Grim times for Leica

[fred_obturateur]

And we should never forget to "thank" the bright mind who separated the photo branch of Leitz from all the others (medical stuff, binoculars) and let it live and fund it by itself. Remember the "Ein Stück" limited M6?

 

s

[david_f._stein]

Contax. Yashica. Konica. Minolta no longer make cameras. Andy K had an interesting point "They obviously don't

have much of a licensing stream from their badge-engineered products with Panasonic." Yes, I was surprised that

the WSJ reporter didn't talk about the profit center for designing/selling brand rights to its Panasonic lenses.

We see Schneider, Zeiss, Leica, maybe Rodenstock names on digital camera lenses. Does it really mean anything.

The article was more focused on the CEO's personality. Zeiss, I take it, is a total imaging company like

Olympus, (Ricoh? Nikon?) with products for many industries. It doesn't look like we are going to see the digital

RF many would enjoy-what's wrong with prime lenses? Couldn't Leica concentrate on creating lenses for other

digital SLR mounts. This is what digital photography needs, more variety and idiosyncrasy of lenses.

[emraphoto]

hey jeff,

 

i'm really a big, big fan of those big, bright viewfinders. i like viewfinders in general. i shoot A LOT with the 15mm heliar

and a 21mm finder.... LLLLOOOOOVVVVVEEEE it.

 

i spent a lot of time on an m and i'm into the KISS vibe (KeepItSimpleStupid).

 

i am not in the position to shoot film. i shoot, i file...

 

there have been numerous times an m has gotten me into, next to, close to, in position for, un-noticed by, fill in the rest

here.

 

i have a considerable investment in m stuff, wanna run with it.

 

if you've ever carried gear, and i mean GEAR for long periods of time then you don't need me to finish this.

 

i love, and i mean LOVE a camera i can stick in a pocket and go... a camera that does what i need it to do. digital point

and shoots aren't cuttin' it for me yet.

 

^^^a few of my reasons

 

there is a lot of noise about and i understand full well how one can get the impression it's an un-reliable camera. all i

know is that my m8 has not skipped a beat ONCE since i first fired the shuttter and i do not treat it kindly at all. i'm also

not the only one. im really not a fierce loyalist, or rabid defender of leica. i have had my own very well documented beefs

with leicausa... what i don't understand is why my, and a few of my friends experience has been so different? i mean

these are cameras that get worked with a capital W!

 

all i can say is this, so far the m8 has been totally 100% reliable for me.

 

i do agree with david. leica should focus (pardon the pun) on fast primes for f mount, ef mount etc. make some money

and expand the resources for bettering the m mount digital rf (in whatever form it takes).

 

cheers

john

[sitemistic]

"i love, and i mean LOVE a camera i can stick in a pocket and go"

 

You must have a lot bigger pockets than I have. An M with just about any modern fast lens is too big for a pocket and

heavier than many digital SLR's. :(

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

Fair enough Jon, thankyou for taking the time.

 

It sounds like the digital M is working out for you. You must be the type of shooter the camera was designed for, the viewfinder "fetish" and all. ;) Seriously, continued good luck, and thanks again!

[peteradownunder]

Fang<p> all these <i>things</i> cameras, cars, they are just - things. Comparing this versus that feature and

building up an imaginary utility curve based on price divided by some aggregate set of features and comparing

that too another camera with a different price divided over a set of aggregate features and therefore trying to

become a value investor with a camera PE and preaching that <i> rationale</i> doesn't make your preference

universally rational or even relevant - it is just your way of approaching a decision.<p> You seem to dwell on

notions like value or rationale or relative performance -when really most people just like this versus that

because they do. Oh don't get me wrong , people who think that objects somehow bestow on them some kind of

<i>superior standing</i>are just as funny - but criticizing these beliefs is a strange kind of obsession, as if

there was some kind of universal moral high ground about such matters...<p>

all this argument bout not much...

[emraphoto]

jim,

the m8 and 40mm cron fits into my jacket pocket perfectly.

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<jim, the m8 and 40mm cron fits into my jacket pocket perfectly.>

 

But you M8 shooters have deep pockets. :)

[35mmdelux]

during the middle ages serfs would discuss how many angels could fit thru the eye of a needle. this is such a pointless discussion.

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<during the middle ages serfs would discuss how many angels could fit thru the eye of a needle. this is such a pointless discussion.>

 

Pointless how? It's "pointless" to just say it's pointless and then run away without adding something that makes a point.

 

Leica is in a fight for its existence as a company, and it's pointless to post that article and discuss it?

 

People at this site never cease to disappoint me. I have to wonder where photographers (posters here) come from.

[ray .]

Jeffrey, have you ever used a Leica rangefinder or any rangefinder at all? Maybe the question you ask should be posed to

you.

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<Jeffrey, have you ever used a Leica rangefinder or any rangefinder at all? Maybe the question you ask should be posed to you.>

 

Yes Ray, I have, why do you ask? Do you think this is a pointless thread?

 

I had two M6s I bought new in the early to mid 90s: one black, one silver, and a 35 Summicron and 90 Summarit. I sold the whole kit, at a painful loss, to finance a Hasselblad 501CM outfit.

 

The 35 Summicron is, without a doubt and without a question, the finest 35mm lens I've ever had the pleasure of using. The creamy bokeh was awe-inspiring. I have a couple pictures hanging in my living room taken with that lens.

 

The cameras were lovely too, but I discovered that I'm just not a rangefinder photographer.

[Peter_in_PA]

Wow,

 

You guys argue about Leica too much. It's just a camera.

 

From the article.

 

[Mr. Kaufmann estimates that annual sales have to climb by about two-thirds to at least €250 million to finance the R&D spending

for Leica to survive in an industry that rolls out improved digital cameras every few months.]

 

Do you all think that Leica can increase sales by two thirds?

 

and [Henry Posner, communications director at Manhattan-based B&H Photo-Video, says Leica's lenses are "spectacular" and its

cameras "jewel-like." But he notes that excellent cameras are available for hundreds instead of thousands of dollars. When it

comes to younger consumers, Leica typically is "not part of the conversation."]

 

Indeed they are not a part of any discussion I've had about cameras with anyone... ever... except for the one single die-hard leica

user I have ever personally known... A guy who shoots his Minolta AF camera when he wants things "easy"...

 

I'm curious, if Leica goes down, what will you Leica-philes do? I'm not trying to inflame anyone, I'm genuinely curious! I shoot

Nikon. If they went away, I'd go right to Canon and feel just fine about it.

[el_fang]

<i>Where did you hear this, from a photo.net troll using a pseudonym, who has never used an M8 and bases his

image quality judgements on in-camera jpeg files?</i>

 

<p>What the illustrious Herr is referring to is Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times photographer <a

href="http://web.mac.com/kamberm/Leica_M8_Field_Test,_Iraq/Page_1.html" target="_blank">Michael Kamber's review

of the M8 in the field</a>. Again - the review is from the standpoint of a working photojournalist who needs to

get his files to his bureau as soon as possible. Speed is of the essence in this day and age of digital in

photojournalism, where the wires will run the first pictures to get the exclusive (and therefore the most page

hits, and the most advertising revenue, etc.) I've pointed out that this is one of the reasons why the M8 fails

as a professional photojournalist's tool - the out-of-camera jpgs require too much work whereas those from even a

digital Rebel are almost always ready to use with minimal or no post processing.</p>

 

<p>But then, if you're an amateur who can afford to waste hours every shoot polishing RAW files, or a few months

twiddling

your thumbs while your camera is serviced in Germany, then the M8 may very well be the camera for you.</p>

 

<p><i>Here's a link to an early M8 user's report, using pre-production firmware:

http://leica-users.org/v32/msg15514.html. The start-up bugs the trolls keep reminding us of are things of the

past.</i></p>

 

<p>To balance things out, here are some links to discussions regarding the M8 by working, published photographers

who actually rely on their cameras to get the job done, as opposed the fawning from the Leica User's Group.</p>

 

<p><a href="http://www.lightstalkers.org/leica_m8___is_it_any_good" target="_blank">Leica M8 - Is it any good?</a>

 

<br><a href="http://www.lightstalkers.org/leica-m82" target="_blank">Leica M8.2</a>

 

<br><a href="http://www.lightstalkers.org/kamber-s-leica-m8-field-test-iraq" target="_blank">Regarding Kamber's

Leica M8 Field Test</a></p>

 

<p>The Leica User's Group is amateur hour, and a biased one at that. Lightstalkers is where real professionals

meet to talk about the real working world of photojournalism. Participants include Magnum and VII photographers

as well as

regular contributors to publications like Time, Newsweek and Stern. There are one or two pros, like Bruno

Stevens, who like the camera and make excuses for its shortcomings, but the overwhelming majority of these

professionals who have used the M8 don't think of it very highly as a tool, to put it lightly.</p>

[musings]

Hi Peter -- I see your point and it's perfectly valid. If Leica went under, the photo world would not shut down and people would still be shooting photos. Plus, there would still be enough Leica gear on the secondary market to keep afficionados happy. However, it would be a shame to see such a legendary name go away. I guess I'm just nostalgic about these kinds of things. And perhaps this is where Leica belongs...waxing nostalgia...

 

Not ready to say RIP yet, but it sure looks like Leica is heading there.

[marc_bergman1]

Michael Kamber hasn't won a Pulitzer Prize.

 

He has been nominated for the Pulitzer Prize in both photography and reporting.

 

He is a Leica photographer that has violated the Prime Directive. He must be punished. ;<)

[doug herr]

El Fang wrote: "<I>What the illustrious Herr is referring to is Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times photographer Michael Kamber's

review of the M8 in the field</I>"

<P>

Nope. I'm referring to El Fang, the troll who in a recent thread posted a poorly-focused in-camera jpg from his camera and posited that

showing photos such as his on the web was how to determine if Camera A's image quality was better than Camera B's.

<P>

El Fang continues: "<I> the review is from the standpoint of a working photojournalist who needs to get his files to his bureau as soon

as possible. Speed is of the essence in this day and age of digital in photojournalism, where the wires will run the first pictures to get the

exclusive (and therefore the most page hits, and the most advertising revenue, etc.)</I>"

<P>

Exactly correct. Speed to the wires is all and image quality is a distant second.

<P>

Fang continues: "<I>To balance things out, here are some links to discussions regarding the M8 by working, published photographers

who actually rely on their cameras to get the job done, as opposed the fawning from the Leica User's Group.</I>"

<P>

Apparently Fang hasn't been reading the Leica Users Group postings. Discussion of Leica equipment has at times been heated with

many divergent opinions.

<P>

Fang again: "<I>The Leica User's Group is amateur hour, and a biased one at that.</I>"

<P>

Try actually reading the posts, Fang. There are many many professional photographers actively participating in the LUG discussions,

using <B>every</B> imaginable brand and type of equipment: pinholes, photocopiers, 11x14 view cameras, home-made 4x5 TLR

cameras, Pentax, Oly, Rollei, Minolta/Sony, Leica, Hasselblad, Nikon, Panasonic and even Canon. In fact Leica use isn't required, you

could even join in if you wished. I'll bet the likes of <A HREF="http://tedgrantphoto.com/" target="_blank">Ted Grant</A> and <A

HREF="http://www.tinamanley.smugmug.com/" target="_blank">TIna Manley</A> would be very surprised to hear that they are

amateurs. And, unlike Fang's posts on photo.net, very few are ever insulted for their camera choice no matter what brand, nor for being an

amateur.

[jorge_diaz]

Hmm Looking at my cristal ball I see a digital CL for $1500 restoring the brand to the masses .

[emraphoto]

"But then, if you're an amateur who can afford to waste hours every shoot polishing RAW files, or a few months twiddling your thumbs

while your camera is serviced in Germany, then the M8 may very well be the camera for you."

 

again with the nonsense mr fang... i shoot wire service. i use an m8. since i have owned it i have never had to "polish" raw files or tiddle

my thumbs. perhaps folks would take you seriously if you stick to the facts and stop with the m8 mis-information station.

[peteradownunder]

Hey Fango - looks like Leica has been listening to you and are announcing a new camera and lens range - check it out baby and let your eyeballs bleed! -:0) smile Fango - smile!

[michael s.]

Guessing you'll have one of the <a href=http://www.professionalphotographer.co.uk/professional-photographer-news/leica-s2> new Leica S2's</a> in your hands within a month after they go on sale, Pete. How can you resist ? :-)

[akochanowski]

Petey, just once I ought to act the badass that I am and get me one of those. Just one look at that black bazooka lens and that red dot and the models will be begging for portfolios. Let the whiny liberal decaf sippers play with their retro cropped M cams. Real men want a big sensor.

[musings]

Wow, the S2 KICKS ASS! Man, that is a thing of beauty. Part MF, part 35mm...great concept and nice to see Leica leading into some new territory here. And nine lenses to go with it, too...including a T&S for those architectural types. Rock on!!!!

[ray .]

That thing looks like it'd get about 5 miles per gallon.

[peteradownunder]

Gentlemen , this system is going to seriously rock the boat of MF manufacturers - a partnership with Phase One will also tick a lot of boxes regarding service and availablity etc etc..in camera native DNG processing removes the proprietory RAW format tango that is such a bother with my Hasselblad files and Phase One files..<p>

 

Michael - mine is already on order - I am soooo relieved I ditched all my R stuff 9 months ago - so the cash is already in the bank waiting..!!<p>

 

Andy - its about time you stopped being a weenie tightwad with gear/ gave in to your dark side and lashed out..come to the dark side LOL - mine is already on order and I can hook you up with the best Phase One dealer in the States - outstanding service knowledgeable tech heads and nice guys.