EOS 20D color problem (flat colors)

[free_punch]

Hi,

I have an EOS 20D with a 28-80 f2.8 lens. It seems the color recorded by camera is usually somewhat flat. That

means I have to increase saturation on Photoshop most of the time to achieve real colors.These are day light

photos, and not in hazy conditions. I use two monitors both calibrated,hence not monitor problem. I have

increased the saturation on the camera menu by one degree and still not much improvement.Any ideas? Ta.

[dave_holland]

One issue you may not have considered is your color space. It's OK to shoot in Adobe RGB 1998 if you want. But

when you upload or when you view on web based moniters, those moniters may be assuming the sRGB color space.

If they do, you will find that reds will be flat, and colors not so vibrant. You see, many web based viewers assume

sRGB and don't bother to read embedded tags. Try shooting a combination of RAW and a small jpg file. Is the color

better with the small file? If so, it's likely a color space issue. <br><br>

 

If this is the problem, there are two possible solutions. You could shoot in sRGB, (Ken Rockwell's solution). No

conversions to confuse, fewer problems. But then you miss out on the wider gamut offered by Adobe RGB. The other

option is to shoot in Adobe RGB, but <u>convert to</u> sRGB before you upload. This is what I do. <br><br>

 

Most of us boost saturation in camera. I liked what Velvia 50 did to colors, which was to boost saturation by about

15%. So, if it isn't a color space problem you may just have to boost saturation routinely, to achieve what you are

looking for. It's not necessarily realistic, but it does offer a certain effect. I do wonder if that effect will appear dated in

years to come.<br><br>

 

Dave

[pjmeade]

Another approach is a push to the contrast in editing, this generally makes the colours pop a little more.

 

Hope this helps.

 

P

[bluphoto]

Wow, I have this same problem, but I thought I just had to live with it - never really saw it as a problem. JPGs colour

is more saturated than the RAW's. Anyone know how to shoot RAW in sRGB on the 5D?

[ken schwarz]

Are you shooting RAW and then converting on your computer? This gives you the best results and the most flexibility. RAW is neither sRGB nor Adobe RGB. It's just RAW. When you convert it to another format, then you have to pick your color space. In genreal, it's best to leave the camera on sRGB so that your jpeg output is universally readable. If you shoot jpeg only (no RAW conversion on your computer), then you may want to bump up your saturation settings in your camera a bit, but it shouldn't take much.

[andre_mcnichols]

I rarely need to boost saturation to get good colors as long as the shot is well exposed. Shoot raw, set your white balance, adjust contrast and exposure, maybe a little curves adjustment in ps. If it looks good on screen but prints flat, it could be that your printer is expecting srgb.

[free_punch]

Me again. I usually shoot Large jpg in sRGB space. Based on suggestions I ran some tests.

When I shot RAW+smallJPG I got a difference between the two.

It seems the easiest way is adding contrast and saturation 2 steps in the user sets on the

camera and it now does a little better.

 

Shooting in raw and then adjusting parameters especially WhiteBalance in Photoshop also

improves, however it is better to set camera parameters on neutral during the shoot.

And taking photos in AdobeRGB and then saving in sRGB usually increases saturation/contrast

but not always.

Thank you all.

[alan_myers]

Hi,

 

If you are shooting JPEGs, on your 20D you can go into the menu and change the "Processing Parameters" to give a more saturated look to the files. (Note: on 5D, 30D and later, this was changed to "Picture Styles", which is a little more extensive.)

 

If you are instead shooting RAW, setting "Processing Parameters" differently won't actually change the image file, but will "tag" it with your choices. This means that the changes will be reflected in your image review on the camera's LCD screen *and* on your computer if you are viewing the RAW files with Canon's softwares. (Note: This doesn't work with third party softwares - including Photoshop - simply because they don't recognize and use Canon's "tags". They merely show the file in it's original state.)

 

The nice thing with RAW, the parameters you choose aren't set in stone. They are only used initially and you always have the option of changing them before you make the JPEG or TIFF conversion. With JPEGs generated in camera, once the conversion is done, the data is thrown away and there's no way to retrieve it.

 

RAW vs sRGB is another consideration, certainly.

 

However, if you print your images or anticipate any other uses for them, you might be better to stick with teh Adobe RGB color space. This is because it's the wider gamut, compared to sRGB. You can always convert an Adobe RGB file to the smaller gamut sRGB (and often should for images to display on the web, etc.). However, you can never go the other direction and convert sRGB to Adobe RGB. Once again, after the conversion to sRGB the "extra" data is thrown away and cannot be retrieved.

 

This is really only a concern if shooting JPEGs. Shooting RAW it isn't a concern because you can choose to generate either RGB or sRGB, and so long as you keep the original RAW file, you can always go back if you change your mind later.

 

You can see it yourself. Often when I am preparing a file for web use, I'll change it from RGB to sRGB. Almost always I find I need to increase saturation of the sRGB file to match the original appearance of the RGB.

 

Now, another important consideration is whether or not you are using a calibrated computer monitor and/or calibrated printing process with your images. If not, all the above may be completely moot, since the display you are seeing may not be very accurate representation of the actual image file. If your prints look a lot different than your computer screen, you really need to consider calibration, and that might mean buying some calibration hardware and software (Eye One/Gretag, Colorvision, etc.).

 

Some softwares (like Photoshop) have a crude form of calibration capability built in. Some monitors have means of calibration do, too, and some graphics cards have some options in their driver software. The Mac operating systems do, as well. But, in general, these aren't as accurate as many of the after market calibration devices and softwares. The reason is that the softwares rely on you to view choices, while the color calibrating devices use a colorimeter to evaluate more accurate than we can by eye. (Note: both our eyes and colorimeters are influenced by ambient light in the room with the monitor, so that's something else to consider.)

 

If just comparing images on your computer monitor, be ware that they vary a lot, too. Some less expensive ones can't even be calibrated and may not render a very accurate image. LCD screens differ from CRTs, too.

 

One final note, also check out what "preview" you are using, if any, in Photoshop. This is a form of "soft proofing" that you can use to get a pretty good idea how an image will output to various printers and in various ways. This generally needs various ICC profiles loaded for specific printer/ink/paper combinations, but there are some preloaded into Photoshop anyway. For example, you don't want to be set to CMYK for printing on an inkjet, which uses RGB.

 

Hope this helps.

[chrisjb]

`(Note: This doesn't work with third party softwares - including Photoshop - simply because they don't recognize and use Canon's "tags". They merely show the file in it's original state.)

 

Alan: Are you saying all or most s/w ? I used Breeze systems with 20d`s for Raw files which take into account the as shot parameters, well appears to. I did not upgrade it for 40d`s as just another expense now DPP has improved :)

`

[dave_holland]

Alan, you describe having to boost saturation when you switch RGB to sRBG. That's not been my experience. Are you using photoshop? In CS3, I go {edit}{convert to} and then choose sRGB. If you choose {assign} rather than convert to, you will get washed out colors, as you describe.

 

Dave