opinions on Hasselblad 200 series

[dan_n1]

hi all,

 

I am about to get another Hasselblad to replace the ones I lost (theft). I am thinking to get a 503 CW. (I had

500 CM and 500 CXi). While searching I came across a few of 200 series (201F, 202FA,203FE, 205FCC, and 205TCC).

 

What is your opinion on the 200 series? Do you have pro and con? Which one your favorite (or you like to have)

 

Thanks a lot in advance to help me to make my decision,

 

 

dan

[kelly_grider]

Hi Dan,

I highly recommend the sturdy and pratical 201F. I used a 503CW for a number of years for portraits and then found myself using it less

and less because it just wasn't as easy to work with as my Rolleiflex SL66. Then about 5 months ago I got a 201F and instantly fell in love

with it. It is compact, well made, and the instant mirror return allows me to shoot people much more fluidly than I ever thought possible with

a Hasselblad. The F lenses are simple, economical, fast and razor sharp. My vote is for the 201F. Good luck with your search.

 

Kelly

[graham_mitchell]

In case you don't already know, the 200 series bodies use a focal plane shutter so flash sync is slow and vibration should be more, but lenses are generaly faster. I also believe a 200 series body can still use a leaf shutter lens (kept open), but I'd check this out before relying on it.

[paul_gardener]

A 200 series camera gives you the best of both shutter systems provided you use CF/E/i lenses.

You have the option of a fast focal plane shutter or the leaf shutter that allows flash sync at all speeds.

When using F(E) lenses flash sync is limited at 1/90 second.

 

With F(E) lenses or wuth CF/E/i lenses in F mode you have instant view after each exposure.

 

Generally F(E) lenses are 1 stop faster.

The 110/2.0 was the fastest lens in MF untill CZ produced a similar lens for the now discontinued

Contax 645.

The 50 mm WA is the fastest lens ever produced for that focal length with MF cameras.

 

Unless these options are inportant to you the better choice is the 503 CW.

Make sure you get the latter version that allows 3200 setting for TTL flash.

[fotografz]

I'm using a 503CW and a 203FE.

 

The 503CW is a relatively inexpensive body compared to the 203FE (or the even more expensive 205s.) That is primarily because the

500 cameras are a mechanical box with the shutter located in each of the lenses.

 

The 203FE has a built in meter that's very accurate and it's in-camera electronic focal plane shutter allows use in aperture preferred

mode (you select the aperture the camera selects the shutter speed,) or you can

select Manual metering. Full metering ability is maintained even with the waist level finder ... there is no light meter in the 500 cameras,

so a metered prism finder must be used for TTL metering.

 

Top shutter speed of the 503CW is 1/500th and flash syncs @ all speeds ... on the 203FE it's 1/2000th top shutter speed, with sync @

1/90th or 1/500th using CF, CFi and CFE lenses.

 

The 203FE accepts all leaf shutter CF, CFi, and CFE lenses as well as the shutterless F and FE lenses. The 503CW doesn't work with

any of the F or FE lenses. The F/FE series lenses are primarily faster maximum

apertures ... which offer a brighter viewfinder, shallower DOF if you want it, lower light ability with use of faster shutter speeds.

50/2.8FE, 110/2FE, 150/2.8FE, 250/4FE and 350/4FE ... these lenses also tend to focus

closer than C type lenses.

 

F lenses have to be stopped down metered and shot. FE lenses have the "E" electronic data bus contacts to communicate with the

camera and do not have to be stopped down to meter or shoot.

 

500 series cameras can accept virtually every digital back ever made ... the 200 series cameras can only use the Hasselblad CFV

digital back and retain full working camera functions (except auto recognition of E film

backs, which is disabled when converted for CFV use.)

 

The 203FE is my personal favorite camera ever made.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Dan,<br><br>Previous posters said it all.<br>So just one additional note about the flash synchronization speed, to avoid misunderstandings: the 200 and 2000 series cameras' shutter synchs not just at 1/90, but at all slower speeds too.

[vick_ko]

I have a 501cm and 203FE. The 203FE is my favourite - for almost point and shoot photography. The meter is amazing. For slower work, I'll take out the 501cm and carefully meter.

 

And the 203FE is as quiet as the 500 series. I had a 201 with the metal shutter and didn't like it because the metal shutter is significantly louder.

 

....Vick

[diegobuono]

201F do not have TTL metering and "only" 1/1000 sec max shutter speed;

203FE has TTL metering (center weighted, 20% of the frame area) and 1/2000 sec.

205 FCC and TCC TTL metering (spot), 1/2000 sec plus an operating mode optimized for "zone system".

The cons of 203FE and 205 are:

The winder is not ergonomical and do not have the shutter release, you operate the camera as usual by its shutter release.

The light meter is sensitive to the light falling on the focussing screen so when you use it with the waist level finder you must meter with the magnifier popped up and you eye on it to avoid the light hit the focussing screen.

202FA is like the 203 FE but do not allow the use of the central shutter in the lens so you can use it only with F or FE lens and with CF/i/e in F mode.

My favourite is the 203 FE because i find the center weighted light meter more versatile that the "only spot" in the 205.

[fotografz]

Oh, one other thing ... the 503CW is still in production where the 200 series is discontinued ... (IMO, the stupidest thing Hasselblad ever did, but what do I

know?) Hasselblad service still supports some of the later 200 series cameras. On the other hand, the 500 series cameras are easy to get serviced, and there

are numerous excellent independant technicians that can keep them going for a couple of lifetimes.

 

If Hasselblad had continued development of the 200 series, installed a modern faster shutter in it, and made larger meg "black" CF backs that worked on it, it

would be the only MF camera I would ever want or need.

[stuart_richardson]

My 2 cents -- if you intend to shoot medium format film, there is hardly a better system than the 200 series from

Hasselblad. My choice is also the 203FE for the extraordinarily accurate center weighted meter. I find that the center

weighted tends to work better for AE than a spot meter which can get easily confused by very dark or light patches in an

otherwise neutral scene, particularly if you are working quickly. If you are working slowly, obviously the spot meter gives

you the most precision. <P>Another competitor if you are shooting film is the Rollei 6000 series -- it does certain things

better, and others worse. It is larger and heavier, but the viewfinder information display is much better, and there are

many more electronic options -- different metering patterns, better film loading, better ergonomics (for me anyway...the

grip is much better), and the ability to use Schneider lenses in addition to the Zeiss ones. Every lens has a leaf shutter,

with some going to 1/1000th. There is even the option to use AF on some lenses and bodies, and the system is still

alive as the Hy6 (which is an outstanding body) and supporting digital. The 200 series has some advantages though -- it

is smaller, lighter and more compact. It has the in camera shutter for up to 1/2000th with all lenses. The FE lenses are

generally lighter and smaller than the comparable equivalents in the 6000 series. The metering is better (at least it was

for me), and the 200 series will still work in C mode without a battery, where the 6000 series is dead in the water. The

system as a whole is cheaper than the 6000 series, and more rental options are available since it is basically just a

regular hasselblad with some more capabilities. <P>Basically, if you are only interested in shooting 6x6 film, the 200

series is pretty much cream of the crop. If you need digital compatibility with similar specifications, take a look at the

Hy6 (just hold your nose with respect to the pricing).

[Ed_Ingold]

In retrospect, a 503CW probably makes a better choice. It is still in production, and widely available in excellent (KEH) condition for under $1000. It has the GLS mirror and will accept a motor winder with remote operation. The latter is very useful for groups and portraits since you don't have to manually wind the camera, disrupting the session continuity. I don't find TTL flash metering to be a talking point. I have the necessary module for my Q-flash, but find that the AUTO flash mode works as well or better, including with my Nikon SB-800.

 

I have a 205TCC. The newer 205FCC has a useful feature to invert the shutter speed for long exposures. Thus 1/90 second becomes 90 seconds. The FCC continues to meter when the focal plane shutter is in "C" mode, whereas the meter is disabled in the TCC. There are other differences, but these seem significant.

 

If you don't have an "electronic" lens, you must meter in the stop-down mode which limits sensitivity. The instant-return mirror works in C or F mode, but the C shutter closes and stays closed. TTL flash metering works in C or F mode but, as stated above, I don't find it useful.

 

I made a lot of use of the TTL metering system at first, but have gradually shifted to using an hand-held meter (Sekonic L-508) for spot or incident readings. That way I don't have to move the camera around for readings once set on the tripod, and it doesn't matter if I forget to stop down (DOF preview) for metering. When shooting with the mirror-up, the lens shutter contributes much less vibration than the focal plane shutter. This seems to affect sharpness at shutter speeds up to 1/60 second.

[derek_stanton2]

203FE, if you can find one at a 'reasonable' price.

 

My first Hasselblad was a 203FE. Like an idiot, i sold it to buy a different MF camera. Later, when i decided to come back to

Hassy, i bought a 503CW, but since i intended to use it primarily for travel / travel portraiture, i found it was cumbersome to

have to meter separately when i was standing in front of a stranger, speaking a second/third language, trying to get the

subject to understand how many exposures it takes to get one keeper.... So, i sold the 503 and eventually found another

203FE.

 

As pointed out above, you can use leaf or focal plane shutters. You have access to all of the various Hassy lenses,

including the faster F and FE models. Instant return mirror, with no vignetting. Aside from the price, it's a no-brainer.

[rafael_hernandez1]

I can't add much to what others have posted already but here's another vote, actually two, for the 203FE. Best camera ever. The meter is scary accurate. They are still going for a bundle in the auction site. I don't have experience with the 201F or the 205FCC though.And you'd love the extra f-stop the FE lenses provide, if you don't mind the slow flash sync with them, if you do mind, that's what the CF lenses are for.

[paul_gardener]

Edward,

 

I find the TTL or OTF system as Hasselblad calls it quite usefull and acurate.

 

As long as you have set the right film speed on the camera you can just shoot.

The camera reports under exposed frames and also indicates the torch is ready to fire again.

 

One of the not yet mentioned diffrences between the 205 TCC and the later 205 FCC is the possibility to set a fixed

amount of under or overexposure for the flash unit.

This stays in effect no matter what other settings are changed.

 

The 203FE has the same flash options.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Just a note: OTF is not an alternative name, chosen by Hasselblad, for TTL.<br>TTL is the already very old short for 'through the lens', indicating the then new way of measuring light.<br>OTF also is very old, yet not quite as old, and was introduced by Olympus, and simply stands for 'off the film': the way some of their OM-series cameras measured both ambient light and flash.<br>Though the TTL bit is redundant, the TTL/OTF designation is a generic thing, used industry wide.

[paul_gardener]

@ Diego Buono,

 

I think you made a mistake:

The 201F does have TTL flash metering or OTF as Hasselblad calls it more correctly.

[q.g._de_bakker]

Nope. Diego was right.<br>The 201 F does not have TTL metering. It has TTL/OTF flash metering only, no TTL metering. ;-)<br><br>OTF is only more correct if it indeed is OTF, for there are many TTL metering systems that are not OTF. The metering system of both the 203 and 205, for instance.

[q.g._de_bakker]

A p.s. for clarity's sake:<br>the metering system involved in TTL/OTF flash metering is not in the 201 (or 202, 203 or 205), but in the flash unit.<br>All the 201 F has is a sensor, an ISO dial and a socket to connect it to the flash unit.

[claudia franco]

I use both a second-hand 205FCC and 503CW. The 205 has more sensitive and faster operation--I use it for situations and weather where a light meter could seriously slow things up. At other times, when speed is not essential, I use the 503CW.

 

One factor to be aware of: the electronics of the 200 series may be prone to trouble as the cameras age. I acquired mine from KEH about six years ago. It performed flawlessly with over 300 rolls of film until suddenly jamming last year. My local repair shop couldn't handle it, and sent it to Hasselblad USA for repair. Five weeks and $1500 later the camera was fixed--three problems had been identified--it seems to work okay but now for some reason it goes through batteries like crazy. Not that this will necessarily happen to you, but these electronic cameras are getting on in years. . .

[jason_stoller]

I recently bought the 201F. I also bought a 500C/M just prior to finding the 201F and I will be selling the 500.

 

I am new to Hasselblad but not completely new to Medium Format.

 

I was aware of the 203FE and 205FCC and the metering they offered. Of course the 203FE and 205FCC were much more expensive so I had to take into consideration both the price and value that each different body offered to me.

 

What I liked about the 201F is that I could choose to add a metered prism to it if I wished. I do know how the add on meters compare to the built in ones of the 203 and 205. I already owned a Sekonic 758DR which is probably more meter than most people need. I find the spot meter in it outstanding and its very easy to use. A hand held meter also gives you the ability to use it with other camera bodies. So I thought using a hand held meter was more of an advantage for me.

 

From my reading I understood that I could use any viewfinder or accessory that fit the 500 series cameras. This is not true of the 203 or 205 because they need a cut out on the bottom plate of the viewfinder for the raised lip of the lcd at the front of the ground glass. The 201F does not have the data contacts of the 203 or 205 for the newer lenses. Although a digital back can be used with the 201F, the camera body cannot be modified for digital like the 203F can. I have no idea about the 205 but I will assume its either already set up or can be modified as well. I can also use any of the focusing screens offered for the 500 series with the 201F but I do not know if this is true of the other models because of the metering systems. By the way I use the NC-2 Viewfinder that I got for $30 on ebay. As I mentioned, I could buy metered prisms that will work on the 201F but they are $200 and up.

 

One of my major concerns about the 203 and 205 was already mentioned above. That concern has to do with the failure of the circuit boards or components on them when compared to the 201F. In my opinion less components mean less than can fail. I do know that built in meters can fail just like hand held meters. I would think that the internal meters in the 203 and 205 might be more expensive to repair. Of course if the meter fails and the camera still operates correctly you can always use a hand held meter.

 

So my decision to purchase the 201F was based on initial cost. How complex the internal parts of the camera was compared to the other models. The compatibility and cost of the accessories. The ease of finding the accessories I wanted and their availablity, and the availability of parts and possible repair costs.

 

The last 201F that I saw sell on Ebay was around $768 dollars. I think the last 203FE I saw on ebay went for around $2700. You can be sure a 205FCC will sell for more. I think I also saw a 205TCC listed recently and it was more than the 203FE price.

 

One advantage to the 203 and 205 is the faster shutter speed on 1/2000. The 201F only offers 1/1000 as its top shutter speed so you will have to decide how important that is for you.

 

The 200 series bodies also offer a longer mirror to address the issue vignetting, and the feature of instant return on the mirror as well. This mirror will function this way except with the use of the older C lenses where the camera has to be set in B or bulb mode in order to use the lens.

 

I really do not think you will go wrong with any Hasselblad body that has been mentioned in this thread. I agree with the poster or posters up above that have said the 200 series cameras are probably the best Hasselblads that ever have been built. They are also not prone to jamming like some of the 500 series bodies. It all depends on what your needs are and how much you want to spend.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jason

[dan_n1]

I do not expect such a quality of posts. You posts are great for someone who think the 200 series are better than 500 (and dream about it).

 

Jason, it's a very good write up that deserves to be put in Stickies or FAQ.

 

All your posts help me a lot to to rebuild my MF gear from scratch... I still have the noisy Pentax 645 (which I rarely use). I wish the theft took it instead of the 'Blad...

 

thanks again...

[mark_tucker2]

First, before I highjack your thread, let me vote that I've owned several of these 200 series cameras, and they're my favorites ever, and I've been shooting for 27 years. They are amazing. The meter is so good that I just put it on "A" and set the lens to wide open, and i use it like a point and shoot camera. I shoot color neg, and damn near every frame is perfectly exposed. So I vote for this series by far, over the 500 series. Who wants to drag around a hand held meter? Plus, you get the 110F2 with the 200s.

 

Now, the bad news: I was shooting yesterday with the 203FE and it locked up on me. I'm looking for any thoughts from experienced people here.

 

Was shooting with the motor drive, and I'd shot about twenty frames and it locked up. I took the back off, and the shutter release seems to travel on half way now; you press the release and it comes in about half way and the resistance pushes it back out. With the back off, I can see that "pin" that trips the film back, and while that pin normally travels about 1/4 inch, it now only travels 1/8 of an inch.

 

I changed batteries, thinking it was the body battery. Kodak PX28L lithium. No luck. The electronics seem fine -- everything works, but the shutter seems slightly jammed.

 

Even weirder, I came home to get the 202FA, and I shot one frame with it, to test the internal battery, and then it locked up too. It locked up with the rear shutter open, and the mirror raised. It's still in that condition now. I changed batteries and no luck.

 

On both bodies, too, I removed the motor drive, thinking the batteries might be dead in the motor, and installed the manual advance.

 

Any thoughts? I'd love to get a quick answer so I can keep shooting today. How weird that both bodies go down? One body is '96 and the other body is '98, but both very clean. I bought them both used, this year, to get back into film after frustration with digital.

 

Mark Tucker, http://www.marktucker.com

[stuart_richardson]

Mark -- I am not sure about the 203 issue, but it sounds like your 202FA was out of batteries. When this happens (in the

203FE anyway), the mirror does not return instantly. Take the manual winder and press the center button down and rotate

as if you were going to do a multiple exposure. This should put the mirror back down and set it back to normal. That may

work...if it doesn't, I am sorry but I cannot help. I do not have mine in front of me to experiment. Perhaps QG will have a

more thorough answer.

[q.g._de_bakker]

I'm sorry, but no. That already is the full answer.<br>The 'reset' of a 200-series camera is the double-exposure wind, with a battery that still has some live in it in place.<br><br>If it is not the battery (and you might want to test a couple, since 'fresh' ones may be passed their best too), it is most probably an electrical fault that needs a fully equiped and qualified repair shop to diagnose and fix.

[paul_gardener]

These cameras are best serviced by official Hasselblad service centers.

As far as I know none of the "independants" are keen on these complicated cameras.

 

Hasselblad service does not come cheap but it is still the best choice for 200 series bodies.

The problem may be caused by poor batteries.

That also explains why two bodies are failing at the same time.