lighting the ceiling if it's low enough.

[gerald_kraus]

Check out the flash units and FreeXwire transmitter on www.qtm.com. They are made by Quantum Instruments and are a lot strong in light output than the shoemounts.

[picturesque]

Unfortunately it is difficult to make any recommendations because much depends on how you work--the kind of lighting you want, the ISOs and apertures you use, etc. I used to use Norman 200Bs, but when I went DSLR, I found they were much too powerful. I now use two Sunpak 120Js as off camera flashes, combined with my on camera shoemount. I use those cheap ebay triggers that aren't available anymore. Contrary to what almost everyone will tell you, they just keep working for me.

 

However, I would not recommend you go that route now that there are cheaper alternatives to Pocket Wizards, which ARE the gold standard. Get them if you can, but if not, try researching CyberSyncs or Elinchrom's Skyports. You might also research Radiopoppers for ETTL, if triggering is the only problem.

 

As for even lighting, this is an extremely wide area. Small softboxes are not going to get you soft light, which is what most people are after. Perhaps you can explain what you mean--'even' and 'soft' and 'diffuse' all have different meanings and are achieved differently. Most on-camera/flash modifiers depend on a larger bounce surface for soft light. Without that, they don't produce very soft light.

[Ed_Ingold]

You can probably handle 80% or more of wedding lighting with an automatic shoe flash like the 580, plus another for a spare. You won't, however, light a whole room with one unless the room is very small. I like to build lighting in stages. For intermediate results I carry a Q-flash and a couple of Turbo battery packs. These packs can also be used with my Nikon SB-800s for nearly instantaneous recycling and hundreds of pops. The Q-flash is great for run-and-gun society page stuff or informal portraits. Removing the reflector gives good modeling and fill with a single flash, on a stand with the subject, camera and flash at the corners of an equilateral triangle - perfect for newspapers.

 

For lighting a whole room I carry a Speedotron Force 10 monolight (1000 joules). It will light a 40x40 foot room to f/11 at ISO 400 with the reflector removed and can be turned down 6 stops. For additional effects, I have three small (350 joules) monolights that run from AC or the Turbo batteries, and a bunch of modifiers, umbrellas, stands and filters.

[elizabeth_russell1]

Thanks for all the advice guys! :)

I've done a little research and I'm still torn.. goodness with all the technology out there you would think we

could get some transmitters that transmitted ttl without having to connect it to a flash. grr.. I still am not

sure that I understand everything but I think I'm getting closer... anymore advice would be greatly appreciated

(again) :P

I think shooting in ETTL is important to me because of what I do. I don't have a lot of time to set up and I

usually shoot between 1500-2500 images a wedding (6-10 hrs)

My problem with the Pocket wizard is I would have to manually control my flashes... (can I control them with the

pocket wizard?) Do any of you guys shoot heavy at wedding and events with this and how difficult do you find it

to keep manually changing the flash and how do you do that?

FreeXwire transmitter on www.qtm.com. --- hmm.. isn't that basically the same thing as the radio poppers you

connect the transmitter to the flash? Wouldn't it be better just to buy radio poppers since I already have some

580 ex's and 580 ex II? Is the power that much different?

Radiopoppers--- I've really enjoyed not having to have a heavy flash on my 40D w/ my battery grip and heavy L

lenses. I shoot way to long to have all this heavy equipment.... i suppose if that's the only way? I know I'm

probably way off but if it just needs to read the ettl from the flash couldn't it read it from a st-e2 instead?

CyberSyncs- I have one of those with my alienbee studio set up ... but I suppose I wouldn't get the ettl from

that either.... It's range is only 400ft.. I would probably opt for the pocket wizard if its not that time

consuming to adjust manually.... sigh... this is frustrating

[Ed_Ingold]

Nikon is arguably the champion of remote, TTL flash control. There is even an infrared controller that mounts in the flash shoe so you don't have to rely on a camera flash to trigger the rest. With i-TTL, you can control individual flash units separately and remotely.

 

Another option is to use remote flash units with automatic flash sensors. A photocell on the flash measures light reflected from the subject and adjusts the flash power accordingly. Set the ISO and f/stop on the flash unit, and the same f/stop on the camera. You can adjust the lighting ratio by setting a flash unit to a different f/stop than the camera. Most proprietary flash units, Q-flash, Lumedyne and Norman units have an automatic option, and possibly TTL.

 

The Quantum Freewire system radio triggers transmit TTL data to one or more remote flashes, and is highly adjustable (but with questionable reliability).

 

Multiple or remote flash units are too much to deal with when shooting candids, and completely unnecessary. Lighting for formal groups and location portraits is another matter. Since these situations are relatively static, I just run everything in manual and use a flash meter to determine the ratios and exposure. Use direct connections or radio remotes whenever possible.

 

If you use the built-in photoelectric triggers, everyone with a party popper camera will discharge your flash units, likely spoiling your shots and possibly blowing fuses. If I were starting over, I would definitely consider a pack flash with a single trigger point than a set of monolights and a bag of Pocketwizards.

[picturesque]

I shoot weddings and use manual flash for off camera flashes. I actually would find ETTL very frustrating for off camera flashes. I like to control the flash output. I actually find ETTL very frustrating for an on camera flash too. I use my off camera flashes for formals and whenever I want them and have the time to set them up. I use them for reception lighting too. The idea that you have to be contstantly changing flash output (for off camera flashes) is not real. Yes, you need to know generally what kind of output you will get from the flashes at various partial power settings (for your purposes) but you aren't constantly changing the setting within sessions.

 

Freewires with Quantums don't make much sense, since Quantums don't output that much more power than the 580EX. There are other reasons to choose Quantum Q flashes, but extra power isn't one of them, or at least, it isn't the main thing. The Pocket Wizard does not control a flash's output for you.

 

You basically must decide if you want to pursue using ETTL for off camera flashes. If so, your only option besides continuing with the present Canon wireless system is to get Radiopoppers. I do believe they work with ST-E2s. This would be the thing to do if you basically are happy with the multiple shoemount idea but just unhappy with the triggering reliability and range.

 

If that isn't all that you are unhappy with, then unfortunately, non-ETTL triggers and different off camera flashes are what you need to investigate. It's basically that simple.

[picturesque]

Re the Lightsphere--read the article at planetneil.com, under Techniques, if you haven't already. That should help you understand how to get soft light, if that is what you're after.

[christopher hartt dallas]

Nadine is pretty knowledgable, so don't discount her advice. But I disagree. The Quantum t5's put out 200ws and depending upon how you use that light, it's about 4x that of the 580EX2. I love the room-filling light of the bare bulb mode of the Quantum. Consider the use of a higher ISO setting coupled with the Quantum flash. I've never needed anything more for any large wedding venue I've ever shot. IMO, the Fong Sphere is all about "anti-efficiency" for flash units.

[picturesque]

Christopher--the T5D is 150 watt seconds, 160 guide number; the X5D is 200 or 400 watt seconds, but at 200 watt seconds, the guide number is still 160. Practically speaking, because it isn't quite apples to apples with a zoom head shoemount like th 580EX to a bare bulb two position reflectored flash like the Q flashes, the difference is about a stop to stop and a half for the 150 and 200 watt second units.

[christopher hartt dallas]

Well, I might be mistaken but my Quantum T5D manual says it is a 200ws unit. And the bare bulb does diffuse widely, but more directionally than the Fong Sphere. The final 'light on subject' is open to opinion, I guess. But IMO, the Quantum gives far more usable light than the 580EX2.

[picturesque]

Not to argue, Christopher--check the Quantum website specifications. And I won't argue re usable light. I use bare bulb, parabolic reflector flashes as off camera flashes too. This is a matter of opinion and is something Elizabeth needs to explore for herself.

[christopher hartt dallas]

Oh Nadine, I see where you're getting the 150, it is the "w/s 'bounce' equivalent" (from Quantum site). I'm not sure that is an apples-to-apples equivalent.

 

You are correct, it's a matter of opinion as to which is a more appropriate flash. For my wedding and portable studio photography, the Quantum flash is an indispensible "big brother" to 580EX2 Speedlights. And the Quantum remotes are radio as opposed to the finicky infra-red (line of sight) Canon transmitters.

[picturesque]

The following, toward the bottom, under specifications.

 

http://www.qtm.com/QFlash/?res_set=yes&res=1280&resh=1024

[bob_osullivan]

Elizabeth:

 

Your second post contained a dizzying round of questions. I couldn't even finish reading it because I'm only on my first cup of coffee...lol..

 

But seriously. There's so much to consider and you have enough questions that I have to say don't buy anything yet. There's a lot more reading and research you need to do.

 

You always HAVE TO USE MANUAL with monolights/pack strobes and the like. There is not a choice here.

 

Also, as Nadine pointed out, ETTL can be problematic because it is making judgment calls based on algorithms written by engineers who are no wedding photographers. These decisions are best made by the pro at the event, not by a chip in the camera or flash.

 

Once you decide flash is to be the key lighting at an indoor event, you really don't have to worry about constantly changing settings. You "Set it and forget it" to steal a line from Ron Popeil.

 

You will need a flash meter along with your strobes so budget for that. I find it extremely convenient to have a meter with a built in pocket wizard to fire the strobes.

 

Here's how it works in a nutshell. This is a hypothetical example which represents an average scene I run into.

 

Room (important area of room like dance floor and bridal party tables) = 40'x60'.

 

Place 2 monolights 320ws to 640ws with white bounce umbrellas 48" or 60" in corners on either side of band/dj. Alternately, if the ceiling is low and white remove umbrella's and point them at the ceiling for bounce. Attach one pocket wizzard to either one of the lights. The other will default to optical slave mode.

 

Use a Metz, Quantum or 580 in M mode on camera/bracket wired to local port on Pocket wizzard. Set pocket wizzard to fire both local and remote.

 

Set ISO I use anywhere from 100-400.

 

Set shutter anywhere from 1/80-1/200 depending on if you want to drag to get some of the other end of the room (non-lit end) exposed.

 

Meter from center of dance floor (best to do this before hand) and from corners. Set monolights so you get about F8.

 

Meter your on camera flash so you get F8 at the shooting distance you'll use for the dance shots. As the event progresses, you can simply adjust aperture to compensate for distance of shots if needed. That's only one setting to fiddle with.

 

This kind of setup simplifies things like ambient light coming through windows changing or changes in house lighting because your flash system is the key light. You do need to experiment.

 

But first, again, you need to read a lot and research lighting/metering.

[elizabeth_russell1]

Ok I think this is my last question......

I'm looking at the pocketwizard multimax transceiver because it seems to give more control.

If I get it I will be using it with my alien bees B400 and 580 I or II flashes.

Would I need to get a pocketwizard multimax transceiver for each flash or just the camera?

Is there anything else I would need such as cables..etc?