Annual Income Question

[penn10]

As an average wedding photographer, say you make $2,000 per wedding and book 40 weddings a year, that's just

$80K, nothing too exciting, isn't it?

 

Say you make $3,000 per wedding, that will make it $120K, better. But this is based on 40 solid bookings a year,

that's a lot.

 

Not to mention insurance, healthcare, equipment, and many other costs.

 

So just how much do you full-time photographers make in a year? And are you happy with the level of your income?

[jautey]

A persons income is nobodies business but that persons and the tax man.

Its a rude question.

Try asking, "Do you make a comfortable 'Living' at photography?"

You're apt to get more replies.

[joshroot]

40 is a lot of weddings for most photographers. Both in terms of burn-out and exhaustion and in terms of marketing/scheduling/etc.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

You've already done the math :-)

 

It's not an easy way to make a living. Most truck drivers can earn more.

[penn10]

OK, re-phrase: do most of you full-time wedding photographer believe you are making a comfortable living based on your own standard?

[sam_ellis]

While I consider myself a full-time photographer at 34 weddings this year, I am also a high school teacher. That being said, my income from photography is close if not more than my income from teaching. It's enough that my wife is a stay-at-home mom and professional volunteer with cub scouts, PTO, church, etc.

 

For next year, I've raised my prices and plan to scale back. I'm wiping myself out doing 2 weddings a weekend this fall. I don't do many weddings from December to April.

 

I've contemplated moving into beach portraits, senior portraits, etc., but just don't have the time. If I wasn't a teacher, I would say that I would do these other outlets to generate more income.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

When I used to shoot for a couple of large wedding studios I was averaging 40 weddings per year which was part-time while I continued to work a regular full time job. Now, that was also during the days of film so I didn't have the extra work of post-processing and the studio handled sales, albums and such.

 

Altho you've rephrased the question, it's still asks the central question....except now you're asking if it's comfortable :-)

[savagesax]

Yes, we shoot a lot more then 40 weddings though. We hire other pros that want to pick up some extra bucks.

[wclark5179]

A wedding photography business is like many entrepreneurial small businesses. Some are successful while others are

not. As a business owner I have to wear many hats, juggling many different colored and size balls in the air at the same

time. Several important ingredients come to mind as I type this; time management, getting clients I want to get,

educating them on what I offer and why they should hire me, always looking to improve my art, realizing what tasks I

can/should and not/shouldn't do, keeping quality & happy people who work with me.

 

I've learned it's not so much how many weddings and/or other gigs I do but what is my bottom line profit is per event.

 

Operating your own business has its rewards as well as its own pitfalls but I love what I do and I wouldn't have it any

other way.

[neilambrose]

<p>The successful photographer works the question backwards. They figure out the income they want and the number of weddings they're prepared to undertake, and arrive at a price per wedding after factoring operating costs and taxes. They then build a business plan and marketing campaign that brings in that level of work.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

You can probably earn more as an Investment Banker. Oh, well, maybe not *this* year!

[penn10]

Thanks for all the answers!

 

David from Chicago, did you quit your regular job and now a full-time pro? How's the transition?

 

The reason I am asking this is that I've been talking to a buddy who is a part-time wedding photographer who has a regular job, a java developer. He makes about $90K a year already and just started wedding photography part-time, doing pretty well for a starter. So the question is what makes everybody transition from part-time to full-time? I am sure money must be an important factor, don't you need to keep the same income level?

[david_schilling___chicago_]

"David from Chicago, did you quit your regular job and now a full-time pro? How's the transition?"

 

Frank, a couple of years ago I did make the transition to full time pro but that was after having shot several hundred weddings for established studios so I was very familiar with typical studio practices and customer service/sales. I also kept my license & certification active from my first carreer along with a part-time job. As much as I enjoyed it, it was a ton of work to maintain the mortgage, childcare, etc...

Finally. I had a tremendous opportunity to go back to healthcare full-time at the same time that I had gotten fed-up competing with the "craiglist" and "churn & burn" photographers so now I'm just shooting the occassional wedding. I also have several friends who own studios and have watched them go through big changes in the last few years. It's almost impossible to operate a storefront studio without having several photographers on staff and shooting high volume while also getting the seniors" and family portraiture market. I witnessed one studio close it's doors and the owner just went to the website/home studio model.

 

The business is going through significant changes that in many ways mirrors the disapperrance of the downtown "mom & pop" stores and the erosion of the mega malls. I'll let you guess how I feel about IT guys making $90K a year dabbling part-time in the field competing with friends of mine that still have a mortgage, healthcare costs, and hope to send their kids to college. In the meantime, I don't agree with everything in this article but it does have some important truths: http://www.sonopp.com/Perspectives/Devaluing/Devaluing.htm

[hassy501]

Dave is so correct........i'm contemplating closing my studio and doing the home/business of small office cheap rent only plan. Leases are too expensive, time spend away from home is enormous. Being a business owner has it's upsides and pitfalls. You don't have to answer to any supervisors or bosses. You decide your own fate. But you are ultimately responsible for every penny you make.

 

Some people are made to work for others, some are not..........

[penn10]

A great article indeed, thanks David!

 

Going back to the topic about IT guys making 90K dabbing part-time in the field competing with friends of yours who still have a mortgage, healthcare, etc. Are you saying the IT guy should not do it? I mean if he has the talent as a photographer, than why not? Who wouldn't want to make an extra buck? I am sure if your friend knows how to Java programming, he wouldn't mind picking up some part-time projects for a lower cost than regular IT guy, no?

[davidspady]

In response to the article

 

http://www.sonopp.com/Perspectives/Devaluing/Devaluing.htm

 

There seems to be a trend that many photographers are somehow bitter with the advent of digital photography and the interest it has sparked in many young photographers. Photography is probably more popular now than it ever has been

yet some wish it were still the days when it was just an "elite few" that had "patience" and "mastery" to excel is such a profession/hobby.

 

Whatever ...

 

If you want to read an article by someone who recognizes the changes that digital has brought to the industry and embraces them rather than whines about them, read the article "The Sky is Falling" by Vincent Laforet.

 

http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2014.

 

As for formal studio pictures ... we have thousands of shots of my family though the years. They're all candids and I wouldn't trade one of them in for a well lit formal studio shot. Formals have nice lighting, but candids are real. It seems odd to me that someone would rag against new styles of photography believing only his traditional style is the correct and dignified one. It doesn't strike me as a very effective business model.

[eric merrill]

Frank:

 

Sounds like you can already do the math, but you're only doing some of it.

 

Keep in mind that after you get that $120k, you need to deduct expenses. It wouldn't surprise me to

see expenses eat up about 50% of that. Down to $60k. Need to account for self-employment tax.

Knock that down to $55k. Take out the part of health insurance and dental insurance that most

employers pay, and you're down to $35k if you are supporting a family of four. (That's not to say you

still won't have insurance costs...just to get you down to the point where most employees start. You'll

still need to pay for some insurance out of the $35k.)

 

So 40 weddings a year at $3k apiece = $35k of taxable income.

 

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos264.htm#earnings

 

For 2006 data, your scenario above puts your hypothetical photographer in the upper reaches of the

middle 50%. I don't think the average photographer shoots 40 $3k weddings, though.

 

 

Eric

[david_schilling___chicago_]

"Are you saying the IT guy should not do it? I mean if he has the talent as a photographer, than why not?"

 

I'm not saying the IT should or shouldn't do it. I'm saying that Uncle Bobs, IT guys, and soccer moms doing wedding photography on the side as nothing more than supplemental income has had an effect on the profession. A couple of years ago I invited an IT guy who had shot a few weddings to shadow me at a weddding and take some shots. Truth be told, his website was way slicker than mine and had some really great images...I have no doubt that if he applied for membership with APJA his membership/website would have been approved despite his lack of experience. Unfortunately I wasn't able to use any of his images in the final package. However, he had a great website, a good folio, and some of the best business cards I've ever seen.

 

I've got a reputation for being hard on newbies. Truth is I like newcomers, I wish them the best and encourage them to complete an internship, get pro training, network with pros, join PPA/WPPI etc.... The problem is that when they post their images saying they've shot their first wedding, 2nd weddding, etc...it almost always looks like someone who just shot their first or 2nd wedding. Without the benefit of pro training it's rare that they can appreciate pro-level feedback. I also believe the term photographer is used much too loosely. Anyone that can't explain basic lighting principles including light ratios has no business calling themselves a "photographer"....course here on P-net, the goal is to keep things friendly and PC. I try.

 

BTW, I'm not anti-digital or whining about wanting a return to the old days, indeed there's never been a more exciting time to be shooting than now. PS allows us to do things in seconds that would take hours in the darkroom and many things that were totally not possible to do at all. But I can also appreciate a conversation with some other "older" pros who would understand what it meant when we would "stack" our film for some fun double exposure images.

[francie_baltazar]

David - I agree with you - I minored in photography in the early 80's and have played around with it as a serious amature for all those years just this past year I took the plung, closed my consulting business which was very successful to persue my passion - I supliment my wedding business with commercial business which makes for a nice balance - do a few portraits and lots of children photos... it's about a bit of diversification and being professional in the business not getting a Rebel calling it a 400D, shooting on auto JPEG then thinking I can shoot a wedding because Uncle Joe likes my photos.... with no training or experience or IMHO no eye for shooting or eye for critical editing of your own materials you are not a professional photographer.... I think you can make a healthly living if you are good at what you do, price effectively for your market and have a good business sense about you... interesting topic...

[William Michael]

Frank, the original question:

 

I am having much more fun at this time, being paid a flat fee to shoot a few Weddings on contract, (about two a

month), for my old studio than what I would now owning the studio and all the headaches.

 

But, yes, I enjoyed the three Studios I built and I made a good living from them: but we shot more than just

Weddings: I would not have survived solely on Weddings, but Weddings were our main draw.

 

Being a little pedantic, I am very careful with words when discussing business performance. Often people in their own

business, mistake ``make`` with ``take``:

 

In my simplistic accounting terms there is only:

 

. Turnover (the total money we ``take`` in)

 

. Net Profit (is what we ``make``: the total of what is remaining after ALL expenses INCLUDING my wages,

superannuation, benefits, etc are paid)

 

What I am getting at is, if I want / need a salary of, for example $80,000 pa (Gross) and the business, after paying

that salary to me, is continuously making a LOSS of $20,000 pa, then in reality, I am paying out $20,000 pa for the

pleasure of owning a business: I do not think that makes good sense.

 

***

 

On the other course of this thread, previously I have made many comments similar to David Schilling: and I am again

in concert with most of his comments above.

 

Recently I actively back off on many comments I might have made on this forum in response to some newbie

questions; I think David makes a very good point that, often lack of professional experience renders an inexperienced

person less able to appreciate unbiased and unemotional professional critique and or advice.

 

Also the written word lacks nuance of facial expression, timbre and tone.

 

I think that often plain-talking, honest advice from the experienced is misinterpreted . . . . and flares ignite.

 

On the other matter of keeping issues, intercourse and debates Politically Correct, I try very hard too, but I am not

very good at it.

 

I tend to want to call a spade a spade and I have previously done so, with a sledgehammer, (oops) :).

 

On the whole though, I think those new comers who want to really get a variety of valuable opinions can do so, here.

 

***

 

On the matter of the industry / profession: personally I think there is still good money to be made in W&P.

 

I think one key, is finding the niche market which suits you and the demographic you service.

 

This is not a revolutionary idea: all businesses are tight at the moment, some tighter than others . . . in such times,

IMO, it is especially better to be in a niche, it might be a smaller overall pie, but essentially, you have all of it, to

yourself.

 

Also a niche business is often easier to grow with simple word of mouth, because the niche itself is one of the

unique qualities.

 

WW

[pulpmojo]

very few people make $80/$120K in this business. And if ever they do, you can be sure it took years to get to that point. I did this full-time, as my only source of income for about a year (I've been in business for 2) and I loved the lifestyle it afforded me. I did most of my work (i.e the post-processing) at home so it allowed me to spend a lot of time with my newborn daughter. It also provided me with plenty of time to pursue other interests and passions that I have. And best of all, I have no boss to deal with. Of course I have my clients to answer to but that's a completely different type of relationship. Financially speaking though I was really struggling to pay for the essentials, i.e. food, clothing, shelter. I finally had to get a night job to help pay the rent and other necessities. And I'll probably be hanging on to it until the slow winter season is over. Although who knows, it's kind of nice to finally have a little disposable income available, so maybe I'll hang on to it a little longer.

[maria_hopstetter]

My photography business is a side business for me. My husband's check pays for all of our financial responsibilities. I mostly have my wedding photography business for extra cash for the family...some new clothes, stuff that we wouldn't be able to afford just on his check. Plus it gives us the "cushion" income...meaning if something goes wrong in terms of health or family emergency, we have the money from the weddings to help us out. I only do two weddings a month...any more and I seem to feel burnt out after awhile. I recently this past summer did more than four wedding in a month...then the next was three...by July..I was glad to have three weeks off...it will be a few more years until I start charging enough to really enjoy the perks. right now it is getting us by.