Too late for medium format?

[grodis]

I don't seem to have a problem keeping my fridge packed with 120 & 4 x 5 sheet. Developing 120 and scanning it isn't rocket science either. Do keep in mind most medium format cameras do have digital backs available from 20 to 60+ Megapixles. MF will surely out live a DSLR you buy today.

 

 

 

-Joe

[musings]

Hi Etaf -- I love MF and contend that it's not too late to make the jump into MF film. Getting 120/220 film and developement labs are certainly harder than it used to be but not impossible. You can always pick up a Mamiya or Contax 645 system now with a film back and then get a digital back later for it later if you like. Eventually, you will find a digital 645 system to be much easier to process as film becomes more scarce, but digital backs are still pretty expensive (the price decline is there, but moving at a slower pace due to the smaller market and fewer competitors). Cheers, Jeff

[western_isles]

I have both Hasselblad and Mamiya kit and will continue to use it. Moreover, Fuji/Cosina are just about to launch a new rangefinder film camera in medium format. I would not worry about film being available in 120/220 especially as Fuji do not appear to be.

 

Medium format is great, I hope that you take the plunge. I am sure that you will enjoy the experience.

[cheryl_malone]

Check out www.freestylephoto.biz for 120 film. I have ordered from them and they are quick and very professional.

[verivorax]

I just got an old Rollei and loved travelling and shooting with it. Look for expired film deals to get quantity for cheap. As others have said.. the more users of MF, the more film and processing will be available!

[william_livingston]

Do it--not too late. I just got a 500cm, couple of backs, and a 50mm for a very reasonable price. I take primarily landscapes so its perfect for me--will pick up a 150mm to do portraits assuming the economy dont kill me first. Always wanted a Hasselblad.

[somak_ray]

Though MF format films are still made their availability, particular at the time of your need may be somehow unpredictable. This however strongly depends on which part of the world you are in. In Germany and in US thats not a problem but cost has been definitely gone up and significantly in the last 6 years or so. I would suggest stockpiling you'r favourite films in a freezer if you're a low volume shooter like me. Possibly most non-pro users shoot less frames in a MF than one do in 35mm. Its because of small no. of shots/per roll , time required to reload and the cost. In turn that perfects your eye for composition and exposure. It's a great positive transition you'll feel after seeing the quality of even a 645.

 

For those who are from India:

The city of Calcutta, India, where I was born the supply of MF films is really in a sad state.No velvia or Provia, only Fuji ACROS and some generic NOVA, if you're lucky you may get some Reala. Seems that people are no longer interested in MF, something I regret for the city which still runs one of the oldest photo studio/business in the world estd. in 1860s. No wonder I see w2s advts. for Pentax 67, Hasselblad CM/CW and Linhof technika at dirt cheap rate. I was offered a very good P 67 with 55 and 90 mm plus wooden grip for around US$350

 

The silver line is BnH has a liasion office in Pune and one can procure from them:

http://www.bhindia.com/bhphotovideo.html

[philip_wilson]

I recently bought a Fuji 6x8 (Gx680) film camera and have used a Mamiya 645 Pro for some time. Film based MF cameras that cannot be upgraded to digital backs are very cheap and very high performance. your first choice is format size 645 if you hand hold and carry it a lot or 6x7 (or similar) for tripod work. The quality jump between 35mm and 645 is bigger than the jump between 645 and 6x7. Film is easily and cheaply available in North America - especially from the big NY stores like B&H or Adorama. Velvia 100 slide is very impressive but a pain to work with unless you buy the $2000 Nikon scanner (I only have the $1000 35mm one) as you have to get it scanned to pint (as any large print available in Canada are done digitally). I print film myself as I picked up an Omega enlarger cheap (although my wife objects to its massive size!). Of the 645 Cameras you cannot go wrong with a Mamiya which is cheap and readily available and the Contax is a steal (it can take a digital back). For larger format again Mamiya or Hasslebad are both supurb. I borrowed the Pentax 6x7 and it offers easy handling compared to the Mamiya RZ67 or Fuji Gx680 but is a compromise. I would be tempted by the Mamiya over the Pentax 645 as it is more available and cheaper (look at KEH). If you want really high quality glass look at the Contax or Hasslebad. the Contax being not much more than the Pentax (the bodies are less but lenses are more). If you are unsure buy a cheap Mamiya and trade up later

[ken_wayne1]

I know Hasselblad prices very well and for the most part it is absolutely a buyers market. You should RUN to buy Hasselblad ( if that's your choice ) and not delay. Prices will rise eventually ( gosh I hope so for my business' sake ) but right now you can get some stuff for extremely good prices.

[craig_shearman1]

What they have in stock at the local mall or drug store has absolutely nothing to do with what is still available. 120 is the second most commonly used film size after 35mm and while selection may narrow as time goes on is certainly still go to be with us for many years. This is the age of the Internet and FedEx so as long as there's one B&H photo or Freestyle to buy from and one lab to overnight film back and forth from, that's all that's really needed. I would not recommend MF for travel work because of the size and weight of the gear and the hassles of carrying any kind of film through airport security but that's ups to you. Keep in mind that 120 is a professional format and the film and processing are going to be at professional prices. As for Hassy vs. Pentax, that's no contest, go with the Hassy.

[rich_evans]

This has been a very motivating thread.

 

I sold all my Hassy stuff about 12 years ago because 35mm was less restrictive at weddings and events. While my clients did not notice, I found that I really missed the image quality of the larger film format. Over the ensuing years, I've been through the growing pains of getting into digital - anyone remember the Kodak DCS315?? - and now shoot all events relatively painlessly and with awesome results.

 

But there's still this nagging desire for the larger format of film again.

 

So.......ebay has been my friend, and I see that there's a few really really nice Mimiya 645 AFDs at very attactive prices.... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............... --Rich

[silverscape]

Too late for medium format? What? No way. I just got interested in 120 film recently, and I have to say that there does seem to be some kind of huge revival going on. Some people here are saying that prices are dropping...that is definitely NOT what I've been seeing. It seemed like no matter where I went, any 120 cameras were going for crazy prices. I was looking for a Yashica A. I went to 3 different camera shops, and 2 antique shops and the cheapest one I saw was $250! I finally bought one on eBay for $70 and even then I was nearly outbid...there were 14 bids on that camera. I also bought a Zeiss Ikon Nettar for $50, and I was nearly outbid on that one too. I don't know what's going on, but there seems to be a huge interest in medium format cameras all of a sudden.

 

Then you have the fad with the Holga and Diana cameras. Yeah, they're kind of lame, but the good thing is that they seem to be generating a lot of interest in 120 film.

 

So no, I don't think it's too late at all. 120 film isn't going anywhere. Yeah, maybe you can't walk into Walmart or a drug store and buy it...but you shouldn't have any trouble getting it. I know I can easily get it from the camera shop where I usually buy film and chemicals. In fact, if someone were just getting interested in trying medium format, I would say that the time to get a camera is now...because there seems to be growing interest and the prices are going UP!

[patrick j dempsey]

To address the issue of the availability of processing... if you shoot B&W... do it at home... if you shoot slide film... take it to the same place you take your 35mm slide film now. The hardest to find processing will be for C-41 processing, ironically the opposite of 35mm. Hassy prices on bodies are slipping but be sure to pay attention to all the parts... many people getting into used Hassy gear are finding that when they find good deals on used film backs it is because they have light leaks. So be sure to have a budget that includes solid backs and of course, lenses. The Mamiya 645 stuff, especially the older manaul focus stuff is dirt cheap right now and you can get into one of those systems for virtually nothing, and the bodies appear to be very reliable. I picked up one for $50 that looks like it's been dropped off of a building and the shutter and film advance runs flawlessly.

[anthony_zipple]

Personally I think that it is too late even though you will be able to get film for years to come. With the advent of 20+ MP, full frame 35mm sensors and good noise control in the body and in processing it becomes increasingly hard to tell the difference between MF and 35mm prints, even at 16x20. That being said, my 16 year old daughter is a film fanatic and loves MF. It has great niche appeal and will survive in small to modest ways for some time to come.

[john_biskupski]

While I love my 5D and its practicality, it still keeps me in the realm of fast 35mm shooting, and so I too turned to MF since a year ago in order to slow down, think and improve my photography, especially in terms of composition and understanding exposure. This in turn is improving my shooting with the 5D!

 

If you do decide to take the plunge into MF, I'd recommend either an old-timer type camera like a Rollei TLR, which is easy to use and gives excellent 6x6 results and is easy to travel with, and/or a system with a future DB upgrade path, eg the Mamiya 645, Hassy 503/203, or Rollei 6008 series, etc. My favourite travel combo is a TLR + 903 SWC, or Mamiya 6 or 7 with a pair of lenses. Most MF prices are still softening, it depends on the model, scarcity, whether there is an upgrade path, etc.

 

There will undoubtedly be a decline in the range of 120 film availability, but MF shooters will adapt. Currently, I develop my own B&W, there is no shortage of good colour processors here in UK, I scan with V750 flatbed, but I am also building up a full wet darkroom set up at low second hand prices. It may also be wise to 'double up' on key items, ie add a second camera body, or a second Jobo CPE-2 processor, for future parts availability. Wait till you see your MF images, then you'll know you were right to make the move!

[erie_patsellis]

Anthony,

I'm curious as to the logic, larger photosites (MF & LF backs) inherently have lower noise, have more lax lens sharpeness requirements, and have a more 3d look to them, as well as greater dynamic range. The best noise processing is not having it in the first place, in my opinion.

 

Film still can do things that digital just can't, including long exposures and the like. As I said previously, they both have their place.

[jack_welsh]

As for buying your first medium format. I have a Mamiya C220, Mamiya Universal, 8 Yashica TLR's several folders

and a 6x9 Speed Graphic. What did I do several months ago?Bought a Mamiya RB67 pro-s! I'm just saying that if

you want a MF, get it. What you want, that's all that counts.

About the comments that digital is better. I'm not saying what's better than what. But, I will say that the high

megapixel digitals cost a great deal. I bought my RB67 in E+ condition with a 220 film back for $166.00 The

only "marks" are on the memo clip on the film back.

Adorama said body with waist level finder. At that price and condition, I thought I would have to buy a revolving back.

But, it came with the RB back AND the film holder!

[chris_koon2]

I shoot with medium format all the time. I have a Pentax 6x7 system that I picked up a couple of years ago for $1200.

Camera, 3 lenses, pentax spot meter. You can't beat that. I've since purchased several more lenses in excellent quality on

ebay. (You have to be careful here!) I buy 120 film at my local pro-store in Cincinnati and have it developed at a pro-lab here.

Sometimes I use Dwayne's in Parsons, Kansas. I also buy film from B&H. I have never encountered any problems. I shoot

mostly Velvia and occasionally color prints. I also shoot TMax and develop and print my own B&W in the darkroom. Digital

cannot begin to equal the quality of true B&W silver print.

[thomas_hardy1]

Not only is it NOT too late, there is a new medium format camera on the way!

 

[cheryl_jacobs]

I shoot with medium and large format only. Don't worry about the alarmists preaching doomsday messages where film is

concerned. You'll be fine. Do what you love.

 

- CJ

[wayne_eardley1]

Whats old is new again...I recently did a shoot for a client who wanted film. I backed it up with my 5D RAW- was truly amazing how much better the film (NPH) looked. These were environmental portraits with various light indoors and out. Digital is defenately a wonderfull thing...so are Big Macs when your in a hurry, but a 5 star meal cooked by an expert is simply in another league...help us all out- shoot film and report back!<div></div>

[etaf_khan]

WOW!!!!! I'm truly overwhelmed by the detailed and well thought our responses! I'm also happy that this didn't turn into a digital vs film debate. I'm now so certain that I'll be getting a Hasselblad system (to begin with) and perhaps later adding a Pentax 645 system for a bit more versatility and ease of use.

 

Ironically, I already have a Rollei MF slide projector... but no camera to shoot with. I'm now going to look into whats available on KEH... as i've had good experience with them.

 

Thank you to everyone that has given me such good feedback. I'm reading every word that comes into this thread, so if anyone has anything more to add, i'll be checking back regularly.

[Member69643]

Keep in mind that all these "experts" don't know squat about the future of film. The die-hard digital advocate says film is dead or dying. The die-hard film fanatic will advise that the future of film is not at all dim. The truth is somewhere in the middle. If you find yourself an inexpensive Rolleicord or Yashicamat you can try medium format out and you're only out a couple hundred bucks, if that. And if they stopped making film you'd have a paperweight. So what? We have fun, in life, by doing things that are a challenge, or simply unique. You won't regret buying a film camera instead of a digital, that's for sure, because digital will be here whenever you want it. So, maybe, will film.<div></div>

[anthony_zipple]

Erie, of course you are correct that each has advantages. All of life is a compromise. LP's haves some advantages over CD's but it is clear that (with the exception of small niches) it is too late for LP's. My point is that digital has passed the tipping point for the large majority of uses. And the number of remaining uses for which film is better than digital are shrinking each year as digital technology improves. There is a reason besides clever marketing that there are so many MF systems around at bargain prices and the new digital bodies are snapped up instantly. The market (meaning serious photographers) have increasingly seen that film, while having some advantages in a small number of circumstances, is not as good a product for the very large majority of used. In terms of functional advantages film is approaching a dead end. That being said, film will be around for a long time.... like LP's... and everyone who prefers it should enjoy it.

[erie_patsellis]

Bad analogy for me, I have over 1200 albums, and probably as many CDs, there is no comparison, with vinyl winning

out for overall quality in areas of imaging and tonal accuracy. (yes, I have better than most audio equipment,

and a real turntable does make a huge difference), but I really can't use LPs in the van, either.

 

As I said, to each their own, I maintain at least a years stock of film and chemistry at any given time, and

process all of it in house.

 

Here's one of my standard test subjects for moire, only film and my scan backs get it right without post work

(this is downsized from a 35mb scan back file)

 

<img src="http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/epatsellis/nikon%20300/test1.jpg" border="0" alt="test1.jpg">