andrey_belo Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 I am having a problem today.I use an Ebony SV45 and just bought a Schneider Super-Angulon f8 65mm lens.Going out into the street with views for several hundred feet I could not find the focus for this lens.I had the camera draw at maximum with the front and rear standard blocks touching....the maximum draw,with wide angle bellows.Am I doing something wrong,or is maybe the rear element the wrong one?I am baffled and could do with advice.Thanks in advance for your wealth of knowledge.A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal_shields Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 According to their web site: http://www.ebonycamera.com/cam.html you shouldn't need a recessed lens board until you get to a 47mm lens. <p> I don't have a 65mm Schneider but on my 90, the last 4 digits of the serial number on the front element are repeted on the outside of the lens ring on the rear element. Do yours match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis_jensen Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 It sounds like you need to tip the front standard back as far as you can before moving the two standards together. Also, for vertical shots, you may need to tip both standars back to avoid taking a picure of the end of the bed of the camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro3 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Before you go tipping standards etc, why don't you take a tape measure with you, measure 65 cm from the film plane to nodal point of the lens(usually the nodal point is at the middle of the lens, where the shutter is, hopefully this design is like this, but it should be close) and this should be your focus point at infinity. After that, you should be able to see the focus changing as you focus on objects closer than infinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrey_belo Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 Thanks for your answers guys,but this doesn't solve the problem.Louis,I don't understand your answer very well,excuse me...I don't think 65mm is so wide as to be so extreme with the handling.The camera bed is fairly short so no probs with it cropping up in shots.As far as the serial numbers go the rear element has no numbers at all.Should I be suspicious?I bought it from Photo-Graphic systems in New Mexico along with a 180/315 convertible symmar,the first of which was sent missing a cable release socket and had to be replaced.Could they have mis-matched elements?I can't see why I cannot find focus...it comes quite close but there is no room for any more focus.Any ideas????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro3 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 What do you mean it comes quite close? does it touch the GG, does it overextend the bellows?I have a Linhof TK and frequently use my nikon 65 mm without need of a recessed board, etc. You should be able to focus this lens easily but you need to tell us exactly what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrey_belo Posted December 4, 2001 Author Share Posted December 4, 2001 Jorge.Thanks for your time.....here is exactly what is happening... the lens is mounted normally;wide angle bellows fitted...I roll the front standard ALL THE WAY BACK to the rear standard as far as it will go....the lens does not touch the GG....the lensboard is about 8cm from the film plane.Now in my books I should be able to focus on something on a wide street scene.Even in my home I cannot get the thing to focus across the room (20 feet) or on anything between.I am using the maximum draw for this camera.As has been stated a recessed lensboard should not be needed for this focal length.It seems that it would solve the problem as a quarter turn of the focusing knob seems to be all that is needed....but I have just paid $50 for a new lensboard and had it drilled and am loath to search for a recessed one with a 00 cut.To me it seems that there is a problem with the rear element.....it was on sale at half price and I paid $325 for it,which raises my suspicians further.Anyone have any ideas?Most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_galli4 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Try taking your ground glass off the camera, take the lens off the camera, go into a dark room and turn on a bright light. With the lens wide open move it back and forth towards the ground glass until you see your light get sharp in the fround glass. It's got to focus somewhere. If it doesn't, start looking inside the lens for obvious damage and/or mis-alignments. Schneiders site will show you a diagram of what is supposed to be inside that lens. http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_len ses/super-angulon/data/8-65mm.html Oops no diagram. Try the modern 90/8 SA page and see if there's a diagram. http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_len ses/super-angulon/ This page will allow you to open a PDF that shows the elements in a 90/8 Super Angulon which should be similar to yours. Best of Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro3 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Jim's suggestion is the easiest way to find the focal length of any optics, so if I were you I would try this first, if you measure the distance from the lens to the "focused" sharp light and it is more than 65 cm, then the lens is bad and get your money back. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_gasteazoro3 Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 Sorry, BTW you can use the ground glass as Jim suggest, or just focus the bright light on the wall.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill C Posted December 4, 2001 Share Posted December 4, 2001 It might be easier to just remove the lens,take it outside and focus the sun on the sidewalk (like kids might do trying to burn a leaf). This will be the distance needed from lens to ground glass for infinity focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_galli4 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 "the lens does not touch the GG....the lensboard is about 8cm from the film plane" You may have answered your own question. Schneider's page states the Flange Focal distance as 7.05 CM. Your going to have to get your lensboard closer than 8cm ie. leaning rear standard back, raising front, and leaning it into the rear as Louis suggested at the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrey_belo Posted December 5, 2001 Author Share Posted December 5, 2001 I have done as Louis and Jim suggest (moving the front standard closer through movements) and looked through the ground glass and lens wide open (independent of the camera) and seen the lens focus on the screen,so I know it WILL focus.But not as I would wish.I would like to be able to set up and shoot quickly without re-arranging the standards,and anyway this lens should focus without being so recessed on this camera.I suspect a mis-matched rear element,which is unfortunate as the lens is a beauty and was cheap.Does anyone know where I can get a recessed board for field (Linhoff,Wista) in the US quite quickly and cheaply?(Used would be good)Also it needs the unusual 00 cut.I just bought a board for this lens and don't want to fork out so much again and have to send it off to Steve Grimes who is far from me (I'm in CA).Thank you all for your ideas and research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrey_belo Posted December 5, 2001 Author Share Posted December 5, 2001 Jorge.Thanks for your time.....here is exactly what is happening... the lens is mounted normally;wide angle bellows fitted...I roll the front standard ALL THE WAY BACK to the rear standard as far as it will go....the lens does not touch the GG....the lensboard is about 8cm from the film plane.Now in my books I should be able to focus on something on a wide street scene.Even in my home I cannot get the thing to focus across the room (20 feet) or on anything between.I am using the maximum draw for this camera.As has been stated a recessed lensboard should not be needed for this focal length.It seems that it would solve the problem as a quarter turn of the focusing knob seems to be all that is needed....but I have just paid $50 for a new lensboard and had it drilled and am loath to search for a recessed one with a 00 cut.To me it seems that there is a problem with the rear element.....it was on sale at half price and I paid $325 for it,which raises my suspicians further.Anyone have any ideas?Most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpshiker Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 "the lens is mounted normally; wide angle bellows fitted...I roll the front standard ALL THE WAY BACK to the rear standard" <p> I believe you must first tip the front standard back, as mentioned above. This will place the lens a few centimeters back from it's normal position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_cole1 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I have this same lens, the price you paid is about right for a pretty nice used one (I think mine was about $350)(I'm assuming you have the chrome one). If I recall correctly, the rear cell of the lens is smaller and black and from profile looks like:________| | | | <p> instead of being conical like the front cell, but I could be mistaken. <p> When focused at infinity, the back element of mine is frighteningly close to the ground glass. On my Wisner Traditional, there is no way to focus this lens without base tilting the front standard back and bringing the lens board back into alignment with a front rise and axis tilt. My front standard almost sits inside the rear standard when focused at infinity (have to use a bag bellows). Don't know about your camera, but if it's a relatively normal field camera, I'd suspect you have the same requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neal_shields Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 The ebony web page says that your camera will take Linhof lensboards. If you have a good used camera shop near you they would probably let you try one. <p> However, it is my understanding that a Super Anglon is a Biogon design. I don't think those designs are like the old Protar plasmats, I.E. you can't just swap elements around. <p> If you do not have the correct rear element, I suspect getting the lens to "focus" will not accomplish much unless you are into abstract images. <p> My 90mm is an F8 also and I suspect that it was built about the same time. I would be very suspicious if the rear element of your lens doesn't have the last four digits of the serial number on the outside of the barrel. Mine are very small about a 1/16 of an inch so look closely, they would be very hard to see if the white paint has rubbed off. <p> My understanding of the ebony web page is that there are two models of the SV45 one definately would not need a resessed lens board to use your lens. I can't tell about the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_tolcher Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 I bought one of these lenses (65mm F8 SA) a couple of weeks ago and even with bag bellows found that actually what was needed to focus infinity was a recessed lens board. Like you, I bought bag bellows to use with a std lens board but found that the standards touched on the monorail before I could get focus on very much so the bag bellows didnt help and were sent back. A recessed board has been perfect although restricting the movements a bit (no bad thing with this lens). Focus from infinity to real close up is very short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_grandy1 Posted December 5, 2001 Share Posted December 5, 2001 Hi I have a 65 f8 SA and I use it on one of the older Toyo Field cameras. You say ".I roll the front standard ALL THE WAY BACK to the rear standard as far as it will go....the lens does not touch the GG.....I roll the front standard ALL THE WAY BACK to the rear standard as far as it will go....the lens does not touch the GG....the lensboard is about 8cm from the film plane." Well I'm not sure of where to measure from but you need to get the lens to 6.5 cm to focus at infinity. If you can see light through the groundglass and can bring the lens from say 6 through 8 cm of bellows extension then you should either be able to focus or the lens is broken somehow. <p> So are you seeing light through the lens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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