to all the India photographers/travelers (no weblink in the signature)

[matroskin]

hello.

i was reading this forum and thought that my experience in India might be helpful to a lot of people who are planning

to go there. i spent 4 months (mostly in Rajastan - Jaipur and Jodhpur) on a study abroad program, living with two

families 6 weeks each. you can see some photos from the trip here http://kostyanakazny.com/India.htm .

India and her people are one of the most photogenic beings in the world. most of them love to be photographed (the

kids will bug you to death to take their photo). be nice and if you sense some hostility just walk away. be sensitive to

adult women (particularly if you're a male photographer) as women have different social standing in India then in the

west. besides the monsters of urbanism like Delhi, Bombay, and other any city has a center. a very small part of that

center is touristy the rest is pure insanity that is India. get outside the tourists hot spots and explore. during the day

its safe, not counting the usual hustle that comes with being the hottest museum attraction - a white person with big

camera in the middle of a barrio.

 

get a Lonely Planet and learn as much Hindi as possible.

don't feel like a noblewo/man. if you see an amazing shop keeper you must have a photo of - make a conversation,

get something and he'll stand on his ears when you ask to take his photo. you'll get a pretty bangle (or whatever he

sells) a photo to brag about and he'll get a little business - everyone's happy. the little, cute, begging kinds are not

just pretending - them and their entire extended families live in rooms smaller then a bathroom in an average house in

the States. it's good to buy some chocolate and just give it to them. Break the rule and don’t take their photos from

time to time

 

get into weddings. especially the street processions and if you can the 2 to 5 days of pre-wedding preparations (bridal

preparations and reading of the stars are intimate and very interesting events that I’d highly recommend. It is

absolutely polite to ask people who know you just a couple of days, if they know if anybody’s getting married. Ask if

you

can go.) take photos but make it clear that you're not there just for the pictures, you enjoy being there. make the

Namaste hand gesture. in four months, i was in one invited wedding (it was not arranged and the girl was from a

higher cast then the guy) and who knows how many uninvited.

 

as far as hotels and traveling. if it's your first time in India and you're flying into Delhi i'd recommend Ymca or wmca in

the Connaught Place. don't pay more then $60 a night. if you want a preview of the craziness to come go to Major's

Den in Paharganj area, Delhi. rooms are no more then $15 a night for 2-3 people.

 

For the photo gear – if Indians are of interest to you, make sure you have as fast lens as possible because the

streets are so busy you’re going to need lots of blurry backgrounds (all but two photos on my website, excluding

Sikkim, were taken with 50mm f/1.4 on xti body – there is no need to sneak up on people there unless you’re into it).

Also, bring a wide angle for all the forts, temples, etc.

 

Eat lots of sweets and if you smoke try the beedees (the lighter the bundle/package the lighter the cigarettes. It takes

about three packs to get used to them. Try to drink botteled water (check the cap) but if you’re in the middle of the

Thar Desert and have no alternative then Indira Gandhi canal drink from there. It’s been tried and aside from minor

diarrhea nothing happened (6 people did it, including me. 3 for 6 weeks!!!)

 

Hope this helps and if anybody needs any info feel free to email me.

 

KN

[zan]

Hi,

Traveling soon to India I find this post informative and helpful.

 

Thank you.

[aliaks]

Thanks. Very informative post!

[tholte]

I like your people shots from India, good work!

[vandit]

Well, I have a problem with:

"the little, cute, begging kinds are not just pretending - them and their entire extended families live in rooms smaller then

a bathroom in an average house in the States. it's good to buy some chocolate and just give it to them."

 

No. It is definitely NOT ok to buy some chocolate and give it to them. It may assuage a visitor's conscience that s/he

is doing something useful for the children, but:

(a) you really are not doing anything useful and worse,

(b) you are teaching the children that foreign tourists are a good source of freebies. This is bad for the next tourist who

comes along and who gets harassed, and it is further propagates a culture of dependency.

 

I run trips to various parts of India and I have seen the harmful effects that well-meaning tourists have when they start

giving out pens, money, sweets, etc. Dont get me started on this. There is a reason that EVERY source of

responsible travel urges you to avoid practices such as these.

 

If you want to contribute, there are plenty of social welfare agencies who will can use your money and put it to better use

(such as medicine and essential supplies).

 

I dont meant to come across as overly harsh. I am glad you enjoyed 4 months in India - by the sound of it, you made an

effort to connect with the country, which a lot of people forget to do in their hurry to see the sights and check off the

lists. But please be a little more aware of the social consequences of some of your actions.

 

Vandit

[matroskin]

Vandit,

as i understand you either live in India or spend a substantial time there. so you know very well where the majority of

the money donated to social welfare agencies go. 20 people from the group i was a part of were placed in different

NGOs and 70% reported miss management. the money went to support a fleet of servants, building of new useless

(or at least useless to the community) buildings and so on. don{t ask me for any details because i still have contacts

there but you know it{s true. the begging people will be begging whether tourists give them anything or not - i saw

many Indian people giving them change and food. if you give them change their parents will take it (most likely father,

who will buy booze with it), if you give them chocolate or any other treat or food they will eat it on the spot.

at least that was my experience there.

<br>KN

[vandit]

Look, you can argue about the efficiency of social spending all you want, but that doesnt make it correct to start giving

kids freebies. There are plenty of agencies which do stellar work - next time you are in India, drop me an email and I'll

put you in touch with them. And you are aware that begging is actually a very big organized industry, right?

 

Yes, beggars will be begging, but you ever wonder why they throng onto foreigners so much more? Ever see them act

like that with Indians? I remember hikes in remote parts of the Himalayas where, 10 years ago, kids were happy to see

you and wanted to chat. Now, after less than a decade of those routes opening up to tourists, they come with their

hands sticking out, the first things out of their mouth being "money/sweets". Why do you think that is?

 

And then people wonder about coming to India and being mobbed.... just last week, I was in Delhi and noticed a few

street kids *mobbing* these 2 hapless tourists who had absolutely no idea what to do, but who were very uncomfortable

with the pushing, pawing and demands for money. How do you suppose these street kids learned to associate tourists

with freebies?

 

And this is not just an India thing. There have been numerous studies documenting the ill-effects of tourism, and giving

freebies is on top of most lists of irresponsible behavior. Don't take my word for it - hit Google and do your research.

Here's a few to get you started:

http://news.mongabay.com/2006/1127-interview_greenwald.html

http://www.responsibletourism.org.nz/travellers/index.html

http://www.selectiveasia.com/responsible-tourism.aspx

 

Just because you think it is ok to do so doesnt make it so. Like I said, it may make you feel better and certainly, if 1

person is to give a gift to a few kids, it isnt the end of the world. But the problem is, it isnt 1 person. A lot of tourists do,

and generally with the best of intentions. And the result is not good.

 

Quite frankly, there really is very little to debate here. You are simply wrong in your assertion that this is acceptable.

 

I realize that my posts may come across as being overly aggressive to you. Be assured that I really dont mean it as a

personal attack.

 

It was nice to hear about someone taking a trip to India where they tried to be a participant, rather than a voyeur. But

this is one of my hot buttons - I have seen far too many previously-untouched places deteriorating because of well-

meaning actions such as this. And some of it is guilt, because when I too was one of the people who shared my hiking

rations with the kids in the Himalayas.

 

Vandit

[matroskin]

i don't feel, you're posts are overly aggressive - you obviously have strong feelings about this topic. if

there was an "edit" option on this forum i'd modify my post to say "the best practice is not to give

anything to street beggars but if you absolutely must don't give them money because it will be taken

away. buy some local food from the street vendor. not, cheeps." <br> my experience with remote

communities was different from what you (and the articles you suggested) describe. in one village

(Bishu, somewhere by Pakistani border) the arrangement was to pay to the elders and there was no

begging at all, except to take pictures by children. at another (Gagari outside Jodhpur) we got stones

thrown at us. no begging just intense staring and nobody care about that by that time. <br> can you

post or send me directly some references to studies or articles about begging as organized industry? i

understand there are people behind the beggars but i want to know what's going on. <br> KN

[k_cooper]

I second Vandit's opinion. I work for the Indian office of a multi-national software company and it is very

frequently that we have visitors from out of India.

 

The common trend observed is that they feel for the kids' plight and often resort to giving money and/or

small candy items. The grim reality is rather different. Begging has become a very organized "sector",

often preying on the sentiments of the tourist coming from countries where such situations are virtually

absent.

 

Often there are articles in the local newspapers quoting the estimated amount of funds the "begging

industry" collects on an annual basis. Will try to search for online findings where such reports are

published.

[matroskin]

K Cooper

i´d appreciate a link or pdf of a credible study. like i said, i was there as a student (globalization,

international development) and i learned a great deal about the country, but our professors never went beyond

¨giving money to beggars reinforces the practice¨. besides being a curious person i spend a lot of time who knows

where and would like to learn how organized begging works and who’s behind...

[k_cooper]

Not sure about the "credible study", but since its daily life here, these become synonymous

with facts. Its like asking someone from Somalia for a credible study on the negative effects

of war. :)

 

But an initial search revealed the following links:

http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/bhiksha/begging.htm

http://digg.com/world_news/Beggars_in_India_Being_Are_Being_Amputated_By_Gangs_T

o_Make_Money

http://worldofindia.blogspot.com/2007/02/how-much-do-beggars-earn-in-india.html

 

This is just from a very basic Google search. This is a very deep and often overlooked

subject, but the common consensus is that organized begging thrives because there is

"potential". When the potential disappears, organized begging will. Maybe it transforms itself

into a new phenomenon, who knows. One way to kill a beast is to stop feeding it.

[matroskin]

K Cooper and Vandit Kalia<br>

i'm lingering in Lima until Friday and had some time to go through the links K Cooper posted. so, how's a beggar

who has no limb (lost in an accident or amputated for begging purposes) is a justification for not giving

something to him/her? even if it was done on purpose, the dude has no limb and if s/he doesn’t bring any money

they’ll throw him/her away with no access to begging space at all! I know giving money stimulates cutting more

limbs. It’s a messed up situation from any point. <br><br>

the link where the lady "estimates" the earnings is off completely. the statement "and at least 1 in 5, give the

beggars some money" is indicative of the writer's NOT observing the traffic lights. it's best if 1 in 50 will

give anything. most of the time it's change and not even 1 rupee and Rs 100 is a once in a life time occurrence

per 10000 beggars. If we continue her “fuzzy math” the beggars of Bangalore will be pulling India’s GDP numbers

in a month. <br><br>

maybe chocolate is not a good idea because of health reasons but i still fail to see why it's bad to buy some

local food/snack for a begging stick thin child? and when i lived in Jodhpur i met with an amateur film maker who

did videos on street begging. just because it's mafia controlled in Bangalore and Delhi doesn't mean it's

organized everywhere. only where it'll make a profit.<br><br>

i've been going up and down the Andes in Peru and Ecuador in the past 4 months without tourist agencies and it's

a custom to bring coca leafs and bread for the families when you're coming from where it's available to where

it's not. like when i went to the <A

href="http://kostyanakazny.com/India_Thar_musicians/Thar_musicians.htm">Bishu village in Rajasthan </A>

the husband, who worked in Jodhpur, brought sweets from the city and his children and nephews were mobbing him

for some. <br><br>

i am by no means advocating an active bagging and giving all the beggars money, but beggars and people who

support them (tourists and locals) are a fact of life almost anywhere in the world and as your first link

indicates goes back in time way before world "tourist" existed. taking "don't give them anything" approach is not

going to accomplish anything. once a tourist sees them kids or crippled people on the streets of Delhi or

Bangalore or where ever, s/he's going to give something. it's better s/he gives something that a person can use

for her/him self right there and then.<br><br>

before the end of the year i'm going to write a couple of articles and one of them will be on this issue. i'm

planning to do more research and contact some organizations on this topic (i'm doing AmeriCorps program with poor

and at risk youth for a year and should have good resources available), but i think advocating "avoid giving

anything to anybody on the streets" is simply useless. it's like outlawing drugs or prostitution - no point

whatsoever. <br><br>

i can tell you that my personal approach when children run to me in remote communities is to grab the little

bugger and start throwing him/her in the air and spin like windmill. and (surprise, surprise) every kid around

starts "mobbing" me to do the same to them. aside from the huge metropolitan cities with mafia and whatnot, i

think that often kids mob tourists for the same reason that they through stones at dogs and cats - it amuses them.