Nikon FM2 and F100 user considering purchase of Leica M7

[arnold_franck]

Hi,

 

I currently have a Nikon FM2 and F100 with some very good lenses (MF

24mm f/2.8, AF-D 35mm f/2, MF 50mm f/1.8, AF-S 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 and

AF-D 80-200mm f/2.8) and flash SB-28.

 

I would like to buy a Leica M7 + Summicron 35mm, mainly to take

photographs of my kids (also for general photography).

 

But I sometimes think that a digital camera as the Nikon D70 might be

much more convenient and a much smarter decision since I'm already

well into the Nikon system.

 

I'm convinced that the digital technology is far from mature yet, but

on the other hand I think 35mm film is a dead end story.

 

Could you provide me several reasons for not buying the D70, but the

Leica M7 instead?

 

Anyhow I will keep my F100, 80-200mm and AF-S 24-85mm. I want to sell

the 24mm and 35mm and I might sell the FM2.

 

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[keithdunlop]

I am a user of both Nikon SLR's and Leica rangefinders. A manual focus rangefinder is probably the worst "kids" camera you could choose. The M7 is a much slower machine in use and not ideal for fast moving subjects, like kids. The addition of AE over the M6 helps speed things up a little, but you still have to focus and wind film, unless you shell out the big bucks for the winder. I love my Leica for shooting stationary subjects; travel, street shooting, low-light interiors, but I pull out my F5 for anything that moves. Just my opinion as a Leica user.

[will_woodford1]

I use an M6, primarily for kid pix.

 

There is nothing special about the M cameras for family snap shots; if I were in your shoes

I would get a D70 or FM3A.

 

I use the M6 for a few reasons (1) I love it as an object. (2) I love using it (3) I have it and

didn't need to buy it, it was a wedding gift from my wife

 

I also prefer manual focus and it's pretty easy to focus it. Autofocus does have it's

benefits for kid pictures, though.

 

One other thing: with some practice I have become pretty good at taking hand-held 1/8s

pictures with a 50mm lens, printed to 4x6. I haven't been able to do this with an SLR yet.

 

Finally, I doubt 35mm is a dead end story. If you really think it is, then why do you want

an M7 for snapshots? It just doesn't make sense.

[paul t]

If you're planning to use mostly the Summicron 35mm lens, you should check

out the <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/konhex.htm" >absolutely

brilliant Hexar AF</a>. It's a fraction of the cost, and you could perhaps buy

the D70, too...

[terry_rory]

I have gone from Nikon F80 and Leica CM compact to a D70 system and Bessa R3A with 50mm Summicron.

 

I think you will get the D70 (or other Nikon DSLR) eventually and have a fine collection of lenses with which to use it.

 

I think you will get the Leica M7/35mm Summicron as well. The question is... in which order?

 

The D70 is on the instant you switch it on and posesses very fast focus even in dim light (with the AF assist beacon switched off because I hate that red light!)

 

If you are wanting a 'normal' fast prime for the D70 remember that Sigma have the new 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM coming out in a few weeks which will be an ideal partner for capturing those childhood moments as they occur, in whatever light they occur and with an effective f/length of 45mm on the D70.

 

Depending on you having the correct (fast) film ready loaded in the M7, then this will also be a cracking outfit for getting the very same moments and getting the M7 first will give you the option of deciding whether your future digital route will be a rangefinder (Epson RD-1 or Zeiss Ikon digital maybe when it emerges) or a DSLR route.

[terry_rory]

A D70 shot at ISO 1600 and f/2 only because it is relevant to your question....

 

<center><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/3148969-md.jpg"></center>

[ben z]

"I'm convinced that the digital technology is far from mature yet, but on the other hand I think 35mm film is a dead end story.

 

Could you provide me several reasons for not buying the D70, but the Leica M7 instead? "

 

Seems to me, if you truly believe your first statement, you don't need any more reasons not to buy a D70, and if you truly believe your second statement, nothing anyone can say could convince you to buy an M7.

 

Since a D70 will cost you only 1/3 of an M7, if you truly believe both of your statements, you probably would feel safer buying the D70.

[arnold_franck]

To Ben Z:

 

It's a dilemma: digital is not mature yet, but it's more than good enough (especially the D70). I sincerely hope 35mm will be available for a very long time but no one knows. I also believe that the workflow with digital is much more time consuming than with film (e.g. post-processing in Photoshop).

 

A Nikon D70 will for sure be totally obsolete in a few years while the Leica M7 still will have the same value. A more expensive DSLR as the D2H(s) or D2X makes even less sense.

 

I definitely will keep the F100 and some lenses for fast moving subjects and difficult light situations.

 

I know it's comparing apples with oranges. I only would like to know what would be the smartest decision for spending my money.

 

I'm fond of the Leica M7 and I'm sure I would make nice pictures with it, but I also like the D70.

[beau 1664876222]

Sometimes I miss ol' grant. And where's Spirer?

[aizan_sasayama]

What Paul said. Nikon lenses turn the other way, so an AF solution would be most

natural.

[patricks]

Arnold,

 

your first decision point is if you want/are ready to go digital. Keep in mind that you need to invest in digital memory cards, image manipulation software, a good computer, back-up systems, perhaps a printer etc. If you believe digital is for you, then the M7 is out of the picture. If you don't want the hassle above, then figure out what 35mm film equipment you want to use.

 

You have a perfectly usable set of gear right now, how will spending $4K on a M7 + lens change your images?

 

I have kids and a Leica M is hardly a perfect tool for taking images of them. At times, you can capture truly wonderful images, low available light environmentals when they are playing wiht a pussle indoors etc. But for a lot of other situation you cannot beat a DSLR and blasting away.

 

Having said all of this, once in a blue moon you get it right, and the simple pleasure of using a M with some stellar glass and a humble film like Delta 100, Trix or even Fuji Reala 100 produces some excellent prints.

[andy m.]

Why don't you like the FM2? The M7 will give no improvement in image quality but will need a big financial outlay.<p>

 

<i>Could you provide me several reasons for not buying the D70, but the Leica M7 instead?</i><p>

 

IMO there aren't any, considering the 35mm gear you already own.

[johnmarkpainter]

Arnold,

 

With the way you are hesitating it would be crazy to get an M7 and a 35 Cron. Do you

really need AE? I personally think it is a bit silly to shoot a Leica in AE but that's just me (I

don't shoot my Nikons in AE either).

 

Consider getting a Bessa R2 or R3 (if you need AE) and a CV Ultron 35 1.7 (go to

www.cameraquest.com for info). You could get that combo for around $800 and see if

you like Rangefinder shooting.

 

All the D70 is going to do for you is to allow you to shoot more and see results quickly.

The Leica is a totally different animal.

 

jmp

[frank uhlig]

Save your money and take pictures with what you have got!

 

Maybe get the Nikon 35/2 AFD lens and shoot away with the F100 in auto P* mode and AF. There is nothing wrong with getting good pics that way! Good luck and do practice a lot.

[ben z]

"It's a dilemma: digital is not mature yet, but it's more than good enough (especially the D70)."

 

I'd rather take pictures _now_ with "more than good enough" than sit home waiting for digital to reach maturity, because when it does there'll no doubt be a new technology threatening to kill it just as digital is doing to "mature" film technology.

 

 

"I sincerely hope 35mm will be available for a very long time but no one knows."

 

I've got my hands full trying to do what I can so that _I_ am available for a long time, I can't worry about whether film makes it or not. If I go to buy film one day and there is no more, I'll switch to digital, it's that simple.

 

"I also believe that the workflow with digital is much more time consuming than with film (e.g. post-processing in Photoshop)."

 

I don't see that. If you drop your film off at a lab and pick up prints later, it's the same as dropping off a CF card and returning for the prints. If you're talking about Photoshopping and inkjet printing, then compare it to souping negs, enlarging, and developing prints in open trays. And home inkjet printing from negs is _a lot_ more time-consuming than from digital camera files, believe me! Scanning is an art and a science of daunting proportion, which I'm currently in the throes of learning.

 

"A Nikon D70 will for sure be totally obsolete in a few years while the Leica M7 still will have the same value."

 

If you buy that M7 new, it will lose more in value as you step out of the camera store, than a new D70.

 

 

"A more expensive DSLR as the D2H(s) or D2X makes even less sense."

"I only would like to know what would be the smartest decision for spending my money."

 

Then IMO whichever way you go, buy second-hand. A nice used M6 will run you $1800 less than a new M7. A Canon D60 will run you $1000 less than a 20D. A 1D will run you $2000 less than a 1DMkII, and a 1Ds will run you $4000 less than a 1DsMkII. If you can erase the notion from your mind that just because a new model has been released that the old model is "obsolete", you can stay one generation behind the curve and save a ton of money. Have you ever _seen_ a 20x30 blowup made by a skilled Photoshopper, with a 1st-generation 4MP Canon 1D? You really should, you would be amazed.

[sprouty]

<I>Could you provide me several reasons for not buying the D70, but the Leica M7 instead?</I>

<P>

You're mistaken if you think a manual focus camera with a small focus patch in the dead center will make it easier to <I>"mainly to take photographs of my kids"</I>

<P>

You have everything you need to take great photo's of your kids, sounds like you want a new toy and are fishing for a reason to tell your wife (insert smiley emoticon).

[Rob F.]

The 24mm f/2.8 Nikkor is a great lens. I would think twice about selling it. In fact, if I didn't already have one, I would buy yours! The 24/2.8AF is optically unchanged, though, if you were to go that route.

[Jerry_]

Have you looked at a Nikon FM3A body? It takes any of your current lenses -- and it has the same 'A' mode as a M7. A fewer $$$$s, too.

[skeeter]

"Will Woodford , mar 03, 2005; 03:13 p.m.

 

 

(3) I have it and didn't need to buy it, it was a wedding gift from my wife "

 

will, if you ever get divorced, i would like to meet your (ex)wife.

[stephen_w.]

Is buying anything Leica new a rational decision? My uncle got me hooked on Leicas even if he was taking "cheese" photos of us growing up. There are three main reasons that I use two Leica bodies and an assortment of lenses both Leica and not:

 

1. Compact, if not light, because I travel long-term extensively for my job. I take my MTN bike, as well; it's light (<23lbs), but when combined with it's hard case is not.

 

2. Guaranteed quality, technically, if I properly do my job.

 

3. I've always wanted one.

 

Yes, I do take tot (relatives) photos with the kit. They do, sometimes, slow down enough to take photos of them, especially when sleeping.

[scott_mcloughlin]

Oh, go and get an M7 and a 50/2. You won't regret it. The last, greatest film camera you'll ever need to buy. You can pass it down to your kids someday. I've taken tons of wonderful pics of my nephews and nieces with my M6TTL. Fill it full of TriX (or XP2 for less expensive processing) and go to town. Don't you just want fab B&W Leica snaps of the fam? Take the plunge. Don't look back.

 

A lifetime of D70's (or better upgrades) will be waiting for you whenever you want one.

 

Scott

[jsbc]

No question, if you just want the summmicron 35mm, you might as well get a Hexar AF.

 

Get that and a D70 and you are set - you'll be really equipped to take photos. You don't need a M7.

 

However, if that is all, most of us would not hang around the Leica forum. Once you get adapted to the rangefinder system, and the truly high quality shots Lecia lenses can make, the M-system can be your favoured system for some photo opportunites - snapshots, street, whatever.

 

I have all your lenses and cameras, (this is merely to say that I know what your current system's abilities and ergonomics) so I can say that for me at least, I prefer M-system for most cases (but not sports photos, or flash photos). Whether you like the M-system as much, or whether the cost is justified, is a judgement that only you can make.

[chris_chow]

1. It takes better pictures.

 

2. Its a legend.

 

3. Film will outlast me.

[Philip Freedman]

Hope you have tried rangefinders. Some people who are used to SLRs cannot get used to RFs. With an SLR the viewfinder is near enough WYSIWYG but that is by no means true of a RF. On the other hand the Leica is small and sturdy - may not be really sturdier than an FM3 but definitely tougher (so it feels) than a D70. Try to borrow a RF camera before spending all that money on the Leica and see if you like it. I have a Leica M6 and a Nikon D70 and now have the Epson RD-1 which is a digital RF which takes Leica M lenses. Currently I enjoy using the RD1 most (with the Leica 35mm f/2 asph. as a standard lens) but for occasional tele shots and flash (horror - only when unavoidable) I prefer the D70.

[jim_mcbride]

Just so this reply is not totally OT, I will reply that I own/use several Leica film RF cameras

and I wouldn't part with any of them. I even own/use a Leica digital camera of which I am

very fond. I do not, however, use the Leicas to take snapshots of kids, dogs, family

celebrations, etc. For such subjects, I use my film Nikons (sorry for the blasphemy) in

particular my Nikon FE2. I own/use a lot of cameras. It's a matter of individual personal

choice. Only you can make such choices.