Choosing a Great Enlarger lens for 4x5

[keith_baker1]

Greetings,

I have a Bessler 45mx enlarger outfitted with an el-nikkor 135mm f5.6 enlarging lens (age unknown, even nikon couldn't tell me the age when I gave them the serial number). Anyhow, I did an experiment last night which showed that when the same negative is printed to the same size on paper, the image was sharper when made with my el-nikkor 50mm f2.8 elarging lens (which I normally use for 35mm) than with the 135mm lens. I could easily see the grain with the grain focuser when using the 50mm lens but it was not as sharp with the 135mm lens. I also found the shadows to be darker with the 135mm lens when all else (fstop, filter, time,size) was the same.

 

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I want advice on what type of lens would yield better results than the 135mm el-nikkor. I am considering buying a new enlarging lens for my 4x5 work (All black and white stuff) and want to buy an OUTSTANDING lens

 

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Thanks, Keith

[jim_galli4]

I have read for years that almost any "big three" enlarging lens could

far surpass in resolution what our film and papers limit us too. I'll

be watching this discussion to see how this develops out. I use

Schnieder Componon S 150 and Rodenstock 135 Rodagon interchangeably

and haven't questioned whether there was a "more" to be gained than

what film and paper were limiting me to. For 120 film I use a

Computar 90mm, now out of production. Good topic Keith.

[richard_ilomaki]

Keith:

 

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The 50 mm EL may in fact be "sharper" but you may well find edge fall-

off and edge sharpness suffer with any enlargements more than 8 x10

or so.

 

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Iwould like to know if you find that, as I have a so-so lens for 4x5

and would like to have someone else help with the testing.

 

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Cheers

[chauncey_l._walden]

Hi Keith, I think you've hit on the real requirement of lens

selection, testing. I went through this having rounded up a dozen

lenses from eBay and my local camera shops and using Ctein's (Post

Exposure) recommendation of using half-tone screens as images. The 135

EL-Nikkor and 135 Componon I tested lost out to the 135 Componon-S I

tested. The big surprise was the 150 EL-Nikkor which not only

performed beautifully but also covered 5x7. It appeared to be better

than my 180 APO-Rodagon, but I have remounted that one and will retest

it when I get a chance. There seems to be as much variation between

specimens of the same lens as between different brands so hands on

comparison is a must in my book if you want the best possible. All of

the lenses were "good" and users would have been happy with them -

some are just "better". Good luck.

[skygzr]

Hi Keith -

 

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You mentioned that you tested the two lenses at the same fstop. You

might try testing each lens at it's sharpest fstop, instead.

Stopping down from wide open eliminates some residual aberrations and

helps with depth of field, but it you go to far, diffraction rears

it's ugly head. Somewhere in the middle lies the sweet spot.

There's really no reason to expect that a 50mm f2.8 and a 135mm f5.6

(or any two lenses) would exhibit maximum sharpness at identical

apertures.

 

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I hate to admit this in public, but I used to stop my enlarger lenses

down to f32 and then wonder why my pictures looked like crud. Did I

mention diffraction?

 

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Good luck! - Kevin

[j._mose]

The Rodenstock APO Rodagon 150mm or Schneider APO Componon-HM 150mm

are considered the top performers for 4X5 format. Look at questions

from yesterday ("Need Comments on Schneider 150mm APO

Componon...")..Bob Solomon gave a technical response which justifies

APO lenses for black and white work. Good luck!

 

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J. P. Mose

[keith_baker1]

Kevin,

In response to the f-stop issue - you are right that 2 different lens

such as a 50/2.8 and 135/5.6 may not (likely will not) share the same

optimal f-stop re:sharpness. But, I choose f/11 for my experiment so

that the 135mm/5.6 lens would be favored (2 stops down from open) yet

it still under performed re:sharpness as compared to the 50 mm/2.8

lens (4 stops down from open)!

Keith

[paul_owen]

Keith, I would imagine that the "APO" versions of Schneider and

Rodenstock 150mm lenses would be the "ultimate" enlarger lens for

5x4. Yet most of us make do with "cheaper" versions. I use a mixture

of makes; 50mm f4 el-Nikkor (superb and very cheap), 80mm 5.6 el-

Nikkor (superb and very cheap), 100mm 5.6 Schneider componon S

(superb and very cheap) and a Rodenstock 150mm Rodagon (superb and

yes...very cheap). The reason I purchased a variety of makes is that

they were all bought as used lenses and at a fraction of the new

price. They all serve me well and I would recommend purchasing used

simply for the savings you will make. Rarely see used apo versions

though! If money is no object then get an apo, if it is then look for

a good used 150 from any of the big 3 (you may be able to get one

with a money back guarantee so if its a dog you can change it). IMHO

buying used is the way to go with darkroom kit!!

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi Keith

 

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Your testing is not really valid, a 50mm lens has to have the better

resolution because it has to make stronger enlargments from a 35mm neg

then a 135mm from a 4x5 inch neg!

The same difference you will also find with the taking lenses!

Sorry for that!

[bob_salomon2]

" I would imagine that the "APO" versions of Schneider and

Rodenstock 150mm lenses would be the "ultimate" enlarger

lens for 5x4. "

 

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Not necessarily.

 

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For mural enlargements (10 to 40X the size of the 45 original)

the G series is superior.

For prints from 2 to 15X the size of the 45 the Apo series is

superior.

 

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And, if you don't have enough room to make prints up to 15X the

WA series is the only choice. And the 120 WA is a superior lens.

 

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It depends on your requirements and the capabilities of your

equipment.

[renee_galang1]

I've noticed the difference between rodagon 80mm F4 and apo rodagon

90mm F4 with my mamiya 6 negatives using the same enlarger and

enlargement size (20x24)at the same apeture. But 2 years I've moved to

LF but still hasn't made any enlargement because well I haven't got an

enlarger and enlarging lens. Last week I bought a second hand cold

light enlarger in very good condition for US$150.00! But did not

include a lens, hence I am looking for the ultimate lens aswell. I am

thinking of buying an apo ronar 150mm F9. For enlargement and also

double-up as a camera lens. Is this shooting 2 birds with one stone

a good idea? Any comments out there will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advanced.

[carey_bird1]

Which version of the El-Nikkor 135mm do you have? I understand there

may be as many as three different versions of this lens, presumeably

each an improvement on the predecessor. You may be quite happy with

the latest version. In otyher words, it may not be appropriate to

compare an older model 135mm with a current 50mm lens.