What would you do in this situation?

[mbyrne]

Last night I received a call from a bride that I shot well over two years ago. She got a budget package for $999 that included 200 proofs as

well as my time. After the wedding, I only heard back from her after I posted the web gallery, the loved the pics, after that there was

nothing, she never ordered her proofs. Last night she says that she and her husband have divorced and asked for a partial refund of my fee

because they never ordered their prints. She wanted $500 back. I politely explained to her that the prints included in the package cant be

cashed in so to so and that my fee covers much more than just the prints, including my time at the wedding, my time after the wedding

while working on the edits, travel, wear and tear on equipment, ect.

Has anyone ever had to deal with something like this? What did you do?

[shambrick007]

Dang, she must be hard up!

[annealmasy]

A few questions...

 

1.) What do you mean, "she never ordered her proofs"? Were they supposed to select a specific number of images for

you to print for them? Was she supposed to pay extra to receive the prints? Had the "proofs" you mentioned been paid

for in full?

 

2.) Did your contract list the prints as an itemized product, separate from your coverage, with a listed value of $500? Or

is the contract for a one-price wedding package that included your coverage and the prints with no breakdown in price?

 

3.) Did your contract clarify what would happen if the client didn't "order" her proofs by a certain date? Or has this

remained an open order, where you were still waiting for her decision?

 

4.) Did your contract have a cancellation policy regarding the termination of any portion of the contract? (This would

cover not only cancellation of your coverage at the wedding, but cancellation of any products or services after the fact.)

 

Assuming you are covered contractually, and that YOU did YOUR part, then no, you do not owe her a refund. That

doesn't mean you may not decide to give her one; just that I don't believe you're under any obligation to refund any of her

money.

 

After all, had she called to say that she was finally ready to order her prints, you would have fulfilled that order, correct?

 

I do think that it is absurd to request a refund more than 2 years after the original contract was put in place. There is not

a company in the world who will accept returns after 2 years. It is VERY sad that they are getting divorced, but you are

in no way responsible for the staying power of their marriage.

 

Whatever you decide, keep your reply to her simple, to-the-point, and in writing. You do not need to explain the inner-

workings of your business in order to tell her "no." Just succinctly explain your policy and stick with it.

 

I would send something like this: "Dear Bride: I'm so sorry to hear that you and Groom have decided to separate. I'm

sure this is a very difficult time for both of you. I have considered your request for a refund of $500 for the prints that

were included in your wedding photography package. As per our contract, you were to select XX images for printing, but

you never made those selections. As you know, our contract states XYZ. Therefore, I am unable to offer you a refund.

I would, of course, be more than happy to complete your original order, but I understand if you are not interested in that

offer. I wish you all the best. -Photographer"

 

Obviously, without knowing the answers to the questions above, it's hard to say how much of this is really applicable to

your situation.

 

Those are just my initial thoughts... :)

 

Good luck!

[rosina_dibello]

Ignore her... she is desperate for money and will try to peck you to death until you give in to her.

Do not give her anything other than what she ordered in her package.

 

There is no negotiating on this.

 

also, have all contact with her via EMAIL so that every thing can be recorded - in case she decides to take you to small claims court.

[rosina_dibello]

Ignore her... she is desperate for money and will try to peck you to death until you give in to her.

Do not give her anything other than what she ordered in her package.

 

There is no negotiating on this.

 

also, have all contact with her via EMAIL so that every thing can be recorded - in case she decides to take you to small claims court.

[steve_c.5]

Good advice, Anne. I would offer to either complete her original order of prints, or give her the cash equivalent of your costs to provide those prints (easier for you and cheap if you price them online thru Meridian Pro, Adorama, etc.). If you give her the money it would cost for the prints, then you won't even have to expend much of your time on this. That way, you will come out even better than if she takes the prints, because you don't have to do the legwork of actually providing them. She'll take the money and run. She's not going to sue you in small claims court over this, because she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[annealmasy]

I like Steve C's idea, but in thinking more about it, I would avoid giving her a refund of your "cost" amount. That's sure

to only raise more questions. Why did you charge her $$$ if they only cost you $? If you're willing to give a refund, why

not a full refund? Why are you keeping a portion of her money when she's not getting the product? It would be like

trying to return a shirt to Target and being told that they'd give you 30 cents back. (Ha.) You don't WANT to know the

cost. It just makes the offense worse.

 

When your clients see your hard cost, that's ALL they see. Of course, you, as a business owner, know that a $20 8x10

might only "cost" you $2 at the lab, but it costs at additional $4 in editing time, and $7 in shipping, not to mention the

intrinsic value of the image itself, AND the every day costs of keeping your business afloat. (What about that phone line

that she CALLED you on? Or the e-mail address at which she wrote you?)

 

Don't waste time going into the details of "why" and "how" and "how much".

 

Just decide: full refund, or none at all.

 

That's my take. :)

[jo_dinning]

Anne's suggestions seem sound to me. As well as the excessive amount of time that has passed, she was not

unhappy with your work, and so a refund seems inappropriate unless this is in your contract. I would offer her the

option of still getting her prints if that was part of her deal at the time, and let her know what a good deal she's

getting given the raise in costs for prints given inflation over this time period that has elapsed.

 

Even if a refund were allowed for as part of your contract, there may be legal issues since any refund may not just be

her entitlement, most likely, unless this has been allowed for in the divorce settlement.

 

But certainly offer her the prints that she was supposed to get (if that's the case), and put everything in writing. This

case probably emphasises the importance of putting time limits into your contract and chasing clients up so that

each contract can be fulfilled before things like this flare up. My guess is that she is feeling a bit nippy after the

divorce and wants to tie up loose ends but is loathed to end up with smiling wedding pics, especially now that the

cash would come in handier. But that wasn't part of the original deal, and therefore her hard luck. Hope it works out.

[mbyrne]

I did offer her the prints. She just wanted money.

[rayt]

Tell her you do not give refunds. Then ignore any future requests for money,

[alec_myers]

I wonder what sort of answer she'd get if she asked for a refund from the wedding caterers or the officiant!

 

Why do photographers feel they have to entertain even the slightest thought of putting up with this kind of nonsense?

[jo_dinning]

I think if you've offered her the prints Mike, that's all you can do (and probably have to). Really, I think the issue comes down to the reason for her requests: if it were that she were unhappy with your work, or she had cancelled your services before the wedding and within your cancellation period, or you hadn't provided goods or services that you had promised but which she had specifically requested, or the photos hadn't come out - then fine, all reasonable issues within which to negotiate a refund of some kind.

 

And after all, you've offered her the prints - you're not holding back on a part of the deal that she has requested and paid for.

 

The problem is that she is wanting a refund because she got divorced - something we don't legislate for as photographers! If she were still married it is unlikely she would be looking for a refund.

 

So to summarise - tell her that you are more than happy to provide the prints that were a part of the original deal; but beyond that you have no obligation to her, financially or photographically. She is of course welcome to seek the judgement of the small claims court if she doesn't like the answer, but I think she has no chance and would be better keeping her money. Put this in a short and sweet letter. If you hear from her again with more of the same, ignore it - she has your answer and nothing has changed.

 

Don't budge on this one - she's a chancer.

[Jerry_]

Offer her the choice of prints that include her family, but on the refund...decline the idea.

 

 

 

If a dentist pulls a tooth, you cannot go back in three weeks and ask for a better price. You attended the wedding and provided your photographic skills. Nothing in the area of 1/2 to be refunded in the future was on the table for discussion prior to the wedding, right?

[manuel_arzate]

I can see why there was a divorce.....Business is business, photographers are so taken for granted! BUT that's the nature of the beast....

[marc_kruter]

Anne said: "There is not a company in the world who will accept returns after 2 years."

 

COSTCO!!!

http://www.costco.com/Service/FeaturePageLeftNav.aspx?ProductNo=11204333

[john_h.1]

I agree with Anne on all points except considering a refund. I doubt that was a real suggestion, however, as the point seemed that it is unwise to let the client think they have some hope of extracting concessions and/or that there is some basis to do so. As long as the contract does not bind you to the demands (which would be astonishing if it did), just follow the contract terms and don't get wound up over this. Sometimes you are going to encounter troublemakers who have ridiculous notions about things. Now is one of those times. Its not worth fretting about.

[art_tatum]

Marry her!

[robbie_caswell]

Give her credit towards a family portrait session. Maybe gain a couple of clients, positive WOM, and sell above the credit.